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The unnamed third member of the "Two-Legged Alliance" alongside the Bolo Lizard and Ostrich tribes are the Men-and-a-Half, on the logic that since they travel on two legs (albeit their own) it counts. Naturally, there are some crude jokes among the other tribes about the difficulties of marriages within this alliance, and at least one Lhankor Mhy sage in Pavis came up with a bunch of very nerdy fraction jokes about the Men-and-a-Half allying with different tribes of "Half-Men" that you can find written down in some obscure section of the library.

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Yelmalio as he is known within Time never actually existed before it (well, he did, and he may even have been called by that title, but he wasn't the Yelmalio any of us would recognize as such); he wa

I am confident that Argrath is just a trickster way in over his head.

@Jeff posted this in the RuneQuest FB group: to which Matthew Cole commented as follows:  

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Putting this where it belongs:

  

10 hours ago, Stephen L said:

I think this is more one for the dumbest theory thread, but given all the speculation as to the author of the dragon rise…

What happens if its an inside job.  Far easier to manipulate Tatius to build the temple over a dragon rather than procure an actual dragon.

And I’ve not yet got to the dumbest bit...

How’s about Temertain.  Who’d suspect him! 

Me, just a completely bumbling and ineffectual scholar.  But Tatius, look what my latest research has turned up on the holy sites of the Sky cults during the gods war has turned up.   Isn’t the mythic significance of that really interesting!

Well, don't say I didn't warn you it was dumb.

Let's spin this on a bit. No, I don't think that it was Temertain who pulled the strings for the Lunar temple. But as much of a puppet and inept he may have been, he will have had a few people trying to uphold the dignity of the office despite the holder of the office being totally unsuited for it. And possibly one of these may have been in contact with a cabal of draconic wisdom-exploring scholars like Garstal Shavetop, and possibly Tosti Runefriend or Orlaront Dragonspeaker.

No idea whether Minaryth had any idea about the dragon's presence. He died before the questers got into position to place the green star in the Celestial Dragon position.

I am not quite certain whether the normal movement of Orlanth's Ring can ever place the Dragon's Head in the exactly right position in Stella Draconis. The stellar precession goes in a fairly exact sequence, which means that there are very distinct tracks followed by Orlanth's Ring which may have a tiny amount of precession over the years or centuries (after all, the World Machine is damaged).

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12 hours ago, Joerg said:

I don't think that it was Temertain who pulled the strings for the Lunar temple. But as much of a puppet and inept he may have been

I'm not sure why I'm defending what I've already acknowledged is a dumb theory, but the contention of said dumb theory is that Temertain is the perfect inept cover for a brilliant revolutionary planner (I suppose as Sir Percy Blakeney is for the Scarlet Pimpernel).

Starbrow and Argrath are just opportunistically seizing the moment he has created.

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20 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I'm not sure why I'm defending what I've already acknowledged is a dumb theory, but the contention of said dumb theory is that Temertain is the perfect inept cover for a brilliant revolutionary planner (I suppose as Sir Percy Blakeney is for the Scarlet Pimpernel).

Starbrow and Argrath are just opportunistically seizing the moment he has created.

In that case, his cover was too perfect, and he got murdered by his own bodyguard before he could enact the destruction of the Lunar Temple.

Grant you, sacrificing most of the Dundealos tribe to Tatius' whims and helping to cause the Windstop are good enough reasons to get rid of an evil genius Temertain.

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23 minutes ago, Joerg said:

he could enact the destruction of the Lunar Temple

No, the whole point is that he doesn’t need to enact the destruction of the Lunar Temple.  He’s already set the Lunars on the track to their own destruction in terms of ensuring the right site and rituals.

Indeed, if his cover's close to being blown, it might be better for his plans if he dies.  It would throw the Lunars off the track, as they would believe they are in the clear, thinking to have foiled his plans.

23 minutes ago, Joerg said:

sacrificing most of the Dundealos tribe to Tatius' whims and helping to cause the Windstop are good enough reasons to get rid of an evil genius Temertain

And would Starbrow or Argrath balk at these sacrifices if they are necessary to secure the Freedom of Sartar and defeat the Lunars?

Edited by Stephen L
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11 hours ago, Joerg said:

In that case, his cover was too perfect, and he got murdered by his own bodyguard before he could enact the destruction of the Lunar Temple.

Grant you, sacrificing most of the Dundealos tribe to Tatius' whims and helping to cause the Windstop are good enough reasons to get rid of an evil genius Temertain.

What makes you think that the mastermind behind that operation is really dead?

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1 minute ago, Brootse said:

What makes you think that the mastermind behind that operation is really dead?

50 Humakti on a death run tend to create quite permanent and non-resurrectable results. And other than Estal Donge, there doesn't appear to be anybody willing to go to Hell to reclaim Temertain. DI may have been attempted.

