How do characters earn money?

[mikuel]

I've just started the campaign 6 Seasons in Sartar and my players will be finishing initiation and will become adults.  They will probably want better stuff, like armor and weapons.  How would they get money to buy that stuff?  They live in an isolated village where there is not really an economy.  The only way I can think of at the moment is by cattle raiding and selling the cows.  What else can they do?

[Dissolv]

My players are hitting this exact problem and they are pretty annoyed with it.  I'm pretty sure that they are going to go out into the wilder world to fix it.  My next session is going to include a set of potential tasks to undertake for cash (from nearby Jonstown), which also include a caravan travel option or two. 

Basically I am treating the home clan as a "cradle" for adventuring, but they price of the many benefits (free healing, ransom, tribal support) is a barter and favor economy. 

[Leingod]

I would probably handle it by playing up the fact that it's a "favors for favors" economy within one's own clan. Your characters want arms and armor? Then they should talk to either the chief or the redsmith, and they'll get a hook-up in exchange for doing some job or mission that turns into whatever quest the GM wants to give them. Maybe the clan's redsmith will let you each take a single weapon of your choice from his stock in exchange for investigating a shipment of bronze that was supposed to come in for him that's running really late, and that leads into some adventure? Something like that.

Or if they really want the experience of buying and selling, there is a local market, small as it is. Send them on quests as above, give them valuables that they can't really use as rewards, and they can turn around and sell it whenever the merchant's around. You could justify him having a better stock than a merchant would typically have when passing through some village by saying he's on his way to Boldhome or Jonstown or wherever, or maybe have them accompany him as guards so they can buy what they're looking for there and make a bit of extra cash in the process.

[Rob Darvall]

1 hour ago, mikuel said:

 They will probably want better stuff, like armor and weapons.  How would they get money to buy that stuff?  They live in an isolated village where there is not really an economy. 

There is definitely an economy, just not a cash economy. A barter and favor economy as Dissolv says. The price lists were for the benefit of Pavis games and the like where you are running semi-murder hobos in the outdoor dungeon with associated mercantile village.

Some potential armour getting:

Inheritance. you get a few bits and pieces from the household. Particularly a strong hat and spear so you can participate in the Fyrd.

Fyrd service. Outstanding service merits rewards from your chief. Possibly woad, protection spells, or armour. Also remembering that their mothers may well have protective spells. I'm damn sure I'd cast them on my kids before battle.

Loot. Take it from your enemies. Six Seasons has a bunch of those.

Finding old stuff in odd places. Everything from a couple of flint arrow heads to EWF harness. 

Make the getting part of play.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Dissolv said:

Basically I am treating the home clan as a "cradle" for adventuring, but they price of the many benefits (free healing, ransom, tribal support) is a barter and favor economy. 

Yep that's how I would do it too. After their adulthood rites, the PCs are sent to work by the clan chieftains... or more probably by the thanes or somebody down the chain of power, as they're not important enough yet to be managed by the clan ring directly (although there's probably a clan ring-issued directive to put the new adults to good use right away after the initiations are finished). They would get equipment for whatever task that is.

Looking at some fancy/mentor NPC, with his/her nice looking armour and fancy Rune-covered shield and weapon, and thinking "oh my how do I get this stuff" is pretty much part of the coming of age story. It's very much appropriate for the players to be longing for it, but not for them to get it right away. Instead they would get second-hand gear for whatever task they're instructed to do first... maybe a shitty 1H Axe to feel safer while they're herding cows out on the hill. Ideally, the adventures will increase in danger just as they increase in gear... and better gear will be given to them as they prove themselves, or as they find it themselves.

There's also the fact that they would be looking at becoming Initiates of a cult or other, and they would get gear from these temples, possibly. Asking the local Priest if they have anything the PCs can help with (and thus getting that NPC to give them a mission) will probably be rewarded with extra gear and spells and such.

Thinking about buying gear with actual coins, and getting paid in coins, sounds a lot like Lunar brainwashing...

Edited June 5, 2020 by lordabdul

[Squaredeal Sten]

Mikuel, 

It's an orientation thing.  No, not their sexual; orientation.  You've got to orient them, like freshman orientation in college. 

