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Thaz

Barding. Again

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I think on previous threads and by looking at the Guide, SourceBook and art direction we have all established that Barding is indeed a thing in Glorantha.

However I'm _sure_ I recall a reference to this in rq3 and other legacy material but I cant find it for the life of me. Anyone else recall it? Only thing I've found is a reference to *5 cost of a human sized suit in rq2. But I'm SURE there was something in rq3.

Reason being in The Smoking Ruins there is a partial set of barding my players have acquired. It's mix and match and of course they'd like to even it up.    (And yes I have other reasons as some of you know but hey ho spoilers sweetys) 

Thaz

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As far as I remember, all armor costs and weight in RQ3 are according to SIZ, so no need of a special rule, just use the horse SIZ.

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1 minute ago, Kloster said:

As far as I remember, all armor costs and weight in RQ3 are according to SIZ, so no need of a special rule, just use the horse SIZ.

They just price by small/medium/large/extra large (Troll) . I dont think Troll cuts it for Horse Siz

 

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Yes right, but extra large was defined as 24+ or something like that, and was usable for great trolls., so could be used for horses.

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5 hours ago, Kloster said:

Yes right, but extra large was defined as 24+ or something like that, and was usable for great trolls., so could be used for horses.

Cool!

Gonna add some barding to my Brontosaurus that the Asrelian uses as a spellcasting platform...

SIZ 24+ you say?  "One SIZ fits most" says me.

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2 hours ago, g33k said:

Cool!

Gonna add some barding to my Brontosaurus that the Asrelian uses as a spellcasting platform...

SIZ 24+ you say?  "One SIZ fits most" says me.

I was going to use an Elephant as my example but ya beat me to it. Siz 24 Troll =! Siz 37 Horse. Especially when we're talking Iron Barding(!) yes it exists.  Ok no worries I'll toddle off and write something 🙂

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Serious barding (more than just light leather) was basically unknown until the Parthians, circa 500BC.  And even then it was rare.

If you are going with the whole "Glorantha bronze age vibe", IMO it should only be available to groups like the Carmanians, Western "Knights", and Sir Ethilrist.

Obviously, YGMV.

Edited by Rodney Dangerduck

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1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Serious barding (more than just light leather) was basically unknown until the Parthians, circa 500BC.  And even then it was rare.

If you are going with the whole "Glorantha bronze age vibe", IMO it should only be available to groups like the Carmanians, Western "Knights", and Sir Ethilrist.

Obviously, YGMV.

That discussion has been held elsewhere, barding is certainly a thing in glorantha. Remember it's already in the art of published RQG and the Guide/Sourcebooks (and not by accident) and indeed as I mention above in The Smoking Ruins. Glorantha Bronze Age does not = Earth Bronze age and their tech trees DO vary. Barding, Crossbows, Great Swords and a host of stuff I cant recall as I have only drunk 1/2 of my first cup of coffee today, exist. 

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8 hours ago, Thaz said:

Barding, Crossbows, Great Swords and a host of stuff I cant recall as I have only drunk 1/2 of my first cup of coffee today, exist. 

"Bronze Age" Great Swords and crossbows always bothered me too...  😞  Too many years of experience with historical miniatures.

Iron armor on a brontosaurus is several orders of magnitude higher on the munchkinnery scale that our current group would tolerate.  (In a distant past group, Ray Turney had exactly that!)  As always, YGMV.

Edited by Rodney Dangerduck

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9 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

"Bronze Age" Great Swords and crossbows always bothered me too...  😞  Too many years of experience with historical miniatures.

 

I always look at those things as a factor of the difference of the fantasy environment.  In the bronze age the penetrating power of a spear was enough -- more than enough -- to get the job done on a human opponent.  But a Gloranthan warrior may have to tangle with trolls, CON 17+ Broos, heck, even dinosaurs.  Or more typically have to penetrate a protection spell plus armor, or even a Shield spell plus an actual shield.  Sometimes you just need a bigger beat stick.  Similarly, dwarves are clearly vastly ahead technologically of the rest of the rest of the community, and crossbows are a legacy of theirs.  At least they control gunpowder weapons better.  However it is only a matter of time before I let the some PC's hire out the Cannon cult to blow away some Hoplites.  They've been in their since the beginning, and I've never allowed them to show up "on screen". 

Although goofy, I am regretting not including something that is part of the lore.  Sometimes Glorantha is a little goofy.  Bonus points: a death match between the Black Horse troop and the Cannon cult.    My god, I have the figures for that already........

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15 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Iron armor on a brontosaurus is several orders of magnitude higher on the munchkinnery scale that our current group would tolerate.

