Your Dumbest Theory

[AlHazred]

19 minutes ago, svensson said:

Scotland would be on the sidelines cheering, but a clan feud has broken out over a stolen cow from 500 years ago...

[svensson]

Scotland won't be 'ruined' until the day they stop making Lagavullen....

[AlHazred]

17 hours ago, svensson said:

Scotland won't be 'ruined' until the day they stop making Lagavullen....

Scotland was ruined the day they had a French guy play the Scotsman and a Scottish guy play the Egyptian...

Edited August 5, 2022 by AlHazred

[svensson]

47 minutes ago, AlHazred said:

Scotland was ruined the day they had a French guy play the Scotsman and a Scottish guy play the Egyptian...

Hey if I could hide a katana in a pair of bicycle shorts, I would 'have no rivals' either..... 🤣

[scott-martin]

The Lightbringers are an esoteric demonstration of Orlanth's mastery similar to the Four Weapons subcults but this time reflecting his alliances with the four directional approaches to deep magic. The bearded god is obviously sorcery from the west. Chalana's inner cult maintains the eastern secrets of meditation and transcendence we here on earth lump into the "tara" or other "buddhas of compassion." The remaining dudes are sometimes worshipped collectively as "the stanza of issaries" (or the hyena gospel) and in that form provide access to all the phases of northern spirituality from the most archaic animism through persistent shamanistic traditions and finally something like mainline theism. 

But that last part is a secret and only diehard HQ fans care about the parts in the middle. The important part is probably what it does for Chalana.

[scott-martin]

"Gold Gotti" is a ceremonial role or hero cult buried within the Issaries cult complex and carrying endless historical baggage of pretenders, frauds, rival claims, confidence schemes, bluffs and counterbluffs, eschatological implications, messianic longings, deathbed confessions, funky ponchos and elaborate hats. For most of the third age the title has been mostly latent because nobody seriously wanted to claim it . . . but with the Hero Wars looming on the horizon, a few serious and not-so-serious contenders are stepping up.

Recent claimants include that heretical Esrolian (who argued among other things that as Gold Gotti he was immune to Raw Greed and even wore the priceless jewel of infinite price in a filigree cage around his neck), a couple of Aeolians (also heretical, it goes without saying) and "the other guy." The new one, the pirate king, is a question mark. Some people deep inside Mother Market roll their eyes and say he can't possibly understand what the title entails, that he just asked our word for "richest" and that's what he wanted to be called.

Others who've talked to him say he knows exactly what it means and this scares them. If they're right, they say, expect a flurry of Gogo Gambino / Gaga Gambino sightings to herald the end of the secular age. Nobody outside Mother Market has any references here. It's just part of our thing.

[MOB]

1 minute ago, scott-martin said:

"Gold Gotti" is a ceremonial role or hero cult buried within the Issaries cult complex and carrying endless historical baggage of pretenders, frauds, rival claims, confidence schemes, bluffs and counterbluffs, eschatological implications, messianic longings, deathbed confessions, funky ponchos and elaborate hats. For most of the third age the title has been mostly latent because nobody seriously wanted to claim it . . . but with the Hero Wars looming on the horizon, a few serious and not-so-serious contenders are stepping up.

Recent claimants include that heretical Esrolian (who argued among other things that as Gold Gotti he was immune to Raw Greed and even wore the priceless jewel of infinite price in a filigree cage around his neck), a couple of Aeolians (also heretical, it goes without saying) and "the other guy." The new one, the pirate king, is a question mark. Some people deep inside Mother Market roll their eyes and say he can't possibly understand what the title entails, that he just asked our word for "richest" and that's what he wanted to be called.

Others who've talked to him say he knows exactly what it means and this scares them. If they're right, they say, expect a flurry of Gogo Gambino / Gaga Gambino sightings to herald the end of the secular age. Nobody outside Mother Market has any references here. It's just part of our thing.

As I speculated on another thread, "Gold-Gotti" could be a nickname in the way we use "Mr Big" to informally refer to leaders of crime syndicates, gangs, business cartels, and the like. There are probably lots of Gold-Gottis, some bigger than others.

As @scott-martinsuggests there could be a correlation of Gold-Gotti to the Golden Tongues of Issaries 😚 (and perhaps some Gold Gottis are also Tongues😱)

[scott-martin]

These theories are the same theory, only cast in different language for different styles of game! Furthermore

31 minutes ago, MOB said:

a correlation of Gold-Gotti to the Golden Tongues of Issaries 😚 (and perhaps some Gold Gottis are also Tongues😱)

Thinking about hard assets, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Gold Wheel Dancer glinting somewhere in the mix. Be careful who you pray to!

