Your Dumbest Theory

[Eff]

The EWF logo exists because of psychic contamination. When attempting to summon up a sigil to characterize the Waltzing and Hunting bands, the early draconic mystics of Orlanthland found themselves meditating on this sign:

\

Not knowing what it meant or where it came from, they believed it to be a repeating thought of Ourobouros impressed upon the outer cosmos. As it descended into the material, it grew entangled with the body plan of a wyrm, and so EWF came into being as a symbol. 

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, Leingod said:

That the EWF Rune is literally just the letters "EWF" smushed together is canon; that this is because New Wyrmish is literally just Modern English is not.

One of the things that make my head spin is that not only are the letters very similar, the words that make them up start with the same letters and in the same order. It’s like if you had three words in one language, translated them into an unrelated language, and wound up with the same three-letter acronym as before. And that’s before realizing that in the other language, the equivalents of ”Wyrm” and ”Without” must start with the same letter in order for it to work.

(Utterances like ”Youf” for EWF and the Yelmalio ”Yo!” further seem to suggest that Glorantha has the same letters as English, at least in part.)

Edited July 27, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

One of the things that make my head spin is that not only are the letters very similar, the words that make them up start with the same letters and in the same order. It’s like if you had three words in one language, translated them into an unrelated language, and wound up with the same three-letter acronym as before. And that’s before realizing that in the other language, the equivalents of ”Wyrm” and ”Without” must start with the same letter in order for it to work.

(Utterances like ”Youf” for EWF and the Yelmalio ”Yo!” further seem to suggest that Glorantha has the same letters as English, at least in part.)

Or that the translators are playing very fast-and-loose with their translations for the sake of making sure the jokes/plays on words mean more or less the same thing they would be if they were made in English originally.

[Akhôrahil]

18 hours ago, AlHazred said:

if his rune is kind of like a squashed EWF rune

It's a deer's head though, to go with the name Heort (=Deer)?

[scott-martin]

5 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

It's a deer's head though, to go with the name Heort (=Deer)?

"Not deer. Elk horn."

Pralorelan shamanism with its serpent dancers and horned (wo)man just got really interesting. I wonder if they had this kind of complicated glyph and spoke an acronymatic form of English. 

Any less dumb and it might be time to think about taking this stuff out to the normal serious threads. 

Let's see, something dumb. White Mountain on Teleos had a really good claim to be "the historical Spike" and source of a few now ubiquitous cults before early cataclysms started it drifting off the geographical center. This did not make the God Learners happy so they downplayed the evidence whenever they got the chance.

[Nick Brooke]

20 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

(Utterances like ”Youf” for EWF and the Yelmalio ”Yo!” further seem to suggest that Glorantha has the same letters as English, at least in part.)

Don’t forget the Yelmalian “Oy!” (Fortunate Sun), the Yelmalian “Why, oh why?” (Massacre at Black Rock), and the imminently forthcoming Yelmalian war cry, “Oyoyoyoyoy!” (Black Spear, Act 6).

[Akhôrahil]

25 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Don’t forget the Yelmalian “Oy!” (Fortunate Sun), the Yelmalian “Why, oh why?” (Massacre at Black Rock), and the imminently forthcoming Yelmalian war cry, “Oyoyoyoyoy!” (Black Spear, Act 6).

Presumably Yelmalians also invented the Yo-yo?

[HreshtIronBorne]

Gods damn it. Now I need an outcast group of yelmalions with Battle Yo-Yos...

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Now I need an outcast group of yelmalions with Battle Yo-Yos...

Bolo lizard riders obviously.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Gods damn it. Now I need an outcast group of yelmalions with Battle Yo-Yos...

Or an Outkast group of Yelmalions going "Hey-ya!"

[AlHazred]

I had a player ask about the "Yolo Lizard riders," and my year was ruined.

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, scott-martin said:

"Not deer. Elk horn."

Now that's an uzuz...

Heort is a scion of the White Deer (people), not some Pralori.

Neither some just white on the ass deer, like that Purendii kid of Orogeria.

 

9 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Pralorelan shamanism with its serpent dancers and horned (wo)man just got really interesting. I wonder if they had this kind of complicated glyph and spoke an acronymatic form of English. 

While Heort was a shaman rather than some rune lord, and possibly a shape changer similar to his post-Sword and Helm Kodigvari cousins, I don't get the vibe of the Heortling deer being that massive.

