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Your Dumbest Theory


scott-martin

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5 hours ago, scott-martin said:

I've been hunting the "Dragon Ernalda" who apparently vanished or was transformed when the EWF system evaporated and think we've found her. One of the reasons this thread exists!

I will also note that -- however distantly-descended, minimized, and mythologized -- the Earth/Ernalda sacred link to serpents is almost certainly proof that your hunt is on the right track ...

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1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

Hmm. Giants seem to have some connection to the earth, and there was allegedly some sort of war between dragons and giants in the distant pre-mythic godtime. I wonder if that's related somehow.

Perhaps a deeply heretical explanation for the Ernaldan Earth model prevailing over the Genertian?

(and yes I know they're different types of giants, I know. but what if they weren't?)

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5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

my personal interpretation of this was basically that the entanglement of the failed Dragonewts WAS becoming the children of Maran Gor.

Same difference, tbh, no point in chicken (or dinosaur) before the egg semantics, I think we're broadly in agreement here 🙂

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5 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I either made a post or a topic about this a while ago, and my personal interpretation of this was basically that the entanglement of the failed Dragonewts WAS becoming the children of Maran Gor. I don't know the exact mechanism, but I personally find that to be a neater overall explanation. 

Or, Maran in her serpentine form entangled the Earth Dragon (or the Inhuman King), and their offspring were the dinosaurs.  Those dragonewts whose meditations subsequently lead them along the path of the Earth Dragon may in turn become ensnared by the wiles of Maran and become (next incarnation) dinosaurs too.

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5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Or, Maran in her serpentine form entangled the Earth Dragon (or the Inhuman King), and their offspring were the dinosaurs.  Those dragonewts whose meditations subsequently lead them along the path of the Earth Dragon may in turn become ensnared by the wiles of Maran and become (next incarnation) dinosaurs too.

Embracing the pro-materialness of Maran/The Earth, etc. (Including, but not limited to, of course, enjoying food, enjoying sexual procreation, nurturing parent-child relations, passionate/vivacious/life-affirming cooperation and competition, and potentially theistic worship even blood sacrifice, depending on how you view dinos in Glorantha, I dunno.). A kind of affirmation of the here and now that the Draconic path could never accommodate, but which I imagine someone like Maran* and Earth in general is welcoming of.

Compare and contrast the overall "degradation" from the Dragon Rune to the Beast Rune and the whole Serpent Earth symbology. There's probably some Green Age parallels there. A degradation from the perspective of the Dragons, joyous actualization and diversification from the perspective of Earth. Or you know, something like that.

(*When she's not busy clobbering heads and being symbolically barren.)

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To summarize, as it does not look like a dumb theory any more.

Maran, before she became Gor, was a fertility goddess in Dragon Pass and had her entanglements with the Earth Dragon, or the Brown Dragon, or maybe any Dragon she could tangle with. As fertile earth, she had children, the dinos, Some of them followed more like their father(s), and were nurtured by the Dragon(s), included nests and eggs. 

During the Gods War her non-draconic children were killed, while the draconic survived. In her pain she adopted the Gor and changed Life for Death. However once in time the Dragonewts that fail the stringent path to rightness revert back to beasts. Maran Gor is now barren, but she is still their mother, and cares and protects them.

As an aside, there may have been a Dinosaur or a failing Dragonewt hero involved, as this seems a change that took place after the Compromise.

I would expect Maran Gor to appear as a tempttress to Dragonewts so they take the easy way... New Wyrmish is a Dragonewt / Dinosaur hero, working either to reconcile both, or just looking for a different path than dragonhood. And doing their best to increase the number of Dinosaurs. And it is an good excuse to reuse Ladygolem's image that started it all...

image.png.310395bde4328b18698258fd379215

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Running off of something that's slightly ancillary to the Shaker Temple thread:

The elemental associations of animal phyla are primarily adoptive. Hykim/Mikyh plays out every iterative possibility from the base draconic form, producing a great many forms of animal life that live and many that die, but as dragons they are not equipped to actually care for their offspring. So the elemental courts divide up animals based on simple associations- Darkness takes invertebrates, Water takes fishes, Fire takes birds, Air takes mammals- but reptiles, cladistically undefinable as monophyletic, are adopted by Earth because of their multiplicity of origin, and then the animals that nobody wants to deal with, the bats, the foxes, possibly the hummingbirds if you believe Lives of Sedenya, the moonlight butterflies, etc. are all handed off to Moon, who graciously adopts them and their rambunctious ways. 

(This is perhaps extensible to plants as well, though slorifings appear to include both the haploid-dominant mosses, ferns, liverworts, and hornworts and the fungi/bacteria hybrid lichens, suggesting they may be a kind of pure Plant Rune family unassociated elementally...)

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Though a Lunar through and through, she is also a human being.

