Gringles

[D]

Good evening, i wonder if anyone can help me. Other than the partial view of Gringles on the front of Apple Lane, are there any other images of the outside?

[Stephen L]

Well, the adventure book in the gamemasters screen pack has a rather splendid drawing of Apple Lane, so you get a very good picture of what the whole village looks like.

https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-gamemaster-screen-pack/

or if you go to red bubble and type in Apple Lane, you get to maps you can get, so you can see for yourself!

https://www.redbubble.com/i/canvas-print/Apple-Lane-by-Olivier-Sanfilipo-by-Chaosium/34385206.5Y5V7

The overall layout hasn't changed from RQii Apple Lane, but the buildings have changed in appearance, for example the timber walled Tin Inn is now stone.  But then I'm not sure how accurate the drawing is on the frontcover of RQii Apple Lane, as the ground floor of Gringle's has a sloping roof in the plans, not flat.

By the 1625 picture Gringles pawn shop is in partial ruins, but almost all of the ground floor and roof is intact so you get a good impression.

The Sartar Companion (HeroQuest) has an adventure revisiting Gringle Pawnshop, but there's no pictures or plans that expand on the RQii Apple Lane.

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Stephen L
Add redbubble ref

[D]

thank you, I'd forgotten about red bubble. the flat roof picture compared to the tiled roof description is what prompted my question.

[Brootse]

18 hours ago, Stephen L said:

Well, the adventure book in the gamemasters screen pack has a rather splendid drawing of Apple Lane, so you get a very good picture of what the whole village looks like.

https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-gamemaster-screen-pack/

or if you go to red bubble and type in Apple Lane, you get to maps you can get, so you can see for yourself!

https://www.redbubble.com/i/canvas-print/Apple-Lane-by-Olivier-Sanfilipo-by-Chaosium/34385206.5Y5V7

The overall layout hasn't changed from RQii Apple Lane, but the buildings have changed in appearance, for example the timber walled Tin Inn is now stone.  But then I'm not sure how accurate the drawing is on the frontcover of RQii Apple Lane, as the ground floor of Gringle's has a sloping roof in the plans, not flat.

By the 1625 picture Gringles pawn shop is in partial ruins, but almost all of the ground floor and roof is intact so you get a good impression.

The Sartar Companion (HeroQuest) has an adventure revisiting Gringle Pawnshop, but there's no pictures or plans that expand on the RQii Apple Lane.

 

 

 

The buildings' sizes have changed radically. They are now only about 1/3 of their RQII sizes.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Brootse said:

The buildings' sizes have changed radically. They are now only about 1/3 of their RQII sizes.

Which is good because RQ2 was way oversized - I don't think people were thinking about how large a meter is and how large a building would actually be.

[Brootse]

54 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Which is good because RQ2 was way oversized - I don't think people were thinking about how large a meter is and how large a building would actually be.

Yeah, Gringle's "pawnshop" was a huge stone mansion, fit for a king. But it's understandable from a scenario standpoint, since a huge house was a more interesting setting. There are some problems with the new map, eg. the tiny stables can't hold 80 horses anymore. I've photoshopped a new version of the original map, which is a mix between the new and the old maps. It's not quite finished yet, but I was planning on printing it on some A4s, and run the new scenario with miniatures on it.

[jajagappa]

21 minutes ago, Brootse said:

eg. the tiny stables can't hold 80 horses anymore.

Unless it's a major caravan stop, there's unlikely a need to stable 80 horses.  If any location can support that, it's probably Runegate.  

[Lordabdul]

9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Unless it's a major caravan stop, there's unlikely a need to stable 80 horses. 

I think Brootse was referring to the fact that RQ Adventures p68 mentions that the Horsemasters' stable can hold 80 horses... but when you look at the size of the building on the map on p70, it's hard to fit that many horses in there (you'd be lucky to fit half that number). It's possible that overflow horses can be tied up outside the building, or maybe it's just that the number wasn't double-checked during editing once the art came in.