One might posit that the White Deer was a form of Zaytenara, the unsullied white planet outside of the Planetary Sons. The missing truth of the Lunar Way is hidden in the core of the Heortling way, and when the Seven Mothers revived the rest, they allowed the Void to take what they failed to bring up.

 

9 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Let's see, something dumb. White Mountain on Teleos had a really good claim to be "the historical Spike" and source of a few now ubiquitous cults before early cataclysms started it drifting off the geographical center. This did not make the God Learners happy so they downplayed the evidence whenever they got the chance.

That theory would gain some credibility if one were to find a few green elves further up the slopes of that peak, and possibly some weird colorless aldryami beyond that. Or someone has to bring some of those back from the Firebergs.

The dislocation might have been the consequence of the Somelz project where the Mostali attempted an off-center restoration of the earliest Surface World.

 

Teleos is Lost Thinobutu, abandoned, then re-populated by refugees from Gendara.

The Kumankan lords of the Place of Cloth Trading in Purple lands may have failed to recognize that ancestral home as much as the Maslo lords of the Garlic Place in Yellow lands.

[scott-martin]

15 hours ago, Joerg said:

Teleos is Lost Thinobutu, abandoned, then re-populated by refugees from Gendara.

This is one of the great things that happen when dumb theories circulate in high enough density. I love it.

There were probably at least four "approximate Spikes" scattered around what becomes the Pool: Teleos, Jrustela, a hypothetical Choralinthor eruption (shades of Atlantis), the Neliomi ladaralite civilization destroyed by zzabur, maybe lost Loral. All volcanically active and interpreting the Magic Mountain myth along the seams between the worlds. Much belintarology has been wasted on drawing diagrams showing the relationships in order to deduce how the theoretical center point moves.

Speaking of which, I'm really here right now to note that our Third Age knowledge of a few elemental economies is vague and general because the God Learners succeeded with them and as yet nobody's reconstruction movement has gotten much traction. Looking at Sea, Fire, most expressions of Earth ("Stone" and "Plant") and a surprising amount of Moon across the lozenge.

All this stuff is either ubiquitous (embedded in the syntax of Trade) or extinct today. Beyond what everybody knows, nobody knows it. This might change in the Hero Wars.

Only in the old Central Genertelan "theistic" zone did local mythologies persist in anything like their native complexity: Pelorian Sky/Sun, Pelandan Earth, Kerofinelan Storm, Esrolia and their associates. Even these relatively pure survivals are really only traditionalist efforts to roll back EWF overlay to the system the Autarchs left behind. Dark, always stubborn and sheltering, led this resistance out of the Plateau and one or more northern centers we don't talk about as much.

 

[jajagappa]

Earth did not rise up out of the Sea.  Instead, as Chaos pressed in upon the sea, it naturally solidified into the Shape of the Law Rune.  Because it did so from all directions, four great Law Rune "rafts" were formed and continuously driven towards each other by the ongoing flow of Chaos into the world.

It was when these four triangular "rafts" met that the Earth Rune was formed.  But the flow of Chaos did not stop.  It kept pushing these four rafts together.  Where the leading points met, they could go no farther forward, so they were forced upwards and the Spike was formed. 

Still the flow of Chaos continued to push inward.  Eventually cracks formed from the building pressure.  In the north, Chaos flowed into, through, and on top of the land and shoved the new Sky Dome southward.  Eventually the ongoing pressure in the center could not be maintained and the Spike crumbled and disintegrated.

Even now, new wedges of solidified Chaos are forming and are ready to intrude upon the world, and they will smash the existing Earth between them as they come together.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Earth did not rise up out of the Sea.  Instead, as Chaos pressed in upon the sea, it naturally solidified into the Shape of the Law Rune.  Because it did so from all directions, four great Law Rune "rafts" were formed and continuously driven towards each other by the ongoing flow of Chaos into the world.

Are the Seas and Chaos that different, then?

Why is water so effective in searing away Chaos? Is it just a rival faction of destruction?

The Vithelan myths indicate that. While Vithela has the offspring of Vith and Gebkeran as their home-grown antigods, the sea entities are a form of "not-us" antigods taking away their world.

 

"The pressure of the Void" is a surprising concept. The Chaos  Void we know is a vacuum, sucking in all that gets into touch.

