Where to begin?

[creativehum]

With new art, I think you said Nick? Drawn from the recent RQG works?

[Nick Brooke]

1 minute ago, creativehum said:

With new art, I think you said Nick? Drawn from the recent RQG works?

No, this will be a Jonstown Compendium title, and we can't simply reuse art from any of Chaosium's books (believe me, I asked).

So I've reached out to Simon Bray, one of the best Gloranthan artists, and greatly look forward to seeing what he comes up with.

[Sir_Godspeed]

22 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

(shrug)

You can have different Aeolians (and Seshnelans) if you want: show us all what you came up with. The Puma People still exist, not that anyone cares (Greg wrote their Voices, and I'm not going to erase them). I don't have a dog in any of these Sartarite name fights (Greg originally had Sheriffs and Eorls in Sartar, but if we've moved beyond that, that's cool). Please, share your revisions. I've never seen any, and I'm preparing the 2020 edition now.

I apologize if I've touched on something sensitive, I was just trying to give an earnest summary of the differences with the free Vocies pamphlet I've read, and how Genertela is presented in the Guide and how Jeff tends to present it here on the board. I'm not implying that other visions are invalid (how could they be, with YGWV?). 

- Aeolians, along with other Malkioni have been changed in nomenclature and art depiction to be less medieval European. The Malkioni religion has become less an collective worship community (Aeolian community worship is now basically just Orlanthi religion) and more a social order and philosophical cosmology behind that social order, largely only fully explored by the Wizards themselves. I believe the title saint is not used anymore. I'm not sure if the overt French phonemes are still used or not. 

- I've got nothing against the Puma people, I just haven't seen a mention of them anywhere in the Guide or elsewhere. I may very well be wildly wrong. I think they're cool, but I'm not the one writing stuff for Chaosium, obvs. 

- As I mentioned, Chaosium is moving away from some of the Anglo-Saxon (and wider Germanic) titles for Orlanthi society. So no more carls, cottars, thanes and so forth in future Chaosium publications, it seems. Some people like it, some people don't. I was just trying to relay that to the person who asked. 

I'm sure there's more, and I am again not trying to imply that people who disagree with these changes are "wrong", but that's my impression of Chaosium's perspective and policy on Gloranthan publications going forward, which is what I gathered @creativehum was first and foremost wondering about.

[David Scott]

On 6/5/2020 at 8:01 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

The Panther people (?) don't exist anymore

Puma people are include here for reference: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/issaries/heroquest-voices/

They are not part of the updated document, but you can use them in your Glorantha.

[creativehum]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I am not trying to imply that people who disagree with these changes are "wrong", but that's my impression of Chaosium's perspective and policy on Gloranthan publications going forward, which is what I gathered @creativehum was first and foremost wondering about.

That's what I was wondering about.

[Nick Brooke]

7 hours ago, David Scott said:

Puma people are include here for reference: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/issaries/heroquest-voices/

They are not part of the updated document, but you can use them in your Glorantha.

To be clear, David is talking about a different “updated document.”

[Nick Brooke]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:32 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

I apologize if I've touched on something sensitive

No apology needed. I’m just surprised at people who would rather have nothing to support gaming in particular parts of the lozenge. It strongly reminds me of the Elmal bollocks, when zealots mistakenly tried to bin Sun County, replacing it with... bugger all, frankly.

On 6/9/2020 at 9:32 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'm sure there's more, and I am again not trying to imply that people who disagree with these changes are "wrong", but that's my impression of Chaosium's perspective and policy on Gloranthan publications going forward, which is what I gathered @creativehum was first and foremost wondering about.

Jonstown Compendium titles are unofficial and non-canonical. They don’t reflect Chaosium’s direction, policy or strategy. And I’m not going to bin years of my writing on someone else’s say-so. If you have your own version of the Malkioni West, bully for you... and why not share it? I honestly don’t care if you think my material is “wrong” because I occasionally say ‘sheriff,’ or my Lunars don’t look Bronze Age enough for the archaeological purists.