Edited June 21, 2020 by lordabdul

[Brootse]

40 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I think Brootse was referring to the fact that RQ Adventures p68 mentions that the Horsemasters' stable can hold 80 horses... but when you look at the size of the building on the map on p70, it's hard to fit that many horses in there (you'd be lucky to fit half that number). It's possible that overflow horses can be tied up outside the building, or maybe it's just that the number wasn't double-checked during editing once the art came in.

It could fit 8 horses in its current size. My guess is that the number just wasn't double-checked.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Brootse said:

It could fit 8 horses in its current size.

Mmmh that's not what I had concluded... Looking at the double-page map of Apple Lane on p70/71, building "14" is the Horsemasters' Guild Hall, and building "13", which is much bigger, is the stable itself. I figured that the double doors on the front might be ~2m wide, making the walls on either side also roughly 2m wide. An average horse length is 2.4m so I imagine this stable is meant to have a row of horses on each side, maybe with the head sticking out of the stall (or not, if you allow a bit of wiggle room to the drawing's measurements). The building is around 12 meters long, so let's stay 10 stalls on each side. That's 20 horses in there.

(not that it matters very much to have a precise measurement anyway ) 

Edited June 21, 2020 by lordabdul

[Sir_Godspeed]

80 horses for a small hamlet, regardless of its importance as a trading entrepot or taxation centre, seems ABSURD. Especially considering how much of a status symbol horses are in Sartar.

[D]

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Which is good because RQ2 was way oversized - I don't think people were thinking about how large a meter is and how large a building would actually be.

i'm building it in unreal engine as a way of learning how to use the program and using the scale in the RQ2 pdf, I worked it out as 56m by 24m with 4m high ceilings. it looks right, but i've only placed the outer walls and entrance way.

[Thaz]

On 6/22/2020 at 1:20 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

80 horses for a small hamlet, regardless of its importance as a trading entrepot or taxation centre, seems ABSURD. Especially considering how much of a status symbol horses are in Sartar.

According to some discussions elsewhere :- Apple Lane is indeed a caravan stop. That's it's point. It was settled on the Royal roads as a stopping point for merchants on the Runegate-Jonstown road. The Scribe is there to collect Tolls. The Inn and Temples for travellers needs. So was Gringles. The Thane/Sheriff to enforce order and patrol the roads. The outlying farms are there to supply the Inn and trade post. 

80 is still well over the mark though. 

[g33k]

I could see 80 horses on an occasional basis, as traders converge toward some great annual market/fair, etc.

1 or 2 horses/mules/etc per wagon (and on occasion 4 (or more!!!(*))), half a dozen wagons per caravan, half a dozen caravans at once, plus pack-trains, singleton mounts, and the resident horses of Apple Lane stabled there...

But honestly, I'd expect such a market-fair to be held during good weather.  I think the occasional huge compliment of horses/etc could be penned in a field (rather than stabled) on those occasions

Also, it doesn't take into account the variety of mounts -- would bison and sable and high llama and etc etc etc all be stabled/penned together?

 

 

(*) Rather famously (at least, in some places), one (real-world) site ran a 20-mule team over a 150-mile transit for some years:

https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/historyculture/twenty-mule-teams.htm

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by g33k

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I could see 80 horses on an occasional basis, as traders converge toward some great annual market/fair, etc.

I believe that there is an annual horse fair/market at Larnste's Table during Fireseason.  This would draw folk from the Jonstown Confederation.

I'd also expect some event at Runegate annually, probably where Grazers come to trade.

Either could bring caravans and horses along.

[Joerg]

On 6/22/2020 at 2:20 AM, Sir_Godspeed said:

80 horses for a small hamlet, regardless of its importance as a trading entrepot or taxation centre, seems ABSURD. Especially considering how much of a status symbol horses are in Sartar.

Apple Lane is absurd if you try to understand it as a hamlet or village. It really is a manorial stead for the richest bloke in Sartar (at least prior to him covering up for the Lunar tax demands), and some of the ridiculous arrangements are only understood in that context.

Think about it - he paid all the missing tax after Fazzur had "offered" him the tax farming of the kingdom (an offer he could not refuse), and he probably topped off one third of the tax from the richest kingdom within 20 days of travel. Granted, a defeated and plundered kingdom, but the tax standard would be towards the wealthy past, not the sorry present.