Eff Posted October 9 Posted October 9 16 hours ago, scott-martin said: (unless you're really into Denegeria) Not a dumb theory, but a precondition for it: Denegeria is a Lightfore deity and the prototype of the Young God mythology, and the later Pelandan psychopomp Idojartos is another manifestation of her. The dumb theory: Idojartos leaps into the Black Mountain/palace of Ganestoro. There are four leaping stars known to the Dara Happans. The north and east stars are white, and the south and west stars are red. The Lightfore planet is yellow. The sky is blue, and three of the four jumpers definitely spend time invisible in the blue sky. Thus, we have all three parts of the worldly color progression of the spiral path, with the golden pure deity set apart, but the spiral path repeats twice- once on an east-west arc, and one on a north-south arc. As such, there was one a golden light in the sky that moved from north to south, and because of its absence, many planets drift along irregular paths. What was that light's name? When did they vanish, and where did they go? 1 Quote "And I am pretty tired of all this fuss about rfevealign that many worshippers of a minor goddess might be lesbians." -Greg Stafford, April 11, 2007 "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask
Techpriest Posted October 9 Posted October 9 Trying to piece together the Many Suns/Cold Sun/Lightfore/Yelmalio mythos is making me feel like Charlie Day looking for Pepe Silvia 2 Quote
scott-martin Posted October 9 Author Posted October 9 32 minutes ago, Eff said: The dumb theory: Idojartos leaps into the Black Mountain/palace of Ganestoro. Love it. The Leapers (Haitian French: kavalye yo, also the knights) always felt like a survival from a separate sky system imperfectly incorporated into the solar empire. "They do not rotate with the rest of the dome." This can be the trace of how they got here. I had forgotten that all Pelandan woman have a "denegeria," a spirit guardian something like the "elf" that tries to look out for all Brownie Scouts. Giving her pants and a new name is an interesting way to take her forward into the patriarchal overlay, hinting at why the ostensibly male family of Oria does not appear on the Wall with names we would recognize today. (If "denegeria" is the present participle of "living" then she is a supreme Kate Bush reference: just being alive / it can really hurt.) But like you say Idojartos comes too late for Plentonius, which suggests that the Pelandan religious landscape wasn't eradicated or otherwise fixed in the ancient never never but kept developing historically alongside and in conversation with the imperial narrative. The challenge here is that I don't think records exist unless you in your uh travels discover some. "Look upon Hagu, who was once beautiful." I vaguely recall a reference to Denegeria as the special tutelary cult of Queen Deezola but can't place it right now. Where does Row III come from? What story does it tell? Quote singer sing me a given
scott-martin Posted October 9 Author Posted October 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, Techpriest said: Trying to piece together the Many Suns/Cold Sun/Lightfore/Yelmalio mythos is making me feel like Charlie Day looking for Pepe Silvia It's a valiant effort although I recognize the frustration. Try running parts of the film backward . . . instead of starting with a universal golden age that disintegrates, start with many little local suns that are always being born in various parts of the world, then watch some of them grow toward patriarchal status only to get ripped apart by rivals (including their own jealous father!), go "cold" in other ways, brought down by a pack of disinherited bastards, drift into cosmic exile. One of them eventually becomes the current Yelm. The others circle around, maybe even hidden in separate pantheons. I think about the primal horde in Freud a lot here. Edited October 9 by scott-martin clarify the backward 2 Quote singer sing me a given
radmonger Posted October 9 Posted October 9 In a military context, the most useful application of the Flight spell is to let a rider wear armor on a horse that would otherwise be too small for heavy cavalry work. 3 Rune points lets you fly for 15 minutes at a MOV of 12. But, unless you are a demigod, you will die to mased missile fire well before your time is up. Meanwhile, the same 3 RP would let you ride an average-size horse wearing full bronze armour for a day. 1 2 Quote