This joyful embrace of the memory hole, this willingness to conform to the ipse dixits du jour and agree that we have always been at war with Eurasia, is disconcerting to an historian. But it’s your problem, not mine. I’ve still got the good old stuff, and I’m happy to share it around.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Nick Brooke

[Nick Brooke]

15 hours ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

If i were to try and "sell" my group on playing runequest glorantha, what adventure do you all think would be the best to cut out teeth on?

The QuickStart scenario (The Broken Tower) is good, and you can get it free from Chaosium’s website. I started my own RQG campaign with the Smoking Ruin, followed immediately by the Dragon of Thunder Hills: we got about three good sessions’ gaming out of each.

(I didn’t use the other two scenarios from the GM Screen Pack, but that’s because most of my players are old RQ hands and already know how the combat system and tribal setup work: while those scenarios are great for training wheels, I wanted to dive into the lore-heavy stuff)

[Lordabdul]

I really second The Broken Tower as an inexpensive way to dip a group's toe in RQG. If they don't like it, you haven't spent a lot of money (or even no money if you used the free PDF version), and it doesn't take space on the shelves... You may just potentially want to get the rulebook if you'd rather they made their own character instead of using the pre-gens... but otherwise, it's such a great scenario: it's short, it establishes a bunch of basic tropes and lore about RQ Glorantha, features spirits and magic prominently to really show that this is not like another stereotypical fantasy setting, and last but not least has what everyone loves: cows!

Edited June 10, 2020 by lordabdul

[g33k]

+1 for the Broken Tower Quickstart!

However, I'll offer two caveats:

1. Before play, transcribe the pre-gen PC's from the module onto official/real character sheets; the presentation in the module is graphically lovely, but a nightmare as user-reference tools at the gaming table.  My players were universal in reporting this, and I've seen the sentiment echoed by other GM's.
2. In the climactic scene, going for a straight combat is a likely TPK scenario.  The BigBad has a huge number of minions, and the BigBad (all by herself) stands a decent chance to wipe the floor with the party (particularly a charge-into-combat-then-fight-to-the-death party).  Not an automatic/guaranteed TPK -- there could be some luck of the dice that sway that, and/or clever strategies and tactics -- but it's certainly one of the likely options.

Neither one is an insurmountable issue, by any means!  But each is something to be aware of, and address ahead of time.

[Sir_Godspeed]

7 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Jonstown Compendium titles are unofficial and non-canonical. They don’t reflect Chaosium’s direction, policy or strategy. And I’m not going to bin years of my writing on someone else’s say-so. If you have your own version of the Malkioni West, bully for you... and why not share it? I honestly don’t care if you think my material is “wrong” because I occasionally say ‘sheriff,’ or my Lunars don’t look Bronze Age enough for the archaeological purists.

This joyful embrace of the memory hole, this willingness to conform to the ipse dixits du jour and agree that we have always been at war with Eurasia, is disconcerting to an historian. But it’s your problem, not mine. I’ve still got the good old stuff, and I’m happy to share it around.

This is a generic hypothetical "you" and not me specifically, right?

[Nick Brooke]

35 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

This is a generic hypothetical "you" and not me specifically, right?

Sure.

[creativehum]

I've notice a some people on these forums come into a thread swinging, as if plucked from the middle of a battle they were fighting decades ago, not paying attention to what people are typing on the thread but translating everything they read into a new assault, and end up making ad hominem attacks and incoherent arguments.

I chalk it up to Glorantha Fandom PTSD and try to be patient.

Anyway, I for one like this thread to get back to the part where we talk about how to begin.

Edited June 10, 2020 by creativehum

[creativehum]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

+1 for the Broken Tower Quickstart!

However, I'll offer two caveats:

1. Before play, transcribe the pre-gen PC's from the module onto official/real character sheets; the presentation in the module is graphically lovely, but a nightmare as user-reference tools at the gaming table.  My players were universal in reporting this, and I've seen the sentiment echoed by other GM's.

I did exactly this when I ran The Broken Tower for my friends. Though I went a little bit broader than that, also printing out the specific spells each character had, what their respective runes meant, and so on, so everyone could glance down and understand what their character could do.

