Question about the Harmony spell

[GAZZA]

The Harmony Rune Magic spell is basically an aura that, for anyone within it (presumably excluding the caster), "keeps them from getting violent". Does that mean it's legal for someone to cast Harmony, roll 01-05 on the resistance table (sufficient to overcome any POW), and then walk up and wail on the Crimson Bat without fear of retaliation? It doesn't say anything about the caster having to refrain from violence.

I suspect that it is supposed to imply that, but perhaps I am wrong?

 

[Richard S.]

It doesn't work on Rune levels, and I'd hazard a guess that the Bat is far above that rank

[GAZZA]

11 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

It doesn't work on Rune levels, and I'd hazard a guess that the Bat is far above that rank

Why not? Nothing in the special description that says it doesn't work on Rune levels, as far as I can see.

I mean, probably the Bat has some sort of Shield or Countermagic effect, whatever, but the point is that RAW you can absolutely cast Harmony and then belt the living snot out of your unable-to-retatliate opponents. (They can try and Dispel or whatever, but they cannot get violent). Very potent for a 1 point spell, and there are plenty of ways for non-Chalana Arroy casters to get it. (But as I say, I suspect that it's supposed to end if the caster initiates violence, which would bring it into line).

[Richard S.]

2 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

Why not? Nothing in the special description that says it doesn't work on Rune levels, as far as I can see.

It doesn't? Whoops, I think I was remembering City Harmony or something else similar. It does say you need to overcome the target's POW on the resistance table, which again pretty much makes the Bat immune.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, GAZZA said:

The Harmony Rune Magic spell is basically an aura that, for anyone within it (presumably excluding the caster), "keeps them from getting violent". Does that mean it's legal for someone to cast Harmony, roll 01-05 on the resistance table (sufficient to overcome any POW), and then walk up and wail on the Crimson Bat without fear of retaliation? It doesn't say anything about the caster having to refrain from violence.

Runequest Bestiary p188 "Magic Absorption: The Bat absorbs all magic, spirits, Runes, or sorcery, cast at it".  

Bat goes GULP!

[GAZZA]

40 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Runequest Bestiary p188 "Magic Absorption: The Bat absorbs all magic, spirits, Runes, or sorcery, cast at it".  

Bat goes GULP!

But you don't cast Harmony on the Bat; you cast it on yourself (as I say, it's an "aura" spell. The Bat doesn't absorb spells etc. in a radius, only spells directly targeted at it.

However if it makes the point clearer ignore the specific example of the Bat - I'm more generally suggesting that Harmony allows you to beat the snot out of anyone without retaliation (or at least, not violent retaliation), which I very much doubt was intended.

Edited May 23, 2020 by GAZZA

[metcalph]

1 minute ago, GAZZA said:

Which makes the Crimson Bat a bad example, but the general question remains.

The only cult that grants the Harmony spell is the non-violent Chalana Arroy.  

[GAZZA]

1 minute ago, metcalph said:

The only cult that grants the Harmony spell is the non-violent Chalana Arroy.  

Or an Issaries that casts Spell Trading, or anyone with a matrix that has it...

Though I will grant you that this is an alternative to how it is supposed to work; you could easily argue that CA matrix enchanters put appropriate conditions on it, and that they won't trade it.

The main issue (and why it came up) is that it used to be the spirit magic spell Harmonise and therefore conversions (such as one of the Tusk Riders in Borderlands) are a bit weird. (Harmonise was far less powerful).

I think you've convinced me though; I might just make the matrix that the Tusk Rider has something else.

Edited May 23, 2020 by GAZZA

[metcalph]

3 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

Or an Issaries that casts Spell Trading, 

Spell-Trading requires consent of various cults to differing degrees (see the spell description RQG p340).  Hence I strongly doubt that Chalana Arroy would just trade the spell.

3 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

The main issue (and why it came up) is that it used to be the spirit magic spell Harmonise

RQ2 Harmonise merely made the victim duplicate the actions of the caster or (in the case of a Jack-O'Bear) freeze the victim.  The spell that made people give up violence is either City Harmony in the case of Pavis (Not described in the RQG rules) or Peace in the case of the Three Bean Circus and Eiritha (RQG p336)

 

[GAZZA]

1 minute ago, metcalph said:

RQ2 Harmonise merely made the victim duplicate the actions of the caster or (in the case of a Jack-O'Bear) freeze the victim.  The spell that made people give up violence is either City Harmony in the case of Pavis (Not described in the RQG rules) or Peace in the case of the Three Bean Circus and Eiritha (RQG p336)

I don't disagree mate, but that's what the RQG conversion guide says ("Harmonise is now the Rune spell Harmony"). You're certainly fair to say that letting CA priests distribute Harmony matrices far and wide, or Spell Trading it, is probably out of order.

