Sartarites and moon rune.

[Jape_Vicho]

This strikes me as a question that many people may have asked themselves but i couldn't find any direct answer in the books nor online, but maybe I missed something.

I'm going to start running a fan-made campaign in which all characters are sartarite children, and despite that they cannot use magic in account of not being yet innitiated in any cult, I made them choose the runes so they could hint at the character's personality, and two of them said they wanted to have a tertiary affinity with the moon. At first, I plainly forbade it, as I thought that the moon rune wasn't even accepted as a real elemental rune by anyone besides the lunars, so I believed that affinity impossible. But then I realized that the pre-gen character Vassana has a SECONDARY affinity with the moon rune, and that broke my schemes. If Vassana and his lore can be considered "canon", and I don't know why would the developers make the most important pre-gen character to break the universe rules, then the orlanthi CAN have an affinity with the moon, so insted of asking myself if it is possible, I started thinking, "How would an orlanthi react to being linked by soul to the moon?". As far as I know, sartarites not only hate the moon for representing the empire that murdered thousands of their brothers and occupied their country, they hate it most because for them it represents the intention to murder Orlanth, it represents the next coming of chaos; for them, the Shepelkirt is just the new face of Wakboth. Knowing this, wouldn't a sartarite who is touched by the moon feel (or even be treated as) touched by chaos? Wouldn't he hate himself? This is at least, how I have interpreted the lore.

So, I ask for your opinions, and your corrections, as I'm only a newcomer to the world of Glorantha. How do you think the orlanthi treat the individual rune affinity with the moon? How have you treated this in your games? I appreciate any story that involves the topic.

[soltakss]

If you think in basic terms "Air/Storm Good, Moon Bad", then Sartarites won't have the Moon Rune.

However, there are many examples where individuals, or even whole clans, are Moon-supporters. Having the Moon Rune for them is fine.

Also, the Red Moon is the Chaos Moon, because the Red Goddess accepts Chaos. The Blue Moon and White Moon do not have the same association to Chaos, so might be acceptable.

Mystics might have a connection to the Moon Rune, as the Moon of Balance.

"Nobody can make us do anything" is a familiar Orlanthi saying. that includes giving up the Moon Rune.

An "Orlanthi All" is said to be 85%, so when we say All Orlanthi cannot have the Moon Rune, we are saying that 15% can.

 

[Nick Brooke]

21 minutes ago, Jape_Vicho said:

So, I ask for your opinions, and your corrections, as I'm only a newcomer to the world of Glorantha. How do you think the orlanthi treat the individual rune affinity with the moon? How have you treated this in your games? I appreciate any story that involves the topic.

I am willing to bet that King Argrath Dragonspear, the Sartarite leader in the Hero Wars, has a strong Moon Rune affinity. We know he recruits many Lunars into his court (eg: the Fazzurites inc. Fazzursons), establishes the Sartar Magical Union as a counterbalance to the Lunar College of Magic, founds the Temple of the Reaching Storm, and rules over previously Lunarised clans and tribes in Sartar, the Far Point, Lunar Tarsh and parts of the Holy Country. I think trying to kill him or his allies for having a Moon Rune affinity would be a dangerous game. That said, I'm sure some rebel assholes are crazy enough to try it. Don't be that guy, is my advice. We know how Argrath treats assassins with no respect for life...

[Nick Brooke]

When the Rebel Gods conspired to murder the Emperor, one of the conspirators appears to have been the bat-winged assassin goddess of the Blue Moon, Annilla (who the Dara Happans knew as Mahaquata). She blinded mighty Yelm (or possibly his mortal son Murharzarm) with her wings, so that Orlanth could strike the killing blow with the Sword that is Death (or with his Thunderbolt). All clear as mud, right? That's why heroquesters need to get the hang of identity challenges, as I was saying elsewhere this morning.

tl/dr: you can make a good case that Orlanth couldn't have killed Yelm without help from the Moon Goddess.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

"How would an orlanthi react to being linked by soul to the moon?"

I think you need to separate the Moon part of the soul from the Moon as "evil empire/evil presence in the world".

I don't think any Sartarite is going around thinking "oh, that person has a Moon Rune affinity, kill them!"

The Moon affinity in the soul is what it says on p.49.  Their personality inclines to "seek spiritual liberation from the bondage of fear and ignorance", they tend to have more affinity towards magic, and, given the association with the inner eye, may be more inward-looking.  A Sartarite will see such a person and think "Oh, they know how to channel and use magic well! They know how to speak to the gods, and may make a good priestess."