[Eff]

Some might say that "Gold-Gotti" is a corruption, and in the original divine speech (which divine speech they rarely specify), it was simply "Go-Getter" and Issaries bestowed this title upon the hardest-working followers of his, and their wealth was the product of their labor. But within the world of Time, there has been drift and reversal, and there is no longer necessarily a need to be a real go-getter to become the Gold-Gotti.

Harstoreane the Provocative claimed that the well-known story of how Issaries and Uleria argued over whether it was in fact possible to get something for nothing was the root of this semantic transformation, or "corruption", as he put it. This he derived from the dual meaning of "hustler", and few have found it sensible since.

[scott-martin]

18 minutes ago, Eff said:

Harstoreane the Provocative claimed that the well-known story of how Issaries and Uleria argued over whether it was in fact possible to get something for nothing was the root of this semantic transformation, or "corruption", as he put it. This he derived from the dual meaning of "hustler", and few have found it sensible since.

ISSARIES: Who would steal a cow when the milk flows free? I'm a hustler, not a rustler.
ULERIA: Sure, the commodity may be free but the fetish is what we charge for. It's extra.
 

[AlHazred]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:22 AM, MOB said:

As @scott-martinsuggests there could be a correlation of Gold-Gotti to the Golden Tongues of Issaries 😚 (and perhaps some Gold Gottis are also Tongues😱)

... of Krarsht‽‽‽ The Conspiracy runs Deep (within the Earth)!

[jajagappa]

22 hours ago, AlHazred said:

The Conspiracy runs Deep (within the Earth)!

The Red Worm of Snakepipe Hollow is simply one manifestation of the Tongue of Chaos as it protrudes into the mundane world.

[scott-martin]

22 hours ago, AlHazred said:

... of Krarsht‽‽‽ The Conspiracy runs Deep (within the Earth)!

One of my not so "dumb" theories revolves around Issaries as a cyclical revival of Larnste, enemy of Krarsht, so this checks out. Games that want to explore the parallel rivalry between the syndicates can easily assign the gotti networks to that side of the ledger, in which case these are not nice people.

[scott-martin]

The original way to the Bath of Nelat was through the gates of Slon beyond ruined Jrustela. Since then, of course, the map of the world and sky has changed . . . but if you're looking for the oldest storm religion, seek it in what is now the southwest. As a bonus, this makes dwerulans a little more interesting.

RAUSA: Ehilm? El nombre no significa nada para mí, tal vez sea un recién llegado. Sin embargo soy la nina del sol y la huérfana del mundo.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:39 PM, jajagappa said:

The Red Worm of Snakepipe Hollow is simply one manifestation of the Tongue of Chaos as it protrudes into the mundane world.

I knew there was something 'cheeky' about Snakepipe...

[scott-martin]

On 8/23/2022 at 6:56 PM, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

I knew there was something 'cheeky' about Snakepipe...

Ginijji is the Auld Wyrmish form of the modern Ginna Jar, the effaced lightbringer. Has that one been done yet?

[Akhôrahil]

Orlanth Rex has a huge head, sharp teeth, and tiny little arms.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Orlanth Rex has a huge head, sharp teeth, and tiny little arms.

Thankfully he is no longer depicted in orange...

[Erol of Backford]

On 8/14/2022 at 8:58 AM, scott-martin said:

Thinking about hard assets, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Gold Wheel Dancer glinting somewhere in the mix. Be careful who you pray to!

I think Jaja said that Speaking Wheel become a tounge:

Arkat may have cut out and hidden the Tongue of Gbaji/Nysalor.  If you found it, perhaps it looks like a golden tongue.  Or perhaps it does look now like a golden trumpet.  Either way, it is very likely to have some portion of the spirit of Gbaji/Nysalor (and not the spirit of Speaking Wheel).  And as such its "voice" might tell the Truth, or it might equally tell "lies" that cannot be distinguished from Truth, or it might engage in Nysalor Riddles with whoever found it.

But Speaking Wheel's spirit effectively "died" when he became part of the god.  Therefore, it exists somewhere in the Underworld.  The Court of the Maggot Liege (i.e. dead Yelm) seems a likely place to find it.  What form it takes there is an open question.

[jajagappa]

18 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If you found it, perhaps it looks like a golden tongue.  Or perhaps it does look now like a golden trumpet.  Either way, it is very likely to have some portion of the spirit of Gbaji/Nysalor (and not the spirit of Speaking Wheel).  And as such its "voice" might tell the Truth, or it might equally tell "lies" that cannot be distinguished from Truth, or it might engage in Nysalor Riddles with whoever found it.

But Speaking Wheel's spirit effectively "died" when he became part of the god.  Therefore, it exists somewhere in the Underworld.  The Court of the Maggot Liege (i.e. dead Yelm) seems a likely place to find it.  What form it takes there is an open question.