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, scott-martin said:

There were probably at least four "approximate Spikes" scattered around what becomes the Pool: Teleos, Jrustela, a hypothetical Choralinthor eruption (shades of Atlantis), the Neliomi ladaralite civilization destroyed by zzabur, maybe lost Loral. All volcanically active and interpreting the Magic Mountain myth along the seams between the worlds. Much belintarology has been wasted on drawing diagrams showing the relationships in order to deduce how the theoretical center point moves.

I have never associated the Spike with volcanic activity - IMO it is pretty much the antithesis of molten rock, even beyond the basalt core of certain types of inactive volcanoes.

Stone is not crystal, but a conglomerate of crystallites, quasi-crystals, and glassy parts. Some rock actually is glass throughout. Stone (and Truestone) can show patterns of differently colored or textured components.

According to the Mostali, the Spike was a tool of Mostal, presumably made from living Stone.

For all its "world machine" appellations, Mostal is a maker of living things. The World Machine is a living thing.

I don't see the Spike as the receptible of celestial seed sloshing around inside.

 

Neither is the spike itself the result from the four worlds colliding, it's more like the cause of the collision. The Spike represents the one-ness of the universe.

So do the lesser Spikes. And it looks like the axis mundi comes in pairs - one in the center, the other one on the extreme border.

The one that gets lost is the one on the extreme border.

 

The Mirrorsea Bay is a region of volcanic activity, but it doesn't come across as a caldera to me. There is a huge central volcano in Kethaela, but it has been beheaded (by  spear strike), mitigating the explosion. The Shadow Plateau still has some geothermal activity, a long time tamed by the Obsidian Palace but now blubbering up in the Tarpit.

Quivin and the Storm Mountain peaks are children of Vestkarthen, but none of them is known for fiery eruptions. Stormwalk is how we name the torso of the one whose head was wrestled off by the Storm Bull.

The peak that imploded may have left the Threestep Isles as the last remnants of its foothills. That archipelago seems to mark the transition from the coastal seas (Rozgali, Solkathi) to the abysmal Homeward Sea circular current, fed by lesser currents (the rivers) as well as the Doom Currents raging through the breaks in the Earth Cube.

These four rifts (the fourth obscured by the deflection it experienced encountering Mt. Thakarn, running off diagonally rather than vertically, causing the lands of Slon to slip outward) don't quite follow the (postulated) four colliding worlds, but then all four of these triangles

 

7 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Speaking of which, I'm really here right now to note that our Third Age knowledge of a few elemental economies is vague and general because the God Learners succeeded with them and as yet nobody's reconstruction movement has gotten much traction. Looking at Sea, Fire, most expressions of Earth ("Stone" and "Plant") and a surprising amount of Moon across the lozenge.

There seems to be a rising power of the moon  grounded in the Underworld, for now affecting the Seas and their tides. And there is plenty of Lunar fallout - whether the impact crater of Croesium or the shattered material of Blue Moon Plateau.

There are rocky pieces of the Sky Dome (which some have described as a crystalline substance) which have impacted the Surface World, too  Mt. Selon on the western end of the Mislari range, or Churanpur (possibly Trowjang).

The female sky is rather under-represented in celestial lore, even though there are hints for a forcible take-over from a regime preceding the Eye in the Sky.

7 hours ago, scott-martin said:

All this stuff is either ubiquitous (embedded in the syntax of Trade) or extinct today. Beyond what everybody knows, nobody knows it. This might change in the Hero Wars.

There is Godtime stuff missing from Time. Not just stuff that was destroyed by Chaos in the Greater Darkness, but stuff that is hidden in folds outside of what the Web of Arachne Solara turned out as the Surface World.

7 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Only in the old Central Genertelan "theistic" zone did local mythologies persist in anything like their native complexity: Pelorian Sky/Sun, Pelandan Earth, Kerofinelan Storm, Esrolia and their associates. Even these relatively pure survivals are really only traditionalist efforts to roll back EWF overlay to the system the Autarchs left behind. Dark, always stubborn and sheltering, led this resistance out of the Plateau and one or more northern centers we don't talk about as much.

Rather than blaming the God Learners, how much has Theyalan syncretism contributed to a flatter perception of Glorantha?

 

 

But hey, wrong thread.

