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Your Dumbest Theory


scott-martin

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New dumb theory: Maniria is named after Mani Tor of Big Rubble.

 

Once, he was an immortal Entruling hero who wandered the lands south of the Ryzel Hills, helping Entruling communities fight against the Lopers.  He was instrumental in unifying the city states of Gualal, Bemelor, and Herolal against this common foe.  To gain the aid of the Middle Sea Alliance to destroy the Lopers, he agreed to become an agent of the Godlearners.  The province of Maniria was named in his honour (GtG, P. 351).

 

He was sent to Robcradle to assist with the acquisition of cradles, and survived the destruction of the city by the giants and Waha.  After 30 years of surviving in the Praxian wilderness, he befriended Pavis.  Though never a central ally like Flintnail, Mani found a place in the strange city.  When Pavis fell, he developed a group of fanatical followers.  To this day, he continues to be reincarnated to help them.  He knows of the twisted things the Godlearners became (which is why he did not return), and the sinking of his homeland.

 

This, I submit, is a dumb theory.  Or at least excessive.

 

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The Old Pavisite families (e.g. those of Opili Hill) are the true heirs of the Jenarong Dynasty of Dara Happa, and after Sheng will have been replaced and Ralzakark vanquished, a Pavisite will lead Dara Happa out of the Hero Wars into new draconic splendor.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
Just now, Nevermet said:

Fight me.

This thread is living up to its potential!

I need a place to hide the legacy of the artmalite diaspora that ends up in Ralios in archaic texts. Safelster is theoretically interesting but already a little crowded and far from tidal / blue moon resonances. Slontos, on the other hand, has the advantage of geological upheaval wiping out a lot of records while preserving others for Hero Wars excavation.

In this scenario they probably have the Red Sword in there.

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2 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

This thread is living up to its potential!

I need a place to hide the legacy of the artmalite diaspora that ends up in Ralios in archaic texts. Safelster is theoretically interesting but already a little crowded and far from tidal / blue moon resonances. Slontos, on the other hand, has the advantage of geological upheaval wiping out a lot of records while preserving others for Hero Wars excavation.

In this scenario they probably have the Red Sword in there.

First, could you tell me about the archaic texts?  This isn't one of those passive aggressive "Citation please" things; I just don't remember what they are 🙂

 

Second, if I must give a serious opinion about Kaxtorplose & the zaranistangi, Kaxtorplose was probably a major opposing force to their raiding activity.  There may be some mixing, though, a few turncoats or thralls that get absorbed into the population.   At the same time, anything is possible, though I reserve the right to be an internet tough guy if you upset me.  😉 (I am, of course kidding.  my 6 year old nieces can annihilate me)

 

IIRC, the only mentions of the Blue Moon in the 3rd Age are some isolated villages in the Wenelian Isles.  However, if there is another extant population of Blues with secrets, I'm going to say the Aulorings of Caratan.  Their history is very undefined save that (1) much of their history dates back to fleeing Gualal after the flood, and (2) they worship the God of Floods, which sounds like the son of Rain (Heler) and Tides (Annilla) to me.  Also, the idea that the Red Sword isn't just in Maniria, but in CARATAN is amusing to me.

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It is good when the nieces win. In the great chain of being I suspect you defeat me, they defeat you, my cat defeats them.

The Archaic Source in question is quoted here . . . the "wandering tribes" may not be the zaranistangi but clearly share a mighty close lineage. The problem for sages is of course that there are no exoteric historical records of this happening yet, which means that the timeline extends into a Western Hero Wars period or is a dim projection from a Storm Age cultural origin myth. Either outcome can be exciting.

Maybe the blue people built Erenplose instead and that's where they retreated for the final revelation. They have their own flood-negating magic there so the Sword would be extra . . . and portable.