scott-martin Posted October 9 Author Posted October 9 19 minutes ago, radmonger said: In a military context, the most useful application of the Flight spell is to let a rider wear armor on a horse that would otherwise be too small for heavy cavalry work. This is great. The rider cultures probably developed a lot of movement magic that we would file under "Flight." ---- New spin on the 7M cabal just dropped, tag your favorite in the comments 1 Quote singer sing me a given
mfbrandi Posted October 9 Posted October 9 8 minutes ago, scott-martin said: It’s a valiant effort although I recognize the frustration. I believe this was our old mantra: The myths contradict each other and we will not play Sophie’s Choice. In which case we cannot use all the jigsaw pieces and make a gapless rectangle (or indeed lozenge). Not all of the myths are true, but we have taken a solemn vow not to rat any of them out and toss them into the kindly maw of Kajabor. That would be just too rude. The Canon Police° — fools all — have options: Hide some of the jigsaw pieces down the back of the sofa in an act of gratuitous thinning. Declare that some contradictions are true — probably with a codicil that little contradictions are fine while whoppers are beyond the pale (in a bizarre reach for intellectual credibility). None of which is to say that there isn’t fun in assembling maximal consistent subsets … and in getting out the fretsaw to make pieces to fill in the gaps. Of course we are going to do that. But the unused pieces are ever calling to us — there are always different, incompatible stories crying, “Me next time!” 😉 —————————————————— ° If you are reading this footnote, I surely don’t mean you! 1 1 Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST
Eff Posted October 9 Posted October 9 1 hour ago, scott-martin said: Where does Row III come from? What story does it tell? Something that strikes me about Plentonius is that when he talks about stars, he describes eight of the stars of Burburstus as "virtue stars" and the later redaction equates them with the eight original planets... which the Wendarian yonic tribe knew as Entekos's necklace, which she wore when rising into the sky as Dendara. Of course, Burburstus is uncoiled when in the astral plane, a wiggly line in the sky, and is really eleven stars, making up the ten planets the Buserian types saw as making up perfection, and the Sun. One of these eleven lights, Plentonius says, was split into the star Burburstus's Eye and the star Dragon, the green star of the Broken Planet. So how about that Row III? Patterns certainly repeat here, especially with the stick figures that imply Selshena may be Lokarnos's balance. Even within the row itself, there are five clear triplets and three more clear pairs, with only Gerendetho, Sagittus, Biselenslib, and Deseeti/Kenstrata standing by themselves. But even they can be paired by shared symbolic associations. Row III, much like the Star Wars prequels, is so dense. There's so much going on. Nothing really from the northwest to east of Raibanth, unless we put Orogeria as specifically Darsenite. West to southeast in a big arc. Something interesting in that, and in Vantestos being in a different row from either Naveria or Natha. 1 Quote "And I am pretty tired of all this fuss about rfevealign that many worshippers of a minor goddess might be lesbians." -Greg Stafford, April 11, 2007 "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask
Orlanthatemyhamster Posted October 9 Posted October 9 (edited) The Red Emperor comes to in the shower in 1628, Deneskerva whispers, 'It was all a dream Bobby.' Fade to Black. Edited October 10 by Orlanthatemyhamster Terrible terrible English. 2 2 Quote
Tindalos Posted October 10 Posted October 10 The Ducks of Dragon Pass are in a time loop, with them first appearing when during the Inhuman Occupation, establishing a population, and then eventually some flee the Duck Hunts into the Upland Marsh and travel back in time to become their ancestors. (Based on what's most likely a confusion between Dragonkill and Dragonrise on page 54 of the new Dragon Pass book) 1 3 1 Quote
mfbrandi Posted October 10 Posted October 10 4 hours ago, Tindalos said: The Ducks of Dragon Pass are in a time loop How do we feel about death rune time loop decay — from Howard Humaktsson to Donald Demon Lord? Spoiler Scrawled beneath the familiar graffito “Bird lives” we start to find “… and Arkat is a duck”. When all four Feathered Rivals are manifest, the End Times are upon us. 1 Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST
Erol of Backford Posted October 11 Posted October 11 Dwarves are the original God Learners. They've used cryogenics since before time generating creatures. Dwarves also taught the God Learners cryogenics so they could conduct research at the Psychic Zoo on otherworld beings. Some of the God Learners are still in this suspended animation state in some caverns in Prax and below the Zoo ruins. They also use the pressurized containers as submersibles and pod cars on their subterranean rail systems. 1 Quote
