Cult spirits of Daka Fal

[Manu]

Daka Fal has 'command Cult Spirits' as a spell. What are the cult spirits of Daka Fal? ancestors? Why does he need this? He shouldn't command ancestors...

[metcalph]

14 minutes ago, Manu said:

Daka Fal has 'command Cult Spirits' as a spell. What are the cult spirits of Daka Fal? ancestors? Why does he need this? He shouldn't command ancestors...

Cults of Prax had summoned ancestors with various degrees of friendliness (Friend, Neutral, Malign and Evil).  I presume Command Cult Spirit would be cast on the Malign and Evil ancestors in the same way you beat up your little brother to compel respect.

[g33k]

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

... in the same way you beat up your little brother to compel respect.

Or at least get him to do what you say...

[Thaz]

Check out the Rune Magic Spells for DF. Summon Ancestor. This gives you the tables you need. And then if it aint friendly or neutral command comes in handy. Also with various combo's of spirit matrix etc. DF has a LOT of powerful interactions between Rune and Spirit Magic and by using both you get maximised results

 

[davecake]

A big theme we've seen in play is that while there is nothing intrinsically wrong with Ancestor Worship/Daka Fal, that it also makes quite a comfortable fit for families that don't want to be too bound by authority or even a particular ethical code. Daka Fal helps you survive, and doesn't judge what you need to do to survive too much. If you want to have a family that is a bit dubious, at least to the point that the impests would trouble them if they were Orlanthi (which can be anywhere from just being very independent and not wanting to give other members of the community too much say over them, to being a bit workshy or a dabbling in dubious trades or even con artists or thieves, through to being effectively crime gangs), ancestor worship works - hey, some of your ancestors probably did the same thing, they aren't going to judge, whatever you have to do for the family. And in such an environment, plain unpleasant selfish people can often thrive, nothing about the tradition being very family oriented means that family can't be dysfunctional, creepy or abusive.

It does explain why sometimes you need to be wary of your own ancestors. And maybe not want them to be uncontrolled. 

In some cases, this can go through to outright evil ancestors - not only can you can be a murderous brigand or such and still be an Ancestor worshipper in good standing as long as your ancestors are fine with it, you can worship other fairly nasty gods as well. Black Fang worshippers probably claim to be ancestor worshippers if anyone gets nosy, and quite likely are. Cannibal Cultists in Prax. The family might have an ongoing, even intergenerational, agreement with some nasty spirits or minor deities that they invoke against their enemies. Or even a bloodline of ogres. 

And it gets weirder, and potentially quite creepy, if there are families that are both Ancestor Worshippers and also practice sorcery, which is unlikely to happen in Central Genertela or the West, but might be the case in Fonrit or Kralorela. 

 

[GAZZA]

Also, "he shouldn't command ancestors" is presumably based on the idea that the ancestors are deserving of respect. Would this not be the case for the cult spirits of pretty much any god - even elementals? Isn't any air elemental just a child of Umath, and essentially brother to Orlanth? (Of course the same arguments apply as to why you should nonetheless need Command Cult Spirit - just pointing out that Daka Fal isn't necessarily special here).

[Jokum]

Cult spirits (by the rule book) come with a variation based on the cult size: larger has more variation than smaller ones. 

"Petty deities, elementals, guardians, spirits of worshippers and other such entities" p.273

Also the places for the spell casting seem to vary. Summon cult spirit works in the holy places while the other summons could be cast anywhere.

Where would Daka Fal's holy places lie? Burial grounds, battle grounds, ancient family living places, current family home or even places in the Spiritworld?

I suppose DF cult spirits would be at least the spirits of worshippers(ancestors?), but what else? Id like to know.

[Akhôrahil]

On 5/4/2020 at 9:14 AM, GAZZA said:

Also, "he shouldn't command ancestors" is presumably based on the idea that the ancestors are deserving of respect. Would this not be the case for the cult spirits of pretty much any god - even elementals? Isn't any air elemental just a child of Umath, and essentially brother to Orlanth? (Of course the same arguments apply as to why you should nonetheless need Command Cult Spirit - just pointing out that Daka Fal isn't necessarily special here).

Basic elementals are basically mindless, though - it's okay to command them (for reasonable tasks), just as it's okay and not disrespectful to command an animal.

Abusing them would not be okay.

[David Scott]

3 hours ago, Jokum said:

Cult spirits (by the rule book) come with a variation based on the cult size: larger has more variation than smaller ones. 

"Petty deities, elementals, guardians, spirits of worshippers and other such entities" p.273

3 hours ago, Jokum said:

I suppose DF cult spirits would be at least the spirits of worshippers(ancestors?), but what else? Id like to know.

Just to clarify form the upcoming cults book - "All ancestral spirits are effectively cult spirits."

Daka Fal doesn't have any other - no spirit of retrebution or allied spirits. The shaman-priest does of course have a fetch.

3 hours ago, Jokum said:

Also the places for the spell casting seem to vary. Summon cult spirit works in the holy places while the other summons could be cast anywhere.

Anywhere the shaman says is right. I recommend casting Sanctify then Axis Mundi inside it.

3 hours ago, Jokum said:

Where would Daka Fal's holy places lie? Burial grounds, battle grounds, ancient family living places, current family home or even places in the Spiritworld?

Anywhere considered appropriate to the ancestors concerned. In the Wastes he has a known holy spot - Daka's Creek (see the Guide) an entrance to the Underworld.

Don't forget that Ancestor worship cults are made by reskinning Daka Fal - Votank for example is the Daka Fal cult with an emphasis on Votank (see Griffin Mountain)

 

[Jokum]

17 hours ago, David Scott said:

Just to clarify form the upcoming cults book - "All ancestral spirits are effectively cult spirits."

Daka Fal doesn't have any other - no spirit of retrebution or allied spirits. The shaman-priest does of course have a fetch.

 

 

Thank you for this clarification, but how should the summon cult spirit spell be handled versus summon ancestor?

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Jokum said:

Thank you for this clarification, but how should the summon cult spirit spell be handled versus summon ancestor?

I wouldn't use Summon cult spirit, just because it's a common rune spell, doesn't mean every cult has a use for it. Lots of cults have specialist summon spells instead of Summon cult spirit. In this case Daka Fal's 1 point version is Summon ancestor, the two stackable associates: Summon Spirit Teacher & Summon Specific Ancestor are the 2 point versions (stacked with Summon ancestor) and the 3pt is Incarnate Ancestor.

Edited April 30, 2021 by David Scott