If they were D&D players their expectation may be that every goblin has a pot of gold and after two adventures of slaughtering 10 goblins each in an encounter,  they're running around in plate armor. 

It's just not so in Glorantha: The broos don't have anything you want to keep (you can let someone take something from a broo and then get a disease, that's a shocker) , the wage rate is low, and you may get paid in cows or in teaching.  Steel plate armor has not been invented.   Orient them on these facts early: it's a different world.  Check out Duke Raus' wage rate in Borderlands.   https://www.chaosium.com/borderlands-pdf/

I suggest you give your players starting adventures in which the difficulty is scaled to their capabilities and number.  They start out with a spear, shield, and leather or maybe a linothorax.   A bow if they are Prax nomads, or whatever fits their book background.      Maybe in the first adventure instead of killing ten goblins and an orc apiece, since it's Glorantha five of them kill one broo and two other broos run away.

They sign on for an adventure and may or may not get paid in (A) a share of the loot, which may be a sword or a hauberk. (B) valuables.  Like a sword or a helmet, or skill or spell teaching.  Their motivation for undertaking these things will be the social relationships they never worried about in D&D.: Like their clan needs something done, or their temple.  As a bonus they may get valuables as well.   When they get some experience they may be worth hiring as  caravan guards.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Snork]

3 hours ago, mikuel said:

I've just started the campaign 6 Seasons in Sartar and my players will be finishing initiation and will become adults.  They will probably want better stuff, like armor and weapons.  How would they get money to buy that stuff?  They live in an isolated village where there is not really an economy.  The only way I can think of at the moment is by cattle raiding and selling the cows.  What else can they do?

Cattle raids are usually done with permission of the clan ring. The cattle are then given to the clan. Some will usually be given back.

They get better stuff by adventuring or doing tasks for the clan.

Sartar has a vibrant economy just not cash based.

The players need to know that they're not in Kansas anymore.

Finally YGWV

[Thaz]

Whats the issue? They get the same as everyone else at start and then they are either earning their professional wage or loot from adventures or both.

The major source of income they may have missed out on :- ransom. 

Bad Guys should try and surrender and not fight to the death and offer their Ransom (Broo and Tusk Riders notsomuch). So if your players are jonsing for cash or better kit this is how they get it. 

And yes if they start standing out from the crowd and being the regular trouble shooters for the Clan they can expect the Clan to invest in their equipment or for individual craftspeople to make gifts of better weapons and armour. "You did a great service to us all bringing the herd back after it was raided, my children will not go hungry in Dark Season due to you and your friends. So I made this shield to replace the one that looked a bit shabby" 

 

 

[David Scott]

5 hours ago, mikuel said:

I've just started the campaign 6 Seasons in Sartar and my players will be finishing initiation and will become adults.  They will probably want better stuff, like armor and weapons.  How would they get money to buy that stuff?  They live in an isolated village where there is not really an economy.  The only way I can think of at the moment is by cattle raiding and selling the cows.  What else can they do?

I can't comment on the adventure, but the current rules set is geared to one adventure per season of no more than three weeks (page 422). Their income is covered in the between adventures section. For example those who are warriors:

Quote

A warrior’s income is not subject to any Harvest result modifiers. A warrior in the service of another (such as a king or captain) need not pay for their Standard of Living—that is the responsibility of their liege.

The battle skill isn't just fighting. It's also the ability to lead others. They will be patrolling the bounds, escorting the chief to tribal meets, etc. They'd get better equipment by asking their boss whoever that is (role-play).

As for other occupations, look at the occupational skills in the Occupation Income. This shows what they will be doing in their downtime. Don't forget to add in temple service as well that may have opportunities for "extra" income.

Basically you have three weeks only to become rich per season or they will have to ultimately leave their village and become "freelancers" or mercenaries. Join Argrath, and go to war, and loot. The traditional RPG trope for this is the Murder-Hobo 🙂

An alternative is to become the community leaders, using others work to bolster your income - so you'd be the chief, the priests, rune lords, etc.

