Trance-spells and thrown weapons

[Brootse]

Does the Axe Trance allow the use of throwing axes too in your Glorantha? And does the Sword Trance allow the use of all of Humakt's cult weapons? Since RQG hasn't yet listed Humakt's cult weapons, I'm using RQ3's list which includes also throwing knives.

[soltakss]

In my games, Yes and Yes.

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, Brootse said:

Does the Axe Trance allow the use of throwing axes too in your Glorantha? And does the Sword Trance allow the use of all of Humakt's cult weapons? Since RQG hasn't yet listed Humakt's cult weapons, I'm using RQ3's list which includes also throwing knives.

Interesting question - at first glance my instinctive answer would be "1. Yes they are axes, and 2. No they are not swords". However on second thoughts that's really just a quirk of our language, and translating the rules into another real-world language might lead to entirely the opposite pair of first-glance answers (or some really awkward wording to attempt to preserve the English implications of the spell name).

So the answers should either be "No and No", or "Yes and Yes".

I'd certainly allow it to allow thrown swords. No skill in thrown sword? Well, 5% base plus modifier plus however much you can get your Sword Trance to give you will have to do...

As to whether it should be tied to cult weapon lists, that's less clear. I can see with Humakt that the weapon list is going to have a strong tie to the Death Rune, the primal sword, so if thrown daggers are strong in their Death Rune As Sword correspondence, then fine.

Edited May 11, 2020 by PhilHibbs

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Brootse said:

Since RQG hasn't yet listed Humakt's cult weapons

From the upcoming Cults of Glorantha (surprise!):

Quote

“Cult weapons” are defined as all one-handed and two-handed swords, shortswords, daggers, thrown daggers, and rapiers.

[Lordabdul]

3 hours ago, Brootse said:

Does the Axe Trance allow the use of throwing axes too in your Glorantha?

FUCK YES.

Although we need a spell or enchantment to recall the axe.... (see below)

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by lordabdul

[g33k]

17 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

FUCK YES.

  Hide contents

LANGUAGE!

</Cap>

 

 

But I can't quite make out the details on that one... Is it a Boomeraxe, or an Axerang?

 

[Brootse]

5 minutes ago, g33k said:

LANGUAGE!

</Cap>

 

 

But I can't quite make out the details on that one... Is it a Boomeraxe, or an Axerang?

 

It looks like an ok boomeraxe.

[French Desperate WindChild]

In my view no :

In transe you are your axe, you do what you can to keep your axe operational more and more, until the end of the spell

 So if you throw your axe, your axe is no more usefull, you are no more your axe.

 

but it is just my opinion.

[Lordabdul]

54 minutes ago, g33k said:

Is it a Boomeraxe, or an Axerang?

Boomeraxe. An Axerang is this, here below  

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Very good question!  I would tend to say no, because Arrow Trance (if I recall correctly) does not let you use attack with your bow in melee.  No melee at all, you must **shoot** arrows. Nor does it give you +lotso% with your Bow attack and parry.

Therefore, by analogy, Axe and Sword Trance force you to attack in melee with your weapon. No missile fire. And no +lotso% to your thrown weapons.

[g33k]

5 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Boomeraxe. An Axerang is this, here below  

 

TYVM

 

 

(

<sigh.  I shoulda known this would come back to bite me.>

)

[g33k]

56 minutes ago, Brootse said:

It looks like an ok boomeraxe.

I don't think you get to wield that one if you're more than 24 years old ...

 

 

Obviously, YGWV.

[Lordabdul]

5 minutes ago, g33k said:

I shoulda known this would come back

Yes, that's how boomeraxes work

Edited May 11, 2020 by lordabdul

[Lordabdul]

Back to the OP, I would say that it's OK to throw an axe or a dagger, but:

• If you have another axe or blade on you, you must then draw it and keep hacking at enemies with it.
• If you don't have any other axe or blade on you, or if you don't want to draw them, the spell ends prematurely... or maybe you can't do anything except going to recover the thrown axe/blade from the (hopefully) fallen enemy (which might be a dangerous proposition as you need to walk over to the corpse while everybody else attacks you)

Edited May 11, 2020 by lordabdul

[g33k]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Interesting question - at first glance my instinctive answer would be "1. Yes they are axes, and 2. No they are not swords". However on second thoughts that's really just a quirk of our language, and translating the rules into another real-world language might lead to entirely the opposite pair of first-glance answers (or some really awkward wording to attempt to preserve the English implications of the spell name).