Overall it was a great success.(The combats got a bit bumpy as we were learning it on the fly.)

The thing that impressed me the most was how invested my players were with the fictional details. We played it as a one shot at a convention, but the group (after negotiating successfully with Idrimal) started making plans to hold the lands with the help of their new ally against the Greydogs and so on. They were extending the implications of the scenario past the scenario and investing in the world itself. 

So not only is it a good introduction to the rules and the setting, but it is also (and I did not realize this before I ran it) a solid start to getting a campaign running. There are conflicts in motion within the scenario that extend beyond the scenario.

Edited June 10, 2020 by creativehum

[g33k]

1 hour ago, creativehum said:

... printing out the specific spells each character had ...

In hindsight, this is obvious, and I wish I had done it!

 

1 hour ago, creativehum said:

... what their respective runes meant ...

Oh yeah -- absolutely.  For newbies, I like to make a 1-page Rune Reference Sheet, and just have 2-3 of those circulating at the table.  People often like to know not just their own Runes, but also what the runes mean that they see tattooed onto NPC's, inscribed onto shrines, etched into blades, etc etc etc.

 

1 hour ago, creativehum said:

...

The thing that impressed me the most was how invested my players were with the fictional details. We played it as a one shot at a convention, but the group (after negotiating successfully with Idrimal) started making plans to hold the lands with the help of their new ally against the Greydogs and so on. They were extending the implications of the scenario past the scenario and investing in the world itself. 

So not only is it a good introduction to the rules and the setting, but it is also (and I did not realize this before I ran it) a solid start to getting a campaign running. There are conflicts in motion within the scenario that extend beyond the scenario.

My players reported that they really liked the Rune-based personality traits, the Passions -- their characters felt much more "real" than many pre-gen PCs.

I see a fair number of reports of players working to leverage Idrima, invest long-term in the scenario's outcomes / implications... up to and including launching a cult to her, becoming her priestess!

 

[creativehum]

48 minutes ago, g33k said:

In hindsight, this is obvious, and I wish I had done it!

Admittedly, I went a little nuts and built each player a little booklet for each of the pregens. Here is the Harmast as an example. Some people who saw them said, "That's way too much! My players would balk at having that much info!" But my players seemed fine with it and appreciated having everything at their fingertips for what is, let's face it, a kind of complicated game.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Scotty

[g33k]

39 minutes ago, creativehum said:

Admittedly, I went a little nuts and built each player a little booklet for each of the pregens. Here is the Harmast as an example. Some people who saw them said, "That's way too much! My players would balk at having that much info!" But my players seemed fine with it and appreciated having everything at their fingertips for what is, let's face it, a kind of complicated game.

I like that; though I'd have put the more traditional character-sheet-ish elements more upfront, like pp 16/15/17 as pp 3/4/5 (bumping the rest of the sheet downward).

Edited June 10, 2020 by Scotty

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, creativehum said:

So not only is it a good introduction to the rules and the setting, but it is also (and I did not realize this before I ran it) a solid start to getting a campaign running. There are conflicts in motion within the scenario that extend beyond the scenario.

Oh yeah definitely. I GM'ed this for my group, as their first exposure to RQ and Glorantha (except for some of them having played Khan of Khans ). When they reached the old ruins, they managed to drive Danakos out of hiding after a little bit of cat-and-mouse ambushes, and Vasana's player trampled him with her bison. There was much cheering from the other players, who had never really played any game where "I trampled the bad guy with a bison" was even a thing you could say. Then, Idrima came out of the tower, and they got super freaked out... but the Yanioth's player remembered my little Earth priestess primer at the beginning of the adventure, and stepped forth to start negotiating. The adventure ended after they agreed to start a Spirit Cult of the Stone Woman, with Yanioth as the priestess maintaining the shrine there... in exchange for worship, Idrima would teach some old spirit magic spells to the PCs, and tentatively let the clan expand their lands this way, which would give them a strategic point to keep an eye on the Grey Dogs... so yes, a couple nice adventure seeds to continue with!