Yes, either form is possible/feasible, and I'm sure it would "speak" or "sing" its "Truths", likely in the form of Nysalor Riddles (and not the type you need to engage in a contest for - it will speak, and you cannot unhear what it says, though whether you understand it is another question).

It's reasonable that Speaking Wheel's spirit has gone to the Underworld.  Court of the Maggot Liege is as good a place as any, but could also be a "treasure" locked away in Wonderhome (a gift from Arkat to his mother, Kyger Litor), or held by Ty Kora Tek in the Court of Silence, ...

[JRE]

I would consider Speaking Wheel to be one of the fragments of Gbaji that were hidden over the world by Arkat's companions. So it could appear almost anywhere that is not obvious, ideally very far from Dorastor and Ralios.

I would consider the object that embodies Speaking Wheel reacts to the user. If you expect to find the voice of Osentalka, you will find it. But if you really expect a Gbaji tainted chaos artifact, that is what you get. Until it changes...

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, JRE said:

I would consider Speaking Wheel to be one of the fragments of Gbaji that were hidden over the world by Arkat's companions. So it could appear almost anywhere that is not obvious, ideally very far from Dorastor and Ralios.

And even if it were hidden somewhere in Peloria, it could have been carried off in many directions by those who found it and did not know what it was (e.g. Sheng's nomads could have carried it off to the Kingdom of Ignorance or Kralorela; Lunar missionaries could have carried it down the Janube;...)

[scott-martin]

7 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

And even if it were hidden somewhere in Peloria, it could have been carried off in many directions by those who found it and did not know what it was (e.g. Sheng's nomads could have carried it off to the Kingdom of Ignorance or Kralorela; Lunar missionaries could have carried it down the Janube;...)

A trumpet, eh? Separated from its imperial provenance and dispersed into the nomadic outback, eh?

Maybe the "Gold Wheel Dancers" are a lot farther from extinction than people believe. Or maybe they weren't the only species within their overall taxonomy . . . the mysterious "artifacts" of the Fel-Dichi people could have been another expression of their strange object transience or, as others have speculated in the past, the Fel-Dichi didn't die out so much as survive in the form of their artifacts.

https://basicroleplaying.org/topic/6965-bits-of-glorantha-you-ignore/#comment-98555

I'm also reminded of the persistence of runic tools in the early materials, the archetypal Sword and Cup and Harp and Torch and so forth. Yet another panoply of cosmic entities? Not as mechanically sophisticated as the Sacred Bundles of Prax or the Fel-Dichi artifacts, but I don't know if that makes a difference as far as their politics are concerned.

[soltakss]

On 9/9/2022 at 1:57 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Orlanth Rex has a huge head, sharp teeth, and tiny little arms.

C'mere Rex! Whose a good boy? Yes you are. Look, baddies, go get 'em Rex!

[Leingod]

This is a pretty minor thing and probably something that's been elaborated on by someone somewhere here, but there was always something about the portrayal of Fazzur Wideread in most of the material I'd seen that always kind of bothered me. Namely, it felt like he had a bit of "Not Allowed To Lose" Syndrome, which is what I like to call it when a writer never lets a certain character actually fail or lose at anything without some extenuating circumstance to explain that it wasn't that character's fault.

It felt to me like Fazzur was never allowed to lose a battle outright, it always had to be someone else who screwed up. Whenever the Sartarites or anyone else win against him, it's not because they outsmarted or outfought Fazzur or outdid him at anything, it's because the Lunars replaced Fazzur with some idiot for political reasons, or because Fazzur's nephew is afraid of his power and Fazzur has to quit the field to go deal with that, and he'd probably have won and kept on winning otherwise.

Now, it's one thing for a character to just be Alexander the Great come again and they're just the best ever at fighting wars, but IMO, when every setback comes with a convenient excuse for how it had nothing to do with them? It tends to get on my nerves a little.

But, then I re-contextualized it as essentially in-universe propaganda (albeit happening backwards in time from when it would have been pushed for). Fazzur's descendants became valuable allies of Argrath, so in addition to downplaying the accomplishments of Sartarite leaders before Argrath (i.e. Kallyr) by making them seem totally helpless to beat Fazzur without the Lunars tying his hands behind his back for them, you also get to flatter those allies. And of course since Fazzur was also someone who was widely respected even by the Sartarites, they won't object to this kind of portrayal, either, and may even claim it as a sort of point of pride and claim he was the only reason the Lunars were ever so successful against them.

EDIT: Note, though, that I'm talking about the impression of Fazzur and his deeds that I personally got throughout my readings; I'm not saying that at no point in the entire Gloranthan corpus is there any point in which Fazzur loses a fight "legit" or just makes the wrong call and pays for it with no face-saving or blame-shifting.

Edited September 12, 2022 by Leingod