 

  

On 7/27/2021 at 1:40 AM, Eff said:

The EWF logo exists because of psychic contamination. When attempting to summon up a sigil to characterize the Waltzing and Hunting bands, the early draconic mystics of Orlanthland found themselves meditating on this sign:

\

Now, it shouldn't really surprise us that Vistikos Left Eye had that funny feeling again, winding him up inside. Every time he touched upon the Dragon Dream, he had no idea where to begin, and was clearly overwhelmed by the emotions, to the point of forgetting any previous ones, lost to storm. So hey, it's got what it takes, so tell me, why can't this be  EWF?

On 7/27/2021 at 1:40 AM, Eff said:

Not knowing what it meant or where it came from, they believed it to be a repeating thought of Ourobouros impressed upon the outer cosmos. As it descended into the material, it grew entangled with the body plan of a wyrm, and so EWF came into being as a symbol. 

About the same time the Gold Wheel Dancers disappeared from records of the Second Council, a new race joined the people of the Council - the Wyrms. There don't appear to have been any at the Dawn.

We know the Battle Banner of the EWF, showing a short-legged dragon almost in the Ouroboros pose. What if the Gold Wheel really was the closed Ouroboros pose, and the Wyrms resulted from opening that loop?

[jajagappa]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Why is water so effective in searing away Chaos? Is it just a rival faction of destruction?

Perhaps there is a good reason why Nelat's Baths are acid...

[Leingod]

10 hours ago, Joerg said:

Why is water so effective in searing away Chaos? Is it just a rival faction of destruction?

It might be that it's just because Water really only has that one way to destroy (rather than just kill) something. The effectiveness of that way against Chaos might just be due to its proximity to Chaos, being the second of the elements to differentiate itself.

[Joerg]

The change from the peaceful Unity Council to the more warlike Second Council either was triggered by the Bridling of Kargzant, or caused this event around the end of the first century.

What happened was that a deity clad and equipped like a barbarian warrior captured and bridled Kargzant the Sun Horse in the sky, forcing the planet Lightfore onto the Sunpath. Or at least that's the best guess I have.

 

The notion of this event existed already before the notion of Orlanth existed - the Reign of Froalar gives this event as part of the reign of King Sonmalos:

109 Battle of the Heavens between Umath and Yelm

Glorious ReAscent of Yelm describes this event on p.34, with the sons of Vuranostum participating in this event after the death of Vuranostum (in 72 ST, according to Plentonius).

Quote

One  Sacred  Day,   the  sons  of  Vuranostum  were summoned  by  Kargzant.  The  god  needed  his  faithful followers to fight with him against monster gods which had escaped  the  Underworld.  The  sons  of  Vuranostum  knew their duty, and so they went into the sky realm to help their god  against  the  enemy.  They  fought  against  a  great  giant which  destroyed  armies  with  its  shout,  pierced  a  hundred with the tip of his spear, and slew ranks of heroes with his iron sword. 

Kargzant did  not  hesitate  before  a  fight,  and  charged into  the  melee.  But  the  giant  cheated,  and  it  tripped  the horse god, and tied it with steel ropes, then licked a cruel bit into  its  mouth,  and  a  bridle  upon  its  head.  That  way Kargzant  was  bound,  and  the  horses  of  the  world  were trained, and the sons of Vuranostum and all the people of Kargzant  were  doomed  to  fall  before  the  people  of Oralanatus. 

After this, the movement of Kargzant in the sky realm was  regular.  The  pattern  prepared  the  world  for  the  later, true light of day and dark of night Thus, for the first time, there was a discernable difference between night and day. 

109 would fall into the reign of Huradabba, aka Son of Evil, who reigned from 101 to 110 according to Plentonius (if only to adjust the Anarchy Year to 111 ST).

According to Plentonius, Huradabba ambushed the grandsons of Vuranostum, and slew them all before succeeding undertaking the Ten Tests with seven of the required regalia. GRoY gives 101 for this event, The Fortunate Succession already 96ST.

Plentonius then introduces Avivath, and his lineage, and his use of the Sunspear against that emperor. All true to his real purpose as chief propagandist for Khordavu.

I don't really trust those dates of convenience for Huradabba. Neither does the establishment of night and day at this late date sound correct.

We have another account for the same celestial event in the Fortunate Succession p.14:

Quote

Orlanatus bore Antirius as a Weapon, and bore Justice into heaven so that Lightfore overcame Vettebbe. This way the evil was ended.

This sounds like a corroboration of the later date.

 

Anyway, Plentonius suggests that Dara Happan heroquesters would have participated in that event, and logic suggests that the only Orlanthi culture sufficiently awakened to invoke Oralanatus would have been the Heortlings of the Council.