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, GAZZA said:

But you don't cast Harmony on the Bat; you cast it on yourself (as I say, it's an "aura" spell. The Bat doesn't absorb spells etc. in a radius, only spells directly targeted at it.

However if it makes the point clearer ignore the specific example of the Bat - I'm more generally suggesting that Harmony allows you to beat the snot out of anyone without retaliation (or at least, not violent retaliation), which I very much doubt was intended.

You are quite welcome to cast harmony and then go and meet the Crimson Bat. Tell us what happens afterwards, if you can.

6 hours ago, GAZZA said:

The Harmony Rune Magic spell is basically an aura that, for anyone within it (presumably excluding the caster), "keeps them from getting violent". Does that mean it's legal for someone to cast Harmony, roll 01-05 on the resistance table (sufficient to overcome any POW), and then walk up and wail on the Crimson Bat without fear of retaliation? It doesn't say anything about the caster having to refrain from violence.

I suspect that it is supposed to imply that, but perhaps I am wrong?

The spell description says:

Quote

This stackable spell affects anyone within 3 meters of the caster and keeps them from getting violent. It counteracts emotion-affecting spells (such as Fanaticism and Demoralize) that are weaker than the Harmony spell. Each Rune point added to the spell adds 3 meters to the radius of effect. 
Harmony can be boosted with magic points to overcome more powerful emotion-affecting spells (such as Berserk) and to blast through Countermagic and other defensive spells.
To work, the caster must roll D100 and compare the result on the resistance table to their own POW. All targets whose POW would be overcome are affected. For example, if a caster with a 12 POW rolled 52, all potential targets with an 11 or lower POW are affected.

So, rolling 01-05 means that it affects everyone in range of the spell, assuming it has blasted through their Countermagic.

As to the Crimson bat, as Peter says, it absorbs all magic cast at it. You could argue that it is an area effect spell, so isn't cast at the target, but, as far as I am concerned, if it has to overcome POW to have an effect then it is effectively cast at the target.

6 hours ago, Richard S. said:

It doesn't work on Rune levels, and I'd hazard a guess that the Bat is far above that rank

Not according to the description.

In our old RQ2 days, Allied Spirits with high POW cast Harmony, to force people to stop fighting. Anyone still fighting was then hit by Sleep spells.

[David Scott]

10 hours ago, GAZZA said:

The Harmony Rune Magic spell is basically an aura that, for anyone within it (presumably excluding the caster), "keeps them from getting violent".

Does that mean it's legal for someone to cast Harmony, roll 01-05 on the resistance table (sufficient to overcome any POW), and then walk up and wail on the Crimson Bat without fear of retaliation? It doesn't say anything about the caster having to refrain from violence.

I suspect that it is supposed to imply that, but perhaps I am wrong?

The example illustrates its working. It's not actually matching a specific POW vs POW, just generally indicating who is affected beneath the required success. So a Chalana Arroy priestess casts Harmony with let's say a POW of 18.

For example, if a caster with a 18 POW rolled 05, all potential targets with an 28 or lower POW are affected (within 3m)

Realistically you'd need stack 27 rune points with it to avoid the max range eye spit and hope it has less than 28 POW that day. Assuming all of that, now the Bat is calm and won't attack you. Realising it's another smart arsed high powered healer, the High Priest banks the bat away out of range and drops a few ticks to keep the healer occupied.

[GAZZA]

Yeah I agree it's fine if it's a CA only spell. It's only the "Harmonise from RQ2 becomes the Harmony Rune spell" bit that threw me.

[GAZZA]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

You are quite welcome to cast harmony and then go and meet the Crimson Bat. Tell us what happens afterwards, if you can.

Yeah I need to stop using the Bat as an example.

[PhilHibbs]

13 hours ago, Richard S. said:

It doesn't? Whoops, I think I was remembering City Harmony or something else similar.

You're thinking of Peace.