As a side story, in the 90s David Hall was running his Lismelder campaign, parts of which appeared in Tales of the Reaching Moon. While all the players were spending their well earned loot on armour and weapons, one of them, Branduin spent his on cows. Why? because it made him wealthy, in a society where power comes from holdings, cows are an important wealth marker. Branduin was destined to become chief.

[Akhôrahil]

6 hours ago, Dissolv said:

My players are hitting this exact problem and they are pretty annoyed with it.

I'm sure that state of mind is widely shared with youths in Orlanthi society!

[Thaz]

To answer the OP.  Raid, take prisoners, go on adventures, explore that spooky old ruin for loot, ambush those stinky <insert other tribe here> for equipment, hire out as guards to that passing caravan. Make stuff and take it to the town to sell. 

 

[Aprewett]

Isn’t that take it too the town to barter for more cows and grain.

 I was going to write ‘ducks’ but thought that might be offensive...

Edited June 5, 2020 by Aprewett

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, Thaz said:

To answer the OP.  Raid, take prisoners, go on adventures, explore that spooky old ruin for loot, ambush those stinky <insert other tribe here> for equipment, hire out as guards to that passing caravan. Make stuff and take it to the town to sell. 

 

only if they decide to go in adventure.

As young initiates they cannot imply the clan in such activities.. Well they can and should then be bannished or something like that. Maybe the clan (the GM) is feuding another one.  All adults may join the war party and the PCcan try to show how important they are for the clan then obtain as reward better stuff.

arg saddly you are born in a peacefull clan ... go to learn how to give better pasture to the cows then I will give you better ... sandals ?

[Kloster]

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

I can't comment on the adventure, but the current rules set is geared to one adventure per season of no more than three weeks (page 422).

I think this is part of the problem. 1 adventure, whatever it's duration, and all the remaining time taken by 'normal life'.

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Basically you have three weeks only to become rich per season or they will have to ultimately leave their village and become "freelancers" or mercenaries. Join Argrath, and go to war, and loot.

I think this would have been a far better way to describe the path the new game is geared to. If you go over those 3 weeks, you lose part or all of your income, and in the end, you lose resources and status.

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Their income is covered in the between adventures section.

This is part of the economy abstraction, and this is a great rule that remove (part of) the economical micromanagement.

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

An alternative is to become the community leaders, using others work to bolster your income - so you'd be the chief, the priests, rune lords, etc.

Completely agree on that point.

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

As a side story, in the 90s David Hall was running his Lismelder campaign, parts of which appeared in Tales of the Reaching Moon. While all the players were spending their well earned loot on armour and weapons, one of them, Branduin spent his on cows. Why? because it made him wealthy, in a society where power comes from holdings, cows are an important wealth marker. Branduin was destined to become chief.

Nice story. I like it.

[Lordabdul]

10 hours ago, David Scott said:

As a side story, in the 90s David Hall was running his Lismelder campaign, parts of which appeared in Tales of the Reaching Moon. While all the players were spending their well earned loot on armour and weapons, one of them, Branduin spent his on cows. Why? because it made him wealthy, in a society where power comes from holdings, cows are an important wealth marker. Branduin was destined to become chief.

This reminds me that, after having GMed a WFRP 4e game recently, I would love to see WFRP-like options in the upcoming GM Guide for seasonal character advancement between adventures. That is: right now RQG gives out rules for 2 things: rolling your occupation skill to get money, and doing some training. I'd love to have some other rules for "focusing" on other things during the season, like gaining or reinforcing bonds with NPCs and factions, doing some long-term crafting or commissioning something from someone else, making investments, doing research, etc. (I think actually the "research" part will be in the GM Sourcebook for Lhankor Mhy sages studying books, if I recall correctly?). All of those things can be done fairly easily in an ad-hoc way between the GM and the player, of course, but, well, the GM Guide is supposed to provide guidelines and advice so it would fit well... and I like the idea of having a lightweight "endeavour economy" between adventures to limit how many things the character can do in that time span, so it also fits a couple optional rules.  Bonus points for random event tables, too, because hey who doesn't like random tables?

11 hours ago, Thaz said:

The major source of income they may have missed out on :- ransom. 