 

The Guide gives 167 as the date of Horse Warlords slaughtering Lightbringer missionaries, and the election of the first warlord of the Council.

 

Any good guesses how Orlanth (or the spectre of Umath) was summoned into the heavens in 109 or 111, and why this event remains glossed over in the Guide or the Sourcebook?

[scott-martin]

24 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Any good guesses how Orlanth (or the spectre of Umath) was summoned into the heavens in 109 or 111, and why this event remains glossed over in the Guide or the Sourcebook?

Love it. My instinctual dumb response is that the god the missionaries carried north was something like a sun god and they were bringing actual light. When they met a rival king of heaven the identification contests failed, creating a sky battle that resolved as the southern god splintering into parts . . . the biggest of which fall to the point where "storm" characteristics become central.

The historical site for this might have been [a] Hill of Gold in which "Orlanth" lost and the sky brother won. Someone in the Ignifer elite probably preserved knowledge of this story but I don't know if they survive into the Argenteus era. 

[Joerg]

12 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

Love it. My instinctual dumb response is that the god the missionaries carried north was something like a sun god and they were bringing actual light.

So the barbarian warrior identified as Oralanatus by the author(s) of The Fortunate Succession could have been Elmal?

12 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

When they met a rival king of heaven the identification contests failed, creating a sky battle that resolved as the southern god splintering into parts . . . the biggest of which fall to the point where "storm" characteristics become central.

 

The feat described by Plentonius sounds very much like Hyalor's Horsebreaking, or an re-enactment thereof.

Vuranoste was the first rider emperor of Dara Happa, and a Hyaloring. (So were his sons.) That sort of suggests that the Horsebreaking would have been in their past, but then Kargzant, the Sun Horse, might have been exempt from that indignity until then. As the chariot horse warlords slowly give way to cavalry as their main force, abandoning the chariots except for ritual use, this bridling may have been the turning point towards that trend.

 

12 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

The historical site for this might have been [a] Hill of Gold in which "Orlanth" lost and the sky brother won.

Meeting in a Hill of Gold quest would create heroquesting contact even without military contact.

The Dara Happan Kargzant heroquesters apparently returned as losers (if they returned at all). Some fifty years later, horse warlords slay Lightbringer missionaries (rather than trolls, or Kitori, from the earlier secret warfare) on sight.

 

A Kargzant version of the Hill of Gold is probably the Horsebreaking myth. We have a range of enemies, including Zorak Zoran. There is Storm Bull rather than Orlanth, Maran Gor rather than Inora, and Zorak Zoran as himself (see RQG Bestiary p.145).

 

 

 

[scott-martin]

15 minutes ago, Joerg said:

So the barbarian warrior identified as Oralanatus by the author(s) of The Fortunate Succession could have been Elmal?

I would hate to antagonize long-suffering fans of the suffering sun but . . . in this model, the young god that came down to Dara Happa might have been called something like Orlan or Uma but in his aspect he combined what we now think of as sky and storm traits. This is how Orlan (Uma) participates in the 109 war in heaven united with Antirius because at that time it was possible to consider them the same person.

Over the decades that follow the Council of Friends encounters sufficiently advanced magical resistance that its pantheon changes. Previously gentle deities discover harder, more martial aspects. Under pressure, Orlan dissociates into at least two brothers and possibly others we don't know much about today. One is always rebellious, disorderly, friendly to trolls, trouble when he walks in. His birthright becomes modern Orlanth with a side of Humakt. 

The other brother is more conciliatory, obeys orders, open to accepting a subsidiary role in the herd or city. "Brighter." Ironically in places where Orlanth becomes urbane this side of the birthright takes over and "storm" rises to consolidate solar virtues. In the fullness of the Dawn Age some communities went one way and some went the other.

This was useful magic to exploit in the rivalry between Council and Empire as prophets on both sides wielded identification like a scalpel before the condominium emerges under solar control. We don't know a lot about how the early dynasties shaped the local hero plane on the way to establishing their (Y)ELM. I think the crucial phoneme to track is the "L" that separates HYEMA from EYHMA. You can derive a YELMAL from HYUMA as long as you can find an "L," and once you have YELMAL you've already differentiated away from HYUMA toward YELM. 