So the answers should either be "No and No", or "Yes and Yes".

I'd certainly allow it to allow thrown swords. No skill in thrown sword? Well, 5% base plus modifier plus however much you can get your Sword Trance to give you will have to do...

As to whether it should be tied to cult weapon lists, that's less clear. I can see with Humakt that the weapon list is going to have a strong tie to the Death Rune, the primal sword, so if thrown daggers are strong in their Death Rune As Sword correspondence, then fine.

I'm decidedly of two minds on this.

On the one hand... 

This is Glorantha, dammitall, where the myths MATTER.

Humakt isn't the grim God of Juggler's Toys.

Death is a broadsword, a utilitarian killing-tool, a Rune become metal, made out of Death Metal <insert obligatory xref to Morbid Angel, Slayer, etc>.

Babeester Gor was born of dire and bloody need, and wielded the Earth Axe, the archetypal Labrys, to defend her Mother.

She wasn't some forester out cutting wood, etc.  That'd be a different myth... maybe also a cool myth, but different.  And the myths matter!

===

OTOH ...

There is the Rule of Cool, and MGF, that both suggest it's better to allow -- maybe even to encourage! -- these sorts of variations.

 

[Brootse]

24 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Back to the OP, I would say that it's OK to throw an axe or a dagger, but:

• If you have another axe or blade on you, you must then draw it and keep hacking at enemies with it.
• If you don't have any other axe or blade on you, or if you don't want to draw them, the spell ends prematurely... or maybe you can't do anything except going to recover the thrown axe/blade from the (hopefully) fallen enemy (which might be a dangerous proposition as you need to walk over to the corpse while everybody else attacks you)

Good ideas! I think that I'll use them.

[g33k]

6 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

• ... the spell ends prematurely... or maybe you can't do anything until you've recovered the thrown axe/blade from the (hopefully) fallen enemy.

I think that -- If I allow the throwing -- I'd require the following:

1. there is no OTHER way to attack a relevant target with your weapon -- melee if possible, even if your "preferred" target (e.g. a BBEG, or an archer, or a caster, or etc) is out of reach.

2. the PC has some reasonable knowledge of a way to quickly re-arm themselves with a relevant (Trance-enhance'able) weapon:  a backup weapon still worn, a nearby battle-spoil from the fallen, a duel in a weapon-smith's shop with a burned donkey and a teeter-tottering cart, etc.

3. it's not a "cheap out" from your Sacred Trance because (outside of Trance) it'd be convenient to end the Trance early.

 

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

it's not a "cheap out" from your Sacred Trance because (outside of Trance) it'd be convenient to end the Trance early.

Good point, a PC might start doing this gimmick where they always kill the last enemy by throwing the axe at them, just so they can end the trance early and have all their wits back immediately after the combat. I would say that you can easily throw a wrench into that kind of abuse, by adding a second wave of attack a minute later, forcing the PC to cast a second trance spell.  Otherwise, just remove that option -- if they throw the axe, the only action they can take afterwards is to shamble, crazy-eyed, towards where the axe landed, or draw a second axe.

Edited May 11, 2020 by lordabdul

[French Desperate WindChild]

the transe expects you to use your weapon until the end of the fight.

If the transe is on a bow you can use the bow to fire lot of arrows, but you keep in hand your bow (the focus of the transe)

In my view, when you are under axe transe because you are focused on your axe, you are the slave of your axe, you are the protector of your axe, you are the axe.

Then you cannot leave the axe, you cannot throw an axe.

Edited May 12, 2020 by French Desperate WindChild

[Brootse]

11 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Good point, a PC might start doing this gimmick where they always kill the last enemy by throwing the axe at them, just so they can end the trance early and have all their wits back immediately after the combat. I would say that you can easily throw a wrench into that kind of abuse, by adding a second wave of attack a minute later, forcing the PC to cast a second trance spell.  Otherwise, just remove that option -- if they throw the axe, the only action they can take afterwards is to shamble, crazy-eyed, towards where the axe landed, or draw a second axe.

Probably no other spells have had as much discussion and opinions about them on the forum as the trance spells.

Here's an official answer about their length and when you can end them:

So throwing your axe/sword away could be seen as a good way to end the spell before the duration runs out. And you could also ask for a will check (POW) or concentration check (INT).

Edited May 12, 2020 by Brootse