"I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010

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1 hour ago, Eff said:

(This is perhaps extensible to plants as well, though slorifings appear to include both the haploid-dominant mosses, ferns, liverworts, and hornworts and the fungi/bacteria hybrid lichens, suggesting they may be a kind of pure Plant Rune family unassociated elementally...)

For my on-and-off-again Northern Pent project, I posited a hypothetical "non-vascular plant" Elf (mosses, liverwort, etc.) that are separate from Aldryami, but like other Plant People tend to be drawn to Aldrya and Aldryami where they can. I thought they would mostly take the form of Will-o-Wisps or Sprites, which sorta goes well with the whole peat bog imagery, etc. 

On another note, it still bugs me a little how ALL sea life is given the same "monophyletic" mother in Triolina. It just feels... weirdly shallow, I guess?
EDIT: I guess it just mirrors Ernalda/Gata.

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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53 minutes ago, Eff said:

The elemental associations of animal phyla are primarily adoptive. Hykim/Mikyh plays out every iterative possibility from the base draconic form, producing a great many forms of animal life that live and many that die, but as dragons they are not equipped to actually care for their offspring. So the elemental courts divide up animals based on simple associations- Darkness takes invertebrates, Water takes fishes, Fire takes birds, Air takes mammals- but reptiles, cladistically undefinable as monophyletic, are adopted by Earth because of their multiplicity of origin, and then the animals that nobody wants to deal with, the bats, the foxes, possibly the hummingbirds if you believe Lives of Sedenya, the moonlight butterflies, etc. are all handed off to Moon, who graciously adopts them and their rambunctious ways. 

A different way to phrase the above is, I think, that Hykim/Mikyh treat each element as a "biome" rather than an explicit parental figure. Something to diversify "into" rather than "with". 

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The theories are getting too not-dumb.

Okay: the Lunar Emperor is just trying to redo the path of the Inhuman King and ascend to a theistic version of a Dragon -- a being of essentially-godlike power, but ascended beyond the Material/Spiritual World (since power is also a distraction, a thing of the World). The Moon is his egg.

Edited by AlHazred
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ROLAND VOLZ

Running: nothing | Playing: Battletech Hero, CoC 7th Edition, Blades in the Dark | Planning: D&D 5E Home Game, Operation: Sprechenhaltestelle, HeroQuest 1E Sartarite Campaign

D&D is an elf from Tolkien, a barbarian from Howard, and a mage from Vance fighting monsters from Lovecraft in a room that looks like it might have been designed by Wells and Giger. - TiaNadiezja

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2 hours ago, Godweyn said:

All the cities and places important to Mostali in the world are connected underground by a train-like machine called the Stonepiercer.
This is also the true origin of earthquakes.

The Stonepiercer requires a supply of living sacrifices to remain powered. These sacrifices are drawn from a caste of specially-bred mortal races who live in squalor in the rear compartments of the Stonepiercer. The Mostali who maintain the machine reside in cars closer to the engine car at the front, where they perform mysterious functions that maintain the magic: these rituals resemble hedonistic balls held by Lunar aristocrats, but actually have a serious magical purpose.

Some who are aware of the Stonepiercer believe that the resemblance of the rituals to hedonistic parties isn't accidental, but is an example of sympathetic magic, and that the Mostali are secretly controlling the ebb and flow of Lunar politics in this fashion.

Edited by AlHazred
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ROLAND VOLZ

Running: nothing | Playing: Battletech Hero, CoC 7th Edition, Blades in the Dark | Planning: D&D 5E Home Game, Operation: Sprechenhaltestelle, HeroQuest 1E Sartarite Campaign

D&D is an elf from Tolkien, a barbarian from Howard, and a mage from Vance fighting monsters from Lovecraft in a room that looks like it might have been designed by Wells and Giger. - TiaNadiezja

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6 hours ago, AlHazred said:

The Moon is his egg.

2 hours ago, Godweyn said:

This is also the true origin of earthquakes.

Mostal had a wife and she was the mother of earthquakes, not a rock lord but an inhuman queen. Not even the shakers remember now, of course. But oh how they dance.

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18 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Mostal had a wife and she was the mother of earthquakes, not a rock lord but an inhuman queen. Not even the shakers remember now, of course. But oh how they dance.

Whar kind of tool would a wife of the World Machine be?

If Mostal had a wife, it may have been Grower, one of the few beings of equivalent status to the World machine/Maker.

Growth is a necessity to replace that which was used to Make. It is the part of Creation Mostal is unable to provide. Mostal is the balancer of Growth and Creation, his Making transforms that which is brought into the world into stability and continued existence. Making always comes with losses, and those losses require replacement as much as recycling.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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On 2/11/2022 at 12:19 AM, scott-martin said:

Mostal had a wife and she was the mother of earthquakes, not a rock lord but an inhuman queen. Not even the shakers remember now, of course. But oh how they dance.

Making the earth move for them.

