Stormbringer action economy!

[smiorgan]

When we played Stormbringer back in the day we played fast and loose with the rules. I don't think we ever played it RAW. We almost immediately added stuff from RuneQuest and CoC upon habits that were formed by playing Basic D&D.  When we switched to Elric! we started to play a little bit closer to the actual rules. Now, in a different age of the world I have greater appreciaction for clear rulesets that can be played and enjoyed as written. So, I set to look at the anatomy of a round in Stormbringer (1-4), which is significantly different than the one found in Elric!/ Stormbringer 5.

Here is what I was able to distill from the close reading of the rules. It seems quite interesting and playable. I'm interested in learning whether it matches your own reading of the rules and how you actually play the game.

More than anything I'm interested in checking something that is not written in the rules but seems clearly implied and necessary to make them work. Namely, that there is no move followed by attack in the same round: if you engage as a result of your movement you attack in the next resolution phase, i.e. the following round. This is completely different than Elric! 

STORMBRINGER ACTION ECONOMY DISTILLED FROM THE RULES 
A round is about 12 seconds if you really want to measure it.

1. Declaration of intent 
Method 1: GM and players alternate
Method 2: reverse DEX order.

2. Resolution of Missiles and Melee
In DEX order
-5 DEX if you draw/change weapon or perform a similar simple action before melee 

3. Movement of non-engaged figures and appearance of conjured elementals and demons
Full movement is nominally 30 m in normally chaotic melee conditions (obstacles, people, weapons in hand). If running freely in an empty field up to double this figure.  Narratively, full movement corresponds to «You can move to any desired location on the battle scene, but maybe less if commonsense suggests otherwise» (cf. Stormbringer p. 36). 
If you were engaged and disengaged (by dodging or defeating your enemy) in phase 2, then you may move half your normal movement.
If you did anything else apart from moving around (e.g. picking up a dropped weapon) you may move half your normal movement.
Demons and elementals appear at this time and do not move. 
The most important implication of these rules: if you engage as a result of your movement you attack in the next resolution phase, i.e. the following round.
 

    

[Lloyd Dupont]

The movement and attack thing is difficult, it penalise faster character. You move first to engage, but you can't strike, while your opponent can...

What I do... when you move, your initiative is halved. Not because of a "penalty" for moving, but simply because time has elapsed... You can then engage at half your DEX. Further you enemy doesn't strike you first, time has elapsed for it too. So if it wants to fight you immediately (with melee weapon), its initiative against you is also halved.

 

[Questbird]

8 hours ago, smiorgan said:

More than anything I'm interested in checking something that is not written in the rules but seems clearly implied and necessary to make them work. Namely, that there is no move followed by attack in the same round: if you engage as a result of your movement you attack in the next resolution phase, i.e. the following round. This is completely different than Elric! 

STORMBRINGER ACTION ECONOMY DISTILLED FROM THE RULES 
A round is about 12 seconds if you really want to measure it.

1. Declaration of intent 
Method 1: GM and players alternate
Method 2: reverse DEX order.

   

I always forgot about the declaration of intent in reverse DEX order but that is a good idea. It means if you are fast you can see what the opponent is doing and react to it. Although most of my fights were 'he attacks you' or 'he runs away' so the intent didn't vary much.

It's an interesting point about moving in combat too, which I certainly never noticed.

[smiorgan]

7 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

The movement and attack thing is difficult, it penalise faster character. You move first to engage, but you can't strike, while your opponent can...

 

That was my first impression as well and it's wrong. When you move to engage you are in phase 3 and your opponent's attack is already gone in phase 2. What happens is that you move within melee reach and the actual exchange of blows will be in phase 2 next round. If your dex is higher you will attack first the next round.

The story with missile weapons is also interesting. Round 1. Grokk of Org DEX 7 declares he is charging to engage Sharilla of the Dancing Mist DEX 18. Sharilla, who - having greater DEX - declares afterward, wisely choses to fire at him with her bow.  She fires in phase 2 at DEX 13 (18-5), wounding Grokk. In phase 3 Grokk closes in. End of the round. In round 2 Grokk declares he is hitting at Sharilla with his axe. The Myrrhyn woman declares that she is dropping the bow and unsheating her barbed dagger. In phase 2, Sharilla attacks at DEX 13 with the dagger going past his failed parry and hitting Grokk badly for a major wound. Grokk staggers and falls to the ground before completing his planned charge on Sharilla.

So I'd say DEX is the queen of stats also with this system...

     

Edited May 27, 2020 by smiorgan

[NickMiddleton]

14 hours ago, Questbird said:

I always forgot about the declaration of intent in reverse DEX order but that is a good idea. It means if you are fast you can see what the opponent is doing and react to it. Although most of my fights were 'he attacks you' or 'he runs away' so the intent didn't vary much.

For much of the time when running BRP and using a statement of intent phase, I've used "Declare in order from lowest INT to Highest INT, then resolve in DEX rank from Highest to Lowest" - so the SMARTEST person gets to plan their action knowing what everyone else is planning, but the resolution is based on who reacts fastest... In more recent years (well, decade or so...) I've tended to have a more general accounting of Reflexes and situational awareness.

Quote

It's an interesting point about moving in combat too, which I certainly never noticed.

Chaot's Smiorgan's post was quite an eye opener - I ran a LOT of SB1-3 in the 1980's / early 90's but I'd forgotten the details of the original action economy completely!

RQ (and other) systems of the same era were big on the "adhesiveness" of combatants, that moving around in melee was NOT easy... the pendulum has swung in the intervening years so that 's generally seen as a bad design goal - frankly, my (now somewhat rusty) HEMA experience has always lead to me to feel otherwise in  general, but in a game like Stormbringer, what would bother me most about implementing the RAW now is accommodating things like "bull rushing" an opponent e.g. off a  walkway...

Cheers,

Nick 

Edited May 27, 2020 by NickMiddleton
*sigh* mis-attribution of original post cos I'm an idiot!

[smiorgan]

3 hours ago, NickMiddleton said:

Chaot's post was quite an I opener -

...

Stormbringer, what would bother me most about implementing the RAW now is accommodating things like "bull rushing" an opponent e.g. off a  walkway.

Hi!

I'm not Chaot, but thanks if you meant my post!

Yes, I guess that kind of move does not work well with the round structure as written. There is no obvious way to deal with it.

Generally speaking, Stormbringer 1-4 lacks rules for many specific cases and explicitly advocates an approach where the GM makes commonsense rulings.

If I were to decide right now, I'd try to make no exception to Stormbringer's round structure and roll the STR vs SIZ in the resolution phase on the following round. We don't have to assume that there is a break in continuous action between rounds.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by smiorgan