I really like all the blue people in the region you are drawing together here. They're often lumped in with "Helerites" but it's strange if this turned out to be the only part of the world where a separate Heler nation survived. Given the god's nature I'd think he'd be everywhere moist, in which case "Heler" may be an exonym perpetuated by people who knew Heler but not Artmal until it was too late to clear up the confusion..

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Way back in Wyrms Footnotes #5, there was information on how villages "near Alone" (and in the Far Place in general) would include big sharpened and poisonous tree trunks sticking out of buildings' rooftops (pictured below).

image.png.467331828a10a87e233a1ba3db10c725.png

The reason for that was supposedly that the Far Place is near the "Giants' Path", a route that Giants frequently take coming down from the mountains to go to Snakepipe Hollow. Giants would be less inclined to stomp on those houses.

Here's the map of the area from Snakepipe Hollow.... the Giants' Path is the dotted line along the Vale of Flowers. As you can see, it's pretty far from Alone, but we can imagine that villages far enough up north (in the norther Tres or Amad tribes) may have this kind of defenses.

 

image.png.a6688c260b37f2fbdff6375600ca2896.png

 

Fast forward a few decades and the RQG Pegasus Plateau & Other Stories now tells us that this weaponized architecture exists in Alone itself!

 

image.png.e9df8afaf27af5a9d38fd9f71196225a.png

 

It's clear to me (because this is the "dumbest theory" thread after all) that something is up with the Far Point Roof-Sharpeners' Guild (which is mentioned in Wyrms Footnotes!). Obviously, they started a FUD campaign around the dangers of Giants wandering around, expanding their trade from a few isolated northern villages all the way to the Alone itself. Did they make fake Giant footprints way south of their usual path, making it looks like Giants were getting increasingly often lost down there? Did they put various types of bait to get real Giants to be spotted and validate their claims? Either way, they got the entire Alone area to order sharpened roof sticks, making their business boom over the last decade!

However, they're getting desperate: now that most buildings have been equipped, they need *something* to drive up the maintenance costs of their clients, and they may be looking at *actually* getting Giants to come this way... unless they can find another threat to solve with roof-related counter measures. There's a lot of flying creatures in the mountains, after all, and any of them could warrant adding other differently sized spikes on everybody's roofs...

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Did they make fake Giant footprints way south of their usual path, making it looks like Giants were getting increasingly often lost down there?

Well, the adventurers in my campaign encountered a very large giant in the Lost Man Woods south of Snakepipe Hollow, so they are definitely a thing in that area! 

I'll note that Harmast was lucky not to get eaten, but he was carried in the giant's hand all the way to the Giant's Table (and the rest of the adventurer's had a difficult time keeping up).  When they did catch up, they convinced the giant to eat one of Harmast's zebras instead of Harmast - and put a thunderstone they had gained in the zebra's satchel.  Poor Harmast did lose the zebra, but the thunderstone blew off the giant's head.  (Which resulting mess of blood, gore, and brains got all over many of the adventurers and also attracted the native broo flies.)

 

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7 hours ago, scott-martin said:

It is good when the nieces win. In the great chain of being I suspect you defeat me, they defeat you, my cat defeats them.

And the cycle of chao- er, life, continues.

 

7 hours ago, scott-martin said:

The Archaic Source in question is quoted here . . . the "wandering tribes" may not be the zaranistangi but clearly share a mighty close lineage. The problem for sages is of course that there are no exoteric historical records of this happening yet, which means that the timeline extends into a Western Hero Wars period or is a dim projection from a Storm Age cultural origin myth. Either outcome can be exciting.

I definitely agree that the Zaranistangi were a Wandering Tribe.  They had teh Red Sword, lost it to the Seshnegi, and their king was eventually killed in 805.  While the Godlearners thought they had killed all the Lopers, some managed to escape (GtG II: 429).  Though none returned to Teshnos, it appears they may have joined a pre-existing group of Blues in souther Herilia (GtG I: 351), or perhaps founded that culture.  In Blood over Gold, those Blue Moon worshippers survived the Flood.  There is no mention in the Guide.