Joerg Posted October 11 Posted October 11 On 10/10/2024 at 1:08 PM, Eff said: Gloranthan mysticism is consistently described as renunciate and, when properly practiced, rejects the importance of the inhabitants of the perceptual world Much of it is, but the Venfornic way seems to seek unity with the entirety of the material world in order to transcend that. Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis
JayLay Posted October 12 Posted October 12 On 10/10/2024 at 2:08 AM, scott-martin said: Love it. The Leapers (Haitian French: kavalye yo, also the knights) always felt like a survival from a separate sky system imperfectly incorporated into the solar empire. "They do not rotate with the rest of the dome." This can be the trace of how they got here. One dumb theory that I have for the leapers is that they are all "Earth Stars". They don't rotate because Gata doesn't rotate: as below, so above yada yada. This contrasts with celestial storms (and Orlanth's Ring which spirals through the skies), the celestial river (which actually doesn't stay fixed IMG and changes its course through the sky), and the black of Night itself (or the black stars of hell, but I don't have enough RP with Annilha to actually make them out yet). The leapers are then those constant cardinal stars that hold up Glorantha's net at the four celestial corners of the cosmos. 1 Quote
Ali the Helering Posted October 12 Posted October 12 (edited) Why do we accept the Yelmite belief that the Godswall is a depiction of their pantheon? Since we know it has been painted and repainted over Time, if not before, the iconography is massively suspect, as are (obviously) Plentonius' identifications. Edited October 12 by Ali the Helering grammar 1 Quote
Alex Posted October 12 Posted October 12 On 10/9/2024 at 4:23 PM, radmonger said: In a military context, the most useful application of the Flight spell is to let a rider wear armor on a horse that would otherwise be too small for heavy cavalry work. Love it. Clearly there's additional categories of cavalry beyond Heavy and Light: there's the Extra-Light, as above. Then of course there's the Negative Buoyancy brigade -- skybulls, hippogriffs, etc. 1 Quote
mfbrandi Posted October 16 Posted October 16 This is how British government economic forecasting works: Government debt will be falling in the fifth year of the forecast. It is a rolling five years: jam tomorrow, but never jam today. So it is with the dwarf plan to “fix” the World Machine: It will be back on track in five years. They don’t even know what needs fixing … but luckily the fifth year is always five years in the future. 2 Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST
mfbrandi Posted October 16 Posted October 16 (edited) Denegoria is clearly a portmanteau: DENdara GORgorma ORIA The E must be dropped … but look at her dance! Spoiler The dances, which reflect Mexican syncretism, went on for hours. — Chantal Flores, Los Angeles Times, 15 December 2023 Edited October 16 by mfbrandi removed footnote 1 1 Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST
Tatterdemalion Fox Posted October 18 Posted October 18 1 hour ago, AndreJarosch said: I assume there are 2600 riders in the Black Horse, but only 200 demonic horses, so the rest has to ride regular horses. The Horses of the Dead Sun are very long, you see. Each one has thirteen riders. Their charges are absolutely terrible, but you have to give them plenty of room to make a wide turn. 2 1 1 4 Quote YGWV The Mianmo Archives
Eff Posted October 18 Posted October 18 La Femme (Seshna) Likita. 1 1 Quote "And I am pretty tired of all this fuss about rfevealign that many worshippers of a minor goddess might be lesbians." -Greg Stafford, April 11, 2007 "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask
theconfusingeel Posted October 19 Posted October 19 Not exactly a theory, but what do you guys think are cases of mythology changing during time? Like things the god learners changed(other than the explicit things like C&A or the goddess switch), or how you could apperantly get humakt magic through Orlanth in the first age. 1 1 Quote