Temertain did receive a burial, I think. As close to "closed cask" as Orlanthi pyres can offer, the body likely held together only by the shroud's textile.

To his cult, Temertain lives on in his writings. To the Sartar dynasty, Temertain will be remembered as the compromised compromise candidate whose appearance averted direct Tarshite usurpation of the throne. To most of his subjects, his demise will be seen as a first step towards making Sartar great once more.

 

On a totally unrelated subject, an orange hue of skin is fairly common among Orlanthi.

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9 minutes ago, FungusColombicus said:

Unless they are followers of Eurmal playing the "Humakti" card...

50 Eurmali playing out a Death Run will include at least one Killboy eager to do what the Humakti would have done. If only to thwart the rest of the gaggle.

50 Eurmali agreeing to a plan and seeing it through without a hitch would cause major damage to the fabric of the universe. Much worse than that Great Temple to the Trickster in Second Age Slontos (actually Wenelia, IIRC).

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On 12/2/2020 at 10:14 AM, Stephen L said:

And would Starbrow or Argrath balk at these sacrifices if they are necessary to secure the Freedom of Sartar and defeat the Lunars?

Argrath wouldn't (he would sacrifice everyone in the universe for his vengeance, and mostly does).

Kallyr might - she doesn't strike me as a the same kind of sociopath.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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On 12/2/2020 at 12:51 PM, Joerg said:

50 Humakti on a death run tend to create quite permanent and non-resurrectable results. And other than Estal Donge, there doesn't appear to be anybody willing to go to Hell to reclaim Temertain. DI may have been attempted.

Come on, this is the DUMBEST theory thread! The Humakti were in on the scheme all along, and helped Temertain fake his death!  Temertain is really an Eurmali Rune Lord who infiltrated the Lunar command, and turned several dozen Humakti Swords into followers after demonstrating to them that Eurmal is Humakt's boss because he handed him Death and takes it back when he wants.

The real questions are where/when did Temertain surface again after 1624, what identity did he use at that point, and what was his real name before he became Temertain?  Heck, maybe it's Eurmal himself!

Edited by lordabdul
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3 hours ago, lordabdul said:

The real questions are where/when did Temertain surface again after 1624, what identity did he use at that point, and what was his real name before he became Temertain?

He was really a secret Thanatar priest, schooled in the deepest stacks of the Temple of Knowledge in Nochet.  The Dragonrise was a Thanatar plot to consume the minds of the entire Lunar Provincial Gov't - which is the real reason anyone devoured can no longer be contacted.

He's gone back to Nochet now and secretly aims to become the Court Scribe to Samastina - gathering the knowledge of all her spies and devouring it for his own secret plans.

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In Pameltala lies Yngortu, the "Grimcity," ruled by the dual cult of "the Two Brothers, Orjethulut and Hanjethulut, who fought and killed off all their rivals, but made peace before slaying each other."

The Yngortines do not recognize connections between their Two Brothers and outside cults, but according to the Guide most observers associate the Brothers with Humakt and Zorak Zoran.

My dumb theory, with very little but some curious notes in descriptions of the death of Umath to back it up, is that while one of the Brothers is Zorak Zoran, the other is not Humakt, but a god that Genertelan travelers might mistake for Humakt in this context--I think the other brother is Shargash, mostly because I love the idea of a myth where Shargash and Zorak Zoran finally square off in the nadir of the Greater Darkness, only to recognize that they're nearly reflections of each other, then band together to whoop up on Chaos in the final battles of the Gods War.

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21 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

My dumb theory, with very little but some curious notes in descriptions of the death of Umath to back it up, is that while one of the Brothers is Zorak Zoran, the other is not Humakt, but a god that Genertelan travelers might mistake for Humakt in this context--I think the other brother is Shargash, mostly because I love the idea of a myth where Shargash and Zorak Zoran finally square off in the nadir of the Greater Darkness, only to recognize that they're nearly reflections of each other, then band together to whoop up on Chaos in the final battles of the Gods War.

Aw hell yeah.

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On 6/15/2020 at 1:00 PM, qws2 said:

God Forgot people's dead god is really Genert, not Malkion. They were Earth-worshiping Logic people, and now pretend brithni. 

Zistor was just a effort to reconstruct Genert. Unfortunately, machine was not solution.

In my old RQ3 game, Lonely Cry was Genert, and the characters heard the call and answered it. Never finished the game, sadly.

On 6/16/2020 at 7:31 AM, metcalph said:

Xemela is Chalana Arroy.