Another way to put this is that unless HYUMA finds an L, he can't become a sun. If YELMAL loses his L, he can't become a sun. And of course HYORMAL the "trickster" is the transitional stage. I think this is the god the lightbringers really carried. The god who stayed home retained more of his HYUMA traits but also won an L, becoming modern HYORLA or "HYORLAT".

Orlan cultures that collaborated with Nysalor ("high" storm) vanish from polite history in the bright empire collapse. Those that rejected the high way were exiled like trolls and dragons and (re)discover latent connections to those elder systems. On the "Antirius" side, low expressions die out except as atavistic throwbacks within the storm periphery, sky clans embedded in storm tribes. 

Parallel evolution survives in places like the Two Brothers religion of Yngortu where the split took places lower down the elemental scale. Zorak Zoran is another of the pieces that falls out when the young god crashes. Maybe all the Hill of Gold participants are really masks of the esoteric Four Magic Weapons cults from an archaic era now almost forgotten.

The HYUL/OR thing is extremely interesting because there are hints (from before the computer game) here and there that this was the original culture that migrated into Kethaela, possibly from the west along routes now lost.  These might have been more of the Ralian pony people (possibly with unicorns and other fantastic breeds) but the important factor here is that the Horse Lords by definition had expertise in breaking horses. The humiliation of Hippogriff must have horrified and twisted the Council.

SUMMARY: All Orlanth clans are theoretically "horse clans." The original lightbringer deity was the trickster, relegated to a secondary role when Harmast in his desperation rectified the Quest and handed out parts.

[Joerg]

Eurmal, Friend of Men, the Firebringer. Reviled and ridiculed, the Gloranthan Prometheus, instrumental in bringing Change. The original murderer.

 

For linguistic shenanigans, I still won't look much further than Harald Smith's Yurmalio and Orlanthio.

 

In the Gods War, Orlanth conquers the Sky World, then defends it with much success against the Sky Terror during the Greater Darkness before setting off on the LBQ. King of the World may be his title, but he really is lord over the upper worlds. Jagrekriand, his eternal rival, operates from his Underworld abode in Alkoth by the name of Shadzor(ak Zoran) rather than interfere with celestial matters. Tolat, Jagrekriand's celestial face, takes care of the Churanpur demigoddesses, instituting the Marazi of Trowjang. Probably thanks to his Blue Moon alliance, Tolat escapes the utter failure of Shargash against the Flood.

 

Uma becomes part of Yu-elm through the application of Eurmal's Sword.

 

[Leingod]

45 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Eurmal, Friend of Men, the Firebringer.

And according to one of the many contradictory backstories he's given in the Sartar Companion, also Yelm's son.

Quote

Eurmal began as a bastard child of the Emperor, begotten on an unclean serving maiden whose presence in the Emperor’s Palace was illegal and shameful. When the child was born the Emperor cast him out, but the mother begged for some way that the child may be accepted by his father. The Emperor said, “If he saves my life, destroys my enemies and never reveals his origins, there is a chance.” And so Eurmal did those things.

Also there's a name (and power) mentioned that's suspiciously familiar:

Quote

In these adventures he was often killed, such as when he was caught cuckolding Lightface, who angrily made him into the first living target for his spears.

Lightface throwing spears, huh?

Edited July 29, 2021 by Leingod

[Eff]

Plentonius insists that Shargash was the one to bridle Kargzant. But Shargash also produces thunder and lightning, and we might well believe he has red hair. Perhaps this is simply Plentonius putting an acceptable face on Orlanatus, or perhaps there's some kind of deeper connection here. (Perhaps Shargash is simply something that has power and can motivate anyone and everyone when the Sky is imperfect. But whatever it is, we have some kind of triplicate interaction at a minimum going on here- Shargash/Sedenya/Orlanth, (Sh)Arga(sh), not far from Argan Argar or from Arkat, Nysalor, which I can't break down for linguistic games as of yet, and Orlanth/Harmast/Hyalormast/Humat.)

So, let's take a different tack. We all know that there are seven colors in the rainbow. Now add black (or shading), white (or tinting) and gray (or neutral). That's ten. Ten planets in the Perfect Sky. There was a white planet, until she danced with Umath and bled all over herself/had a Carrie moment. There was a red planet, for sure. I suspect that, as there were later blue planets, that there was one at this point as well, and a green one for sure. A yellow planet, absolutely. The real questions: orange, purple, grey/neutral/clear. Can we identify these?