It would have to be chainmail or some form of articulated scale, but an intelligent brontosaur Rune Lord should be OK.

It always makes me laugh that we accept zombie shark-hybrids, great flying bats and mile-long dragons, but armour on a dinosaur is too much.

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17 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

"Bronze Age" Great Swords and crossbows always bothered me too...  😞  Too many years of experience with historical miniatures.

Agreed for Great swords that appeared much later, but crossbows are a thing of antiquity: Alexander's army used gastrophetes.

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2 hours ago, soltakss said:

It would have to be chainmail or some form of articulated scale, but an intelligent brontosaur Rune Lord should be OK.

It always makes me laugh that we accept zombie shark-hybrids, great flying bats and mile-long dragons, but armour on a dinosaur is too much.

Completely agree. What is important is not that it correspond to our bronze age, but that it makes a good game. There was no bronze age chainmail in real world, but why not in Glorantha, and I'm absolutely sure that no real world human has ever clad is dinosaur pet or mount with barding, wether bronze or iron. But it makes an interesting story, so it is ok (at least for me).

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1 hour ago, Kloster said:

There was no bronze age chainmail in real world, but why not in Glorantha, and I'm absolutely sure that no real world human has ever clad is dinosaur pet or mount with barding, wether bronze or iron. But it makes an interesting story, so it is ok (at least for me).

We've seen chainmail in some of the latest art and I know art direction is pretty thorough (TSR and PP). It may just be that chainmail isn't fashionable/used much in Dragon Pass, Prax, Esrolia or Tarsh but is found elsewhere.  On Earth (and I totally agree Earth should be a rough steer for us not a firm rule) the Roman empire took ages to adopt chainmail from the Gauls Despite it being acknowledged as a good armour and the Legions crying out for it. 

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On 6/15/2020 at 12:37 PM, Thaz said:

They just price by small/medium/large/extra large (Troll) . I dont think Troll cuts it for Horse Siz

 

in the french version (oriflam) i found the cost in two rooms : the market (GM) and the fight section

in the fight section there is something interesting: the cost by enc (for example plate: 270 / enc) and the enc by size (troll, large...)
 

then the formula should be

Your beast has a SIZE

The max size of a troll armor is 25

Then you know how many "armor size ranges" you need: (SIZE - 25) / 5 = range

Depending on the armor, you can calculate how many enc you need in addition of the troll size:

delta ENC = range * (Troll armor enc - Large armor ENC)

so the delta Price =delta ENC *  cost (1ENC)

so the final price = Troll price + delta price

 

With a beast of 100 SIZE :

range = (100-25)/ 5 = 15

If you want plate (8 armor)

delta ENC = 15 * (35-30) = 75

delta PRICE = 75 * 270 = 20 250

final price = 9 450 + 20 250 = 29 700

 

if you want  cuir bouilli (3 armor)

delta ENC = 15 * (7-6) = 15

delta PRICE = 75 * 70 = 5 250

final price = 315 + 5 250 = 5 565

 

maybe you need something less complex/artistic than a human/troll being so you can reduce the price

maybe few smith will accept to do it so you can raise the price...

 

(sorry for the calculation issue, I hope it is good now)

Edited by French Desperate WindChild
mistake i have to fix with cuir bouilli
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8 hours ago, soltakss said:

It would have to be chainmail or some form of articulated scale, but an intelligent brontosaur Rune Lord should be OK.

It always makes me laugh that we accept zombie shark-hybrids, great flying bats and mile-long dragons, but armour on a dinosaur is too much.

The Bat and Dragons are innately super super magical, basically Gods, and vital to Glorantha's deep, rich mythology.

An armor clad dinosaur is none of those.

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5 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

zombie shark-hybrids

I always liked the walking land whale strolling about the Upland Marsh... this stuff is so awesome!!!

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24 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

An armor clad dinosaur is none of those.

I would say it could be all three.

 

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On 6/17/2020 at 11:19 AM, Kloster said:

Agreed for Great swords that appeared much later, but crossbows are a thing of antiquity: Alexander's army used gastrophetes.

Also, crossbows are dwarven imports, and dwarves do have renaissance-level tech.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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On 6/18/2020 at 1:43 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The Bat and Dragons are innately super super magical, basically Gods, and vital to Glorantha's deep, rich mythology.

An armor clad dinosaur is none of those.

And yet an armored dinosaur is still awesome, even if the Bat could eat it in one gulp.  Can a dinosaur seriously carry platemail and a howdah?  29,700L seems about right for the costing.  I know that armoring elephants was definitely a thing IRL ancient history, so why not armor a dinosaur?

Edited by Darius West

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