One bubble I should burst: As written, Erenplose, also known as Porlufta, was a city of Entruli origins that angered the the Sea Gods, but saved by a Kolati.

 

Given that the Guide explicitly talks about Aamor (P. 414), I would say this is future events:

Quote

Aamor: The son of Dandomal, the rebellious count
of Dangim, Aamor is the rightful ruler of that land.
When the rest of his family was killed by his usurping
uncle Dagram at King Guilmarn’s behest, Aamor
managed to escape to Fornoar, where he became a
master of both wizardry and swordsmanship. Aamor
now searches for the lost island of Brithos, seeking
allies for his vengeance against the Seshnegi.

So, Aamor, rightful ruler of Dangim, has fled Sheshnela, and is currently looking for Brithos, hope they will ally with him against the Sheshnegi.  Also, that post's chronology hurts my head, and I'm unsure why.  I'll start with the last 3 paragraphs:  

  1. Stolen by Vrimaki (Wind Children?) who were allied with Mostali (Diamond Mountain?  Maybe)
  2. The Hykimi steal it from the Vrimaki
  3. Vealil's Wandering Tribe steals with from the Hykimi
  4. Vealil and his wandering tribe settle where they acquired the sword
  5. The Opening Occurs
  6. Vealil uses the sword to protect his land from "Slontonian Pirates" (No idea who this is... Wolf Pirates?)
  7. Aamor steals the sword from Vealil
  8. Aamor and his Teshni people get into a conflict in Ralios with Artmali, Tamali, & Jonati.  [This 1 sentence could be a thread in itself, because it is incredibly unclear to me who these group are]
  9. Aamor loses to The Nagi who invade Teshnos
  10. Aamor leads a mass migration across Genertela
  11. Aamor resolves it, give Artmali the sword, and they now have a new homeland, assumedly in Ralios.

That's.... trippy.  Especially because we know the Red Sword is currently in the Kingdom of War in Fronela (GtG: 211)

I... do not know how all that fits together.

 

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8 hours ago, scott-martin said:

I really like all the blue people in the region you are drawing together here. They're often lumped in with "Helerites" but it's strange if this turned out to be the only part of the world where a separate Heler nation survived. Given the god's nature I'd think he'd be everywhere moist, in which case "Heler" may be an exonym perpetuated by people who knew Heler but not Artmal until it was too late to clear up the confusion..

A small PS - As far as I can tell, there is no distinct Helering civilization anywhere (or at least not in Maniria) at the Dawn.  IMG, the Entruli absorbed the Helerings when Heler swore loyalty to Orlanth at Storm Mountain.  That said, I really need to read some more Stafford Library to work out the mythology here.

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2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

However, they're getting desperate: now that most buildings have been equipped, they need *something* to drive up the maintenance costs of their clients, and they may be looking at *actually* getting Giants to come this way... unless they can find another threat to solve with roof-related counter measures. There's a lot of flying creatures in the mountains, after all, and any of them could warrant adding other differently sized spikes on everybody's roofs...

I love the (possibly comedic) adventure ideas that come from this.

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5 hours ago, lordabdul said:

However, they're getting desperate: now that most buildings have been equipped, they need *something* to drive up the maintenance costs of their clients, and they may be looking at *actually* getting Giants to come this way...

My theory is the Issaries cult is involved in this scam:

Secure your roof ! Your roof is the most important and vulnerable part of your cottage. Have your roof professionally inspected annually and keep your tree spike well maintained. Get in touch with your local Issaries Insurance representative for more information and a free quote.

Edited by Hijabg
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12 hours ago, Nevermet said:

A small PS - As far as I can tell, there is no distinct Helering civilization anywhere (or at least not in Maniria) at the Dawn.  IMG, the Entruli absorbed the Helerings when Heler swore loyalty to Orlanth at Storm Mountain.  That said, I really need to read some more Stafford Library to work out the mythology here.