Good idea yeah, although up to a degree. I figure that if they take it upon themselves to go and kidnap someone to get ransom, pretty soon they will get in trouble from both the opposing clan and their own clan ring, who might not appreciate them stirring trouble with the neighbours. If however they catch the neighbours fair and square nosing around, the PCs' clan elders will probably give them a more or less generous cut of the ransom -- and they might have to get involved with the negotiations, to add a bit of political  adventuring between the exploration/combat chapters. Plot twist: they might gain an NPC sidekick who needs to pay off their ransom debt for a while.

Edited June 5, 2020 by lordabdul

[Qizilbashwoman]

Mouseguard and similar style games like Ryuutama run things by season; Torchbearer distinguishes phases as well, dungeoneering versus town life. These have different rules and different skillsets. Typically in some phases you gain one kind of currency (gold; raw ore, meat, fish, food; plunder; looted items) and spend reserves from settlements (clothing, weaponry, spices, healing, etc.) and use certain kinds of skills like survival and fighting; in another phase, you trade your other currency for the equivalent of lunars, smithwork, repair, new clothing, rest and real sleep, time with temples, etc. and use skills like diplomacy, debauchery, and so forth.

Mouseguard actually has multiple seasons with multiple goals but you get the idea. It's like a regular change in venue: there's different kinds of currency and different kinds of safety. Many Orlanthis lean to spending their time in the first kind of world, Esrolians and Lunars/Solars the second.

[mikuel]

Thanks, this gives me some ideas.  I've not been brainwashed by Lunars, but 20 some years of Dungeons & Dragons. It kind of sounds like the players can be proactive in getting what they want and not rely of freebie stuff from me. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by mikuel

[tnli]

You could as well take some D&D -like adventures, like the Snakepipe Hollow (available for pretty much every version of RQ except the RQG) and let them roam that. Plenty of loot available. 

[Thaz]

22 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

only if they decide to go in adventure.

As young initiates they cannot imply the clan in such activities.. Well they can and should then be banished or something like that. Maybe the clan (the GM) is feuding another one.  All adults may join the war party and the PCcan try to show how important they are for the clan then obtain as reward better stuff.

arg saddly you are born in a peacefull clan ... go to learn how to give better pasture to the cows then I will give you better ... sandals ?

Well if the players decide not to go on adventures and settle down then they are farmers and not adventurers and shouldnt be complaining about the lack of "Phat Lootz". I mean dont get me wrong it's entirely valid and I'd happily GM that campaign. However RQG is about adventure in Glorantha and is not Farmer the RPG.

Secondly I think your understanding of how much young Air/Movement Rune clanspeople obey they're elders and dont go and get themselves into trouble on occasion is wildly different than mine. We're talking about Orlanthi here right? Plus our PC's are standout's. They're better and more powerful than your average person. Of course when the Clan calls the fyrd together to deal with a raid or broo or some mystery they are some of the people the Clan Ring is most likely to send to sort this out. Every played King of Dragon Pass? You dont send the Clan Ring but you do send capable types. Possibly with an eye for them taking a seat on the ring when the time comes. You need to nuture talent. Even a peaceful tribe needs it's warriors and scouts and problem solvers. 

For another example check out 'Crimson Petals' and many other adventures in Pegasus' where players are sent to solve problems. (I mention this adventure 'cos Diana and I wrote it with exactly this sort of thing in mind.)

 

[Ned]

Their initiation into adulthood is a big deal - as well as a big feast and new status, I believe they'll get clan tattoos, the benefits of clan Rune magic, the clan wyter, and possible lay membership of another cult.

If you want to give them a bit of loot, but in a culturally rooted way, then perhaps at the feast they're also gifted a weapon or piece of armour (or item suited to their parental occupation, with potential fun use in adventure) by their family or the clan chief. Or they get their heirloom (if you've not given it during charcter creation).

Using their parental occupation income level to determine the quality of what they're given might sow useful envy or competition between characters - eg. it drives the poor farmer's daughter character to adventure, cos she wants an ornate dagger like the redsmith's son character. Or she decides to wait for an opportunity to take it..

[Thaz]

3 minutes ago, Ned said:

If you want to give them a bit of loot, but in a culturally rooted way, then perhaps at the feast they're also gifted a weapon or piece of armour (or item suited to their parental occupation, with potential fun use in adventure) by their family or the clan chief. Or they get their heirloom (if you've not given it during charcter creation).