scott-martin Posted October 19 Author Posted October 19 1 minute ago, theconfusingeel said: Not exactly a theory, but what do you guys think are cases of mythology changing during time? This is relevant to my current reading (illustrations nearby). IMG it happens all the uh "time" at levels beneath the notice of priesthoods or other religious authorities. Sometimes the divergences are associated with a sense of shame . . . the local versions are defective in some way, fail to preserve all the points the authorities consider essential or more often incorporate details that are locally relevant but conflict with the official version. This is only to be expected because the cult periphery tends to lack the resources the core enjoys. But sometimes the divergence originates from the core or spreads to it and the mythology itself changes. Priesthoods fall when they no longer respond to the community's magical needs. TLDR the Sedenyic revolutionaries transformed every aspect of the Pelorian religious landscape they could find. While the empire has since settled down substantially under its own institutional weight, malcontents keep consolidating all lunar ("lunar, proto-lunar," Nietzsche reference) they can find in what to outsiders can look like a crazy or dangerous mania. Like you point out, modern "Orlanth" is a synthetic accumulation of some pre-existing mythological material and a divestment of others that get spun out into peripheral storm cults. So is Issaries and arguably every cult that survived / comes out of the God Learner reconstruction . . . we can deal out all the gods and point at how their cults have developed or deteriorated under historical circumstances. Modern Yelm is not the sun of your fathers, for example. The more obscure the rune today, the bigger the reservoir of hidden / unexploited power to change the world. But likewise, as interpretation around a common rune becomes conventional, the latent energy inherent in the system rises, making change simultaneously more difficult and more rewarding. The biggest opportunity / challenge right now is the entrenched and anomic zzabur bureaucracy. Change their minds and change the world. The world changes from moment to moment. Pay attention and you can participate in that process. ----------------------- I find the talk about FHQ over on the Dragon Pass review thread pleasing but don't want to crowd that thread with esoterica when the goal of the book is to help old hands update their sense of that part of the world while inviting new fans to experience it for the first time. All of it, however, is awesome. For me the MGF of postulating a magical struggle among the mothers revolves around making sure they have as much or more agency as the dudes, which means taking the distinctions that divide them not only seriously as theology but as politics. One day we'll know how the earth element comes through the hero wars, who was right and who was wrong and who, as in the Alice books, will be queen. That transformation is coming. However, this is their story to tell and not mine. I await the coming of the Samastina Enthusiasts to delight my old age (tiresias reference) with the complexities of it. I do think, though, that the emergent "Ernalda" we are learning about these days does not appear in that form in the Hon-Eel system for various obvious and subtle reasons. This is a loose end in the weave that prefigures the sacred politics that will unravel + reknit Esrolia and beyond. 1 1 Quote singer sing me a given
mfbrandi Posted October 19 Posted October 19 3 hours ago, theconfusingeel said: Not exactly a theory, but what do you guys think are cases of mythology changing during time? Words like “physics” and “geography” sometimes mean the subject matter (the reality studied) and sometimes the lore about it (technique and theory). WRT Glorantha, perhaps we can say the same about “mythology”. We might say that relativity and quantum mechanics remade the world while leaving it untouched. Changing mythology needn’t always mean reaching into God Time and moving the furniture around — you might get spectacular results without doing any of that … and really irk the more “muscular” brute-force-and-ignorance heroquesters. Maybe? 😉 1 Quote NOTORIOUS VØID CULTIST
Eff Posted October 19 Posted October 19 5 hours ago, theconfusingeel said: Not exactly a theory, but what do you guys think are cases of mythology changing during time? Like things the god learners changed(other than the explicit things like C&A or the goddess switch), or how you could apperantly get humakt magic through Orlanth in the first age. Everything that non-Brithini Malkioni have as mythology of their own has either happened or been constructed and rediscovered within linear historical time. This is also at least half-true for the Vadeli. 1 Quote "And I am pretty tired of all this fuss about rfevealign that many worshippers of a minor goddess might be lesbians." -Greg Stafford, April 11, 2007 "I just read an article in The Economist by a guy who was riding around with the Sartar rebels, I mean Taliban," -Greg Stafford, January 7th, 2010 Eight Arms and the Mask
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