From a player perspective, we see Moon Rune.  From a character perspective, they see magically powerful and perceptive.

[moonwolf8]

Among the Torkani Tribe and among troll friend clans I think that most with a Moon affinity would turn to Anilla, if the clan also tolerates the Lunars then Jakaleel the Witch is also a possibility.  If the clan has a history of animosity with the Grazelanders or the Animal Nomads then those with a Moon affinity might be encouraged to join Chaghatishi Moon-Bow.

In clans that are more hostile to the Lunar empire those with a Moon affinity are likely to be fostered out to relatives in more Lunar tolerant clans.

[Austin]

It's been a while since I read the Sky appendix to the Guide. How close or far apart, conceptually, are moons and planets in Glorantha? The main moons I'm aware of are all ones the Heortlings don't have an awful lot to do with—Anilla, Sedenya/Shepelkirt, the White Moon, etc.—but could there be minor moons which they do venerate, in some small way?

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Crel said:

It's been a while since I read the Sky appendix to the Guide. How close or far apart, conceptually, are moons and planets in Glorantha? The main moons I'm aware of are all ones the Heortlings don't have an awful lot to do with—Anilla, Sedenya/Shepelkirt, the White Moon, etc.—but could there be minor moons which they do venerate, in some small way?

That was my first question on a lore auction by Greg. "What makes a celestial body a moon?"

Moons appear to be planetary bodies that are female and exhibit some form of cyclical behavior.

Artia has been called a moon in some older sources. Entekos was "proven" not to be the celestial body of the moon goddess. Emilla (female Mastakos as worshiped by the Zaranistangi) might be a moon, Mastakos or Uleria aren't. The Bronze Treasure is among the Lunar spirit family in Prax, even though the planetary body is Tolat/Shargash/Jagrekriand.

Chermata (Lokarnos) was one of the Three Sky Witches of Pamaltelan celestiology, along with Enjata Mo (Black Entekos) and Veldara. Veldara is the Blue Moon.

Lightfore appears never to be a moon. Neither Orlanth's Ring (the Sky Bear), except when ridden by the Goddess.

[Austin]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Moons appear to be planetary bodies that are female and exhibit some form of cyclical behavior.

That feels like it makes sense. So if you wanted, you could introduce a new minor moon with Heortling connections, or maybe which a few clans/tribes worship. I could see a Moon Captain equivalent of the Star Captains being an interesting path to explore in that regard. Or perhaps a star* which circles Polaris/Rigsdal, and is associated with him.

*Star in the "that bright thing up there" sense.

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Crel said:

That feels like it makes sense. So if you wanted, you could introduce a new minor moon with Heortling connections, or maybe which a few clans/tribes worship. I could see a Moon Captain equivalent of the Star Captains being an interesting path to explore in that regard. Or perhaps a star* which circles Polaris/Rigsdal, and is associated with him.

*Star in the "that bright thing up there" sense.

Regular stars are affixed to the sky dome, which rotates around the axis marked by the Pole Star. Such a star could still vary in brightness or color throughout the year, or other cycles.

We have a list of 100 stellar bodies coming from the Dara Happans, Plentonsius' Perfect Sky, which includes planetary bodies and unusual stars like Orlanth's Ring.

The list of constellations in the Sky appendix in the Guide names others, and gives alternative names, like e.g. Arkat for the constellation that shows in the map as Doves. It also talks about lesser stars of unstable visibilty or blinking.

The "Eleven Lights" quest shows that the number of objects visible in the Night Sky (or for the Starseers of Yuthuppa also in the day sky)  may depend on interaction with the Otherworld. Thus it is possible to awaken new or lost ones which have escaped previous notice. The Boat Planet (Dormal, Diros, possibly Waertag)  is one such object.

Finally, there may be Lunar objects around the Red Moon - the pointer Darinex (the Lunar landmark equivalent o the Pole Star, at its lower pole) and the orbiting shadow Destix (causing the phases), and possibly orbiters.

[Qizilbashwoman]

The only reason anti-Lunars worry about the Moon rune is that there is a thousand-trumpet glory empire based on Lunar magic beckoning their children, and that empire is hand-in-hand with Chaos and conquering them.

The Moon rune isn't naughty, but the non-Lunar Moon rune gods and lore of the Theyalans is sort of nonexistent and the Lunar Empire, which is naughty, is right there.