In the preamble to 'Settlements at the Dawn' (History of the Heortling Peoples) Greg wrote

"This is a listing of (many of) the significant places in south/central Genertela at the Dawn"

That lovely (many of) allows us free license to place Helerings wherever we wish, I would say.  I would have them scattered along the Esrolian and Manirian coasts IMG.  Mind you, the title of this thread is giving me ideas.....

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38 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

That lovely (many of) allows us free license to place Helerings wherever we wish, I would say.  I would have them scattered along the Esrolian and Manirian coasts IMG.

Oh, that's absolutely a viable choice, I completely agree!  I mean, I like Maniria.  To like Maniria is to like the "Glorantha of the Gaps" 😉 

And even after assimilation into other groups, there's a question of how much their mythology & magic continue to matter.  I'd definitely argue that Heler is more important figure in Maniria than Heortland, for example.  I would also love to know the role of Heler (or their devotees) in the events leading up to the sinking of Erenplose.

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7 minutes ago, Nevermet said:

Oh, that's absolutely a viable choice, I completely agree!  I mean, I like Maniria.  To like Maniria is to like the "Glorantha of the Gaps" 😉 

And even after assimilation into other groups, there's a question of how much their mythology & magic continue to matter.  I'd definitely argue that Heler is more important figure in Maniria than Heortland, for example.  I would also love to know the role of Heler (or their devotees) in the events leading up to the sinking of Erenplose.

In his Blog "The Brown Book of Zzabur" Tindalos suggested that the Helerings may have been the ancestors of the Weeders, possibly the Osliran River People and (IIRC) the Nogatendites.

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On 1/5/2021 at 11:07 PM, davecake said:

Chalana Arroy is multiple cults melded together  - Chalana Arroy = Xemela Arroin, which is probably Theyalans recognising their 'White Lady' in a Western hero cult and a Fronelan elf cult and smushing them together into one cult. Happens early because they have a tradition of being wanderers. 

YGWV, but in my game, it was always blessed Mairnali, come from the furthest East, who saw the chaos and disharmony the Antigod Oorsu Sara / Orlanth brought to the world, and sought out a way to Heal it.

Chalana's outright pacifism always struck me as a highly mystical refutation of violence.

Edited by aumshantih
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4 minutes ago, aumshantih said:

YGWV, but in my game, it was always blessed Mairnali, come from the furthest East, who saw the chaos and disharmony the Antigod Oorsu Sara / Orlanth brought to the world, and sought out a way to Heal it.

Love it. Strange fragment that seems to support this narrative:

The third deity which stirred to make a mountain was Chalana Arroy, who we know now as a Goddess of Harmony. She sat upon a slope of the Spike, and reached out her right hand and invoked the power of Innocence. As a result of her desire, her mountain was inverted, and made instead a deep hole whose volume, say philosophers, exactly equalled the volume raised by the mountains that were made before. Later on this huge pit was filled by water and became known as the Pool of Serenity.

In this model the Pool might well be one of the eastern seas. Everything depends on which direction the goddess was facing and whether she spent any time as Harantara.

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When matching major antigods with central Genertelan deities, I wonder which one would be a good match for Herespur?

That martial antigod has managed to keep active through most antigod activities, fought in all of the realms, was involved wht the Sky tryrant and the downfall of Churanpur. The one thing that makes him different from Orlanth is that now he rules an Underworld - that is a realm where Orlanth ever only visited. But then there is Humakt,

 

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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6 hours ago, Joerg said:

When matching major antigods with central Genertelan deities, I wonder which one would be a good match for Herespur?

But then there is Humakt

... wow
I have been doing this exercise myself as I continue my explorations of Vithela.    Herespur is known as the "Traitor" or the "Liar", which is sort of mirror-universe-Humakt.

But then again, Oorsu Sara makes a lot of sense as mirror-universe-Orlanth, now I just want the Vithelan POV be akin to classic Star Trek Mirror Universe episodes, complete with bad facial hair.

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