[David Scott]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:53 PM, creativehum said:

Can anyone open this up a bit? (Just the other day I was wondering, "How have the HeroQuest Voices changed over the years?")

• From what version to what version? 
• Retcooned in what way?

You can pore over the minutiae yourself:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/issaries/heroquest-voices/what-the-priests-say-and-what-my-father-told-me/

[creativehum]

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

You can pore over the minutiae yourself:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/issaries/heroquest-voices/what-the-priests-say-and-what-my-father-told-me/

Thank you so much!

As a nerdy-amateur-RPG-archeologist this is exactly what I was looking for!

And @Sir_Godspeed thank you for your efforts as well!

Edited June 10, 2020 by creativehum

[Tlalchitonatiuh]

I wanted to thank everyone for their replies. I have now ordered the Runequest Glorantha slipcase, glorantha sourcebook, quickstart, and guide to glorantha sets. I have a great deal of reading to do, but I'm very excited to dive whole hog into this glorious world.  Thank you all for your help!

[Nevermet]

1 hour ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

I wanted to thank everyone for their replies. I have now ordered the Runequest Glorantha slipcase, glorantha sourcebook, quickstart, and guide to glorantha sets. I have a great deal of reading to do, but I'm very excited to dive whole hog into this glorious world.  Thank you all for your help!

I look forward to reading your reactions to the Sourcebook & Guide.

And if your username means you're bringing some Mesoamerican mythic perspectives to the forum, I'm even more excited to see you  

[Crel]

6 hours ago, Tlalchitonatiuh said:

I have now ordered the Runequest Glorantha slipcase, glorantha sourcebook, quickstart, and guide to glorantha sets. I have a great deal of reading to do, but I'm very excited to dive whole hog into this glorious world

Whoo, that is a stack of stuff. Good luck to ya!

[CharloixBrooKiller]

I found this topic very interesting in light of my long interesting in Glorantha and RQ.  I've largely been away for decades but seriously wonder how 1) people build 'authentic' RQ campaigns and 2) 'learn' Glorantha' history these days.

Let me explain.  I was fortunate to be part of RQ when it was created.  Because our campaigns existed before the timelines and especially details like Pavis/Prax, etc. were FIRMLY set we had a lot more flexibility in our campaigns yet able to be realitively authentic.   In those days, must Gloranthan mythos was still being established, then revised, etc.  ALl of which fit Greg's vision of myth as opposed to a rigid fixed line of history.

Yet I wonder how RQ GMs and players 'play' in Pavis knowing the cradle is coming, etc.  I'd think it hard to run campaigns and manage to stay 'authentic' yet unfettered by major events that you know WILL appear.

Sort of like why the early Star War movies (chronologically) are awful. YOu know Skywalker will become Vader.

 

[Runeblogger]

49 minutes ago, CharloixBrooKiller said:

I found this topic very interesting in light of my long interesting in Glorantha and RQ.  I've largely been away for decades but seriously wonder how 1) people build 'authentic' RQ campaigns and 2) 'learn' Glorantha' history these days.

Let me explain.  I was fortunate to be part of RQ when it was created.  Because our campaigns existed before the timelines and especially details like Pavis/Prax, etc. were FIRMLY set we had a lot more flexibility in our campaigns yet able to be realitively authentic.   In those days, must Gloranthan mythos was still being established, then revised, etc.  ALl of which fit Greg's vision of myth as opposed to a rigid fixed line of history.

Yet I wonder how RQ GMs and players 'play' in Pavis knowing the cradle is coming, etc.  I'd think it hard to run campaigns and manage to stay 'authentic' yet unfettered by major events that you know WILL appear.

Sort of like why the early Star War movies (chronologically) are awful. YOu know Skywalker will become Vader.

 

You can decide to not feel overwhelmed by "all that needs to happen" or "all the authenticity that I need to infuse in my campaign". The authentic Glorantha will be whatever happens during your games. So for example, you can read The Glorantha Sourcebook and just use whatever ideas you find cool for your games. If the text says that something big happens in 1626 but your campaign isn't ready for it yet, then just delay it to next year. That's what I do, anyway.