I thought that one was just obvious.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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Lord Death on a Horse is a fragment of Sheng Seleris that somehow got split off in the final fight between Moonson and Sheng, which careened off far west into the Black Forest in Fronela, where it started to fester from the chaotic energies used to pull Sheng down into his special hell. It would have re-emerged a lot earlier to lead whichever forces it could muster (the bull riders of Charg for instance) against the Empire, but the Syndics' Ban stopped it in its tracks and cut it off everything. In the century of isolation, it regrew into a full body, but only the desire to gather the biggest army imaginable and to take revenge on everybody remained. The energies needed for this growth came from the Kingdom of Loskalm, where the wizards expunged all the evil energies into the Ban for three generations.

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I love this thread.

 

Well first almost a fact, every trickster god in the world is almost certainly the same, thus making Eurmal an universal cult.

Then with this here go my dumbest theory, the second council in an era of peace wish to create the perfect being, a god, this was Nysalor.  In my mind this was a attempt to bring the prodigal son, the bright one, to the world, they wish to bright Yelmalio in the flesh (Basically spartan jesus). But in the middle of all this our beloved trickster was  too tempted to pass out this opportunity to make a joke out of all the races at the same time, interfering with the creation at the most crucial moment, leaving the body of the light god and the essence of the trickster, maybe only a face of Eurmal.

I can almost see how funny he could think it would be to illuminate people and see what happens.

Obviously the joke  went way out of hand pretty soon.

 

Edited by Godweyn
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I'm not sure if the Dwarfs can entire the God Time or have anything equivalent of Heroquests, BUT in the case they don't, here is my idea:

The Mostali view the God Time as essentially a "blueprint" for the World Machine. Mostali can use various means to observe it at its various stages and use that as a way to reverse-engineer what they believe are the solutions to fix the World Machine in Time. They do not, however, view the God Time as the *actual* past, as it were (if such a term even makes sense with regards to the God Time). When mortal heroes visit it, the Mostali basically see it as a form of "internet piracy" where the mortal copy concepts from the blueprint and manifest them in Time (artifacts, powers, followers, etc.), and while not a part of the plan, this is largely harmless. Alterations to it, however, in the vein of what the God Learners did, represents an existential threat to their works. Which raises some questions why the Dwarfs never intervened against the Middle Sea Empire. Perhaps they had their own secret reasons. Perhaps they knew it would revert itself? Perhaps they were in contact with a certain Blue Meany. Perhaps they were overtaken by a temporary heresy that preached that this alteration was for the better, only for its adherents to get ousted? Or perhaps something entirely else.

Alternative take: Mostali don't view the God Time and Time as separate in the same way almost all other races do. How? Who knows. They're weird like that. Or for them, we are weird. Weird and broken and out of synch, like a glitching program that needs, eventually, at some point, to be either rebooted, or deleted.

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10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Which raises some questions why the Dwarfs never intervened against the Middle Sea Empire.

Well they certainly intervened in Zistorela which was the closest the Middle Sea Empire got to really impinging on the World Machine.  Of course, they let the Heortlings spend 10 years fighting before they came in at the end and hauled off all the "treasures" from the Clanking City and leaving their traps behind.

Something else to think about - the heart of the Middle Sea Empire is Jrustela.  We know it was a single island before the great destruction at the end of the 2nd Age, and now it is shattered.  But the largest remaining island is Curustus and that is where the great Mostali activity to pull Slon back into place is centered on.

So, what actually happened in Jrustela???  Seems to me like there was considerable dwarf activity going on in secret there, and when the God Learners got too close... BOOM!  And now the dwarfs are onto the next stage of their centuries long plan.

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Something else to think about - the heart of the Middle Sea Empire is Jrustela.  We know it was a single island before the great destruction at the end of the 2nd Age, and now it is shattered.  But the largest remaining island is Curustus and that is where the great Mostali activity to pull Slon back into place is centered on.

So, what actually happened in Jrustela??? 

Canonically, the Luathans ( https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Luathan_Quake ), but that’s the kind of actual boring explanation that does not belong in this thread!

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7 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

but that’s the kind of actual boring explanation that does not belong in this thread!

Why would the Mostali claim the event (and draw attention to their plans), when it's much easier to blame somebody else who was clearly involved with events in Seshnela?  For all we know, the Mostali hired the Luathans to do their dirty work!

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13 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Alternative take: Mostali don't view the God Time and Time as separate in the same way almost all other races do. How? Who knows. They're weird like that. Or for them, we are weird. Weird and broken and out of synch, like a glitching program that needs, eventually, at some point, to be either rebooted, or deleted.

This needs its own thread and ultimately extended development. 

In My Glorantha there was always a strand of primeval mostal influence within human Jrustelan history. It has simply been hidden in the fragmentary records that survive. (Urtiam, etc.)

Theories relating Blue Zz-b-r Magic (historically adroit at shattering or sinking lands) to the Purple Luatha Project especially welcome. Who is the natural enemy in this? The dwarf. And also the altinelan.

 

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