 

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

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The Eel-ariash breeding plan was ultimately a failure. The child they engineered was born, in the appropriate time and with all the signs in place, but she was ultimately an ordinary child, one who would have broken like others have, in the lengthy process of experimentation. The Red Goddess saw this, and saw that there was another child, far away from the Eel-ariash birthing center, one who would, given the chance to become Jar-eel and enjoy every minute of it, and Her hands reached out, shuffling matters in a three-card monte of lives... and when all was said and done, both girls got lives they're enjoying. And the Eel-ariash believe they're winning still. But the house always wins in the end.

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Though a Lunar through and through, she is also a human being.

"I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010

Eight Arms and the Mask

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On 2/17/2022 at 10:17 PM, Eff said:

another child

Why stop at two [Jar] Eels? Surely she encompasses multitudes!

--[ * ] --

God Learner claims that the Elder Races had gone extinct (or more precisely were converted) within their territory are actually grounded in empirical exploratory data. However they failed to anticipate the recidivism rates when the empire shifted into reverse; terminal second age as shadowrun scenario.

singer sing me a given

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18 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

Why stop at two [Jar] Eels? Surely she encompasses multitudes!

--[ * ] --

God Learner claims that the Elder Races had gone extinct (or more precisely were converted) within their territory are actually grounded in empirical exploratory data. However they failed to anticipate the recidivism rates when the empire shifted into reverse; terminal second age as shadowrun scenario.

image.png.f537569cc4e2fd9ae3a555b6e6ea4b83.png

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Though a Lunar through and through, she is also a human being.

"I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010

Eight Arms and the Mask

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Grandfather Mortal and Triolina are named as the parents of Phargon. Malkion and Jeleka are the parents of Waertag.

The Sourcebook has changed the text about the Wartain mertribe (originally published in Wyrm's Footprint, absent from the issue that discusses the Neliomi Sea and the Malkioni campaign run by Charlie Krank) from Wartain to Waertag, resulting in Waertag the Boat/Dragonship builder being the descendant of Waertag (formely Wartain) the mer-king of the Neliomi Sea.

While I doubt that Wartain/Merking Waertag was one of the ten Tritons, there is some likelihood that he was at most two generations distant from the Tritons, and one more from Phargon.

In the West, Malkion is the equivalent of Grandfather Mortal - ancestor of all the Castes, of all the tribes of Danmalastan, and the person to perish spectacularly in the Fifth Action. Or he is his own grandson, driven mad by witnessing the death of Grandfather, leading Chalana Arroy to the rest of the Lightbringers.

The dumb point I am trying to make here is that Triolina and Phargon are awfully similar to the Ludoch (or rather Wartain niiad) wife of Malkion giving birth to Waertag. Only without the fish tail.

 

I have also seen speculation that of the ten tritons, seven fathered the tribes that would become the Great Kindred of Mermen, while the other three were the Sea avatars of Sorcery, Theism and Animism, and that Waertag (either generation) might be the Sorcery Triton. Again, that minor issue about the fish tail...

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

King of Sartar reads:

Quote

two women in red and a man in crimson were captured attempting to bring slime worms into [Castle Blue], and they were executed

These mysterious, possibly Chaotic creatures? Merely delicious gummi worms. The poor Lunars just wanted a snack.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I see the Hero Wars as actually a war between Time and God Time. I see humans in time as different from the humans of the God's war, even if they claim continuity, because they incorporate chaos in their intrinsic being after the Compromise, and that is why humans in time are easier to turn to Chaos, no longer a threat from without as in the Godtime, but a threat from within. Gbaji and the Red Moon are just manifestations of this inherent chaos.

By adopting the techniques and trappings of their enemies, the winners keep burning the power of the God Time too quickly. At the end of the Hero Wars, there is a forced separation between the world in Time and the world without time, which is actually a victory of the common human over the heroes, demigods and dragons. Heroes fight each other, but what they believe is a conflict over supremacy, is actually a fight over dwindling magic resources, and at the end, they cannot remain in the world unchanged. I see that also the way mortals can defeat demigods.

This chaos in time, or entropy, will cause the disappeareance of immortals from the world, having to choose between staying in the Godtime, or becoming subject to Entropy. Although our sources do not say it clearly, as the Wars progress the divine gets weaker, so humans with power become exceptional, and now able to face the diminished demigods, even if they are weaker than the heroes of the previous generation. At a certain point, Heroes are just similar to the current rune lords, as the diminishing power makes such abilities exceptional.

My last image of the close of the Hero Wars, when the White Moon rises in the sky, is of Jar Eel, a normal woman, dressed in white and with white hair, helping the multitudes escaping the destruction of Glamour, while Harrek can finally shed the white bearskin and go to sleep, something he has not done since donning it. The last Argrath, finally satisfied, leaves the world of time for his star, his work finally over, the Liberation complete, but staying in the timeless side, in case he is still needed.

Edited by JRE
Too many theories for one post, so I will spread them in several. I prefer discussion, not people intimidated by my verbosity.
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