Clan Chief Finrik looks down from his high chair and thanks you for your services to the clan. He takes off the heavy gold armband around his own right bicep and hands it to you. "Gift giver am I for you have brought back our Cows, more precious than gold"

[French Desperate WindChild]

20 minutes ago, Thaz said:

Well if the players decide not to go on adventures and settle down then they are farmers and not adventurers and shouldnt be complaining about the lack of "Phat Lootz". I mean dont get me wrong it's entirely valid and I'd happily GM that campaign. However RQG is about adventure in Glorantha and is not Farmer the RPG.

Secondly I think your understanding of how much young Air/Movement Rune clanspeople obey they're elders and dont go and get themselves into trouble on occasion is wildly different than mine. We're talking about Orlanthi here right? Plus our PC's are standout's. They're better and more powerful than your average person. Of course when the Clan calls the fyrd together to deal with a raid or broo or some mystery they are some of the people the Clan Ring is most likely to send to sort this out. Every played King of Dragon Pass? You dont send the Clan Ring but you do send capable types. Possibly with an eye for them taking a seat on the ring when the time comes. You need to nuture talent. Even a peaceful tribe needs it's warriors and scouts and problem solvers. 

For another example check out 'Crimson Petals' and many other adventures in Pegasus' where players are sent to solve problems. (I mention this adventure 'cos Diana and I wrote it with exactly this sort of thing in mind.)

 

Sorry if didn't explain well my thought :

Of course the clan can ask to PC all you describe. And I definitly agree with your sentences : "to send to sort ", "you do send capable types", "players are sent to sole problems"

Absolutely

What I said is the PC, as young initiates, are not expected to decide by themselves if yes or no  the clan go to raid / war / ..

As Orlanthi they can do anything, but as good Orlanthi they have responsability (clan / family / etc)

So if they do wrong thing, they have to pay a price (as Orlanth did), If the thing is very bad (put into war a clan seems to me very bad), the price must be very hard (like ban or...)

 

By the way, that could be a good start for some scenarii (you have a scenario in pavis , the pc are colymar, obtain a fault then a ban (even for few years), then a caravan near the clan goes to pavis and need some guards or other people)

[Thaz]

4 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the way, that could be a good start for some scenarii (you have a scenario in pavis , the pc are colymar, obtain a fault then a ban (even for few years), then a caravan near the clan goes to pavis and need some guards or other people)

The game I am playing in tonight :- The players are all on their run after killing a bunch of Lunar's and despite the sympathy of their cheif need to hide out for a bit so as not to draw punishment down on their clan. "Those guys, oh yes those outlaws may have killed your men O Lunar Person but they are no longer of our tribe"

 

[PhilHibbs]

22 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Good idea yeah, although up to a degree. I figure that if they take it upon themselves to go and kidnap someone to get ransom, pretty soon they will get in trouble from both the opposing clan and their own clan ring, who might not appreciate them stirring trouble with the neighbours. If however they catch the neighbours fair and square nosing around, the PCs' clan elders will probably give them a more or less generous cut of the ransom -- and they might have to get involved with the negotiations, to add a bit of political  adventuring between the exploration/combat chapters. Plot twist: they might gain an NPC sidekick who needs to pay off their ransom debt for a while.

Yeah, kidnapping innocent people for ransom is a good way to become an outlaw. If you catch someone from a rival clan committing a crime (e.g. The Broken Tower scenario) then you turn them in to the clan and the clan ransoms them, you could get a reward for your actions which might be comparable to a decent chunk of the ransom. Possibly more, if you want something from the equipment list that is a higher value than the ransom, and it's the sort of thing that might be easy for the clan to come by, and depending on your standing in the community and perhaps your bargaining ability. For example if you ransom a raider back to the Goodsword clan, and you want a sword, then maybe the Goodsword clan might be willing to offer a good qaliity sword as ransom.

[Thaz]

56 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yeah, kidnapping innocent people for ransom is a good way to become an outlaw.

Who said anything about Innocents? Just capture bad guys when you fight them instead of murdering them