Investing in Clan Creating & Feminine Story telling

[Shawn Carpenter]

8 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

In my HQG game, the workings of a Lunar witch resulted in . . . 

That sounds like it would have been a blast to play - a great series of adventures that also helped deepen the PC's ties to the setting and each other. That's GM gold.

 

[Shawn Carpenter]

2 minutes ago, Minion1stClass said:

Sleep on the couch tonight!!!

Can I go do it right now!?!

 

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Shawn Carpenter said:

That sounds like it would have been a blast to play - a great series of adventures that also helped deepen the PC's ties to the setting and each other. That's GM gold.

My HQG Orlmarth campaign for the year 1617 ended up as quite an extended set of adventurers.  It all began with the Harvest Games (the old Sun County scenario transferred to the Orlmarth), proceeded on to attempts by the Lunars to disrupt the clan including the noted Spirit World quest and a battle amidst Harvest Festival (which caused the goddess Orane to flee), a journey to Jonstown to find out how to restore Orane and concluding with the Quest into the Underworld to bring Orane back (based on the HQG outline).  So, lots of focus on saving the clan and its associated goddesses & spirits.  And now we're finally into SKoH! 

[HeartQuintessence]

Can we just talk about how people in clans maybe encountering spirits and local regional geographical spirits- on like a daily basis at some level. Someone mentioned an Ash Creek Lady.

 

And my mind immediately turned to a bunch of children playing in a creek and one of them get tumbling into a deeper part of the water and helpful water spirit giving them some help (like Haku in Spirited away (Studio Ghibli for the win)- "and I remember your cute little shoe" ( best line in the movie). And how that would affect a child- and a clan...

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

In my Risklands campaign, several of the players have two PCs, and it tends to form a ”Home team” for the stead (mostly the parents’ generation, with great skills and lots of rune Magic, but honestly having better things to do than cattle raiding or scouting for Chaos), and the ”away team” (mostly the younger generation, less important at the Stead or in politics, but the ones who get sent out on ”adventuring”). 

And then sometimes it’s either all hands on deck when defending the stead, or setting up a specialist group, or one PC spending a year almost fully away in shaman apprenticeship.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, HeartQuintessence said:

And my mind immediately turned to a bunch of children playing in a creek and one of them get tumbling into a deeper part of the water and helpful water spirit giving them some help (like Haku in Spirited away (Studio Ghibli for the win)- "and I remember your cute little shoe" ( best line in the movie). And how that would affect a child- and a clan...

The Eleven Lights book opens with a scenario along that line with the spirit Wandle of the Creek.

1 hour ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Can we just talk about how people in clans maybe encountering spirits and local regional geographical spirits- on like a daily basis at some level. Someone mentioned an Ash Creek Lady.

I figure that different individuals have more or less "proximity" or awareness of the Spirit World and the spirits around.  I've had NPC's (Old Kevadrella for one) who are clearly so close to the spirits, that they are more aware of the spirits than to the real world.  Most of these spirits are small and insignificant, but babble on about their rock, or the rain drops, or whatever is relevant to them, but can be very distracting.  I've also had a couple PC's in my HQG game with strong spirit contacts (Rastigandi, a shaman, often hears the Voices of the Forgotten; Eirlys, an Ernalda initiate, can hear the Whispers of the Earth).

Impressions of particular spirits from childhood can be very strong and important, whether friendly or malignant. Such spirits are likely either bound to a specific location (what I might term Spatial Spirits) or associated with a particular season, or even week (what I would term Temporal Spirits). And then there may be other spirits that follow "trails" or "paths" through the Spirit World and might appear at any number of real-world locations that just happen to intersect with those trails.

Such spirits could certainly be part of an ongoing storyline, whether central to it or simply intersecting it at various points. 

I noted the Ash Creek Lady.  She's the spirit of the Ash Creek which flows down from the Starfire Ridges, borders the Cinder Pits (and with her water powers helps keep the Fire Demons of the Cinder Pit bound in their place), then flows through the Guardian Woods (the most sacred space in Orlmarth lands) before entering Nymie's Stream.  I think she gets her name because her stream carries off the ash (and ashen memories) from where an ancient battle between the Starfire spirits and the old Earth spirits. But she's the nourishing water for the Guardian Woods and its assorted creatures and spirits, so though a minor creek she still has importance in the local "magical ecology".

A Lunar witch helped the Fire demons to capture the Ash Creek Lady.  That meant that Fire demons could now escape the Cinder Pit and threaten the clan.  The PC's had to get past the Fire demons to rescue Ash Creek Lady who was imprisoned in some sort of crystal vase.

Lots of different spirit possibilities though and they certainly differ from clan to clan and place to place.  Here are two examples from my old Imther campaign of different Seaseason spirits:

In the village of Isildon Heights, the Seaseason spirit is Isildon, the river spirit.  The river is a fact of life for the residents there and a lifeblood of the village’s trade.  And so during Seaseason, villagers come down to the river bank to make offerings to Isildon.  When they gather water, they call on him for blessings.  When they bathe, they call on him to rinse away their impurities.  Fishermen venturing along or in his waters in that season offer gifts for safe passage.

 

In the Daltach village of Black Press, however, the Seaseason spirit is Vinetaster.  This spirit demands the sacrifice of old branches from the fire grape vines.  The villagers spend much of the season cutting the branches and burning them, so that the smoke reaches the lips of the spirit.  In return Vinetaster gives good rain that allows the vines to regrow.

 

[Shawn Carpenter]

One of the childhood scenarios in Valley of Plenty deals with some children inadvertently entangling themselves in a rivalry between two spirits. I can't say more than that without giving anything away.

On the topic in general, it's easy to focus on the big spirits, the wyters, spirit of a known landmark, tribal hero spirits, etc., and forget about the smaller spirits that must inundate Glorantha. Being smaller, they have a lesser impact on the world and so the stakes of interacting with them are lower. That's a good thing. Spirit encounters shouldn't always be about saving a clan or village or ensuring the survival of the whole tribe. Smaller stakes make for a more personal story.

Spirit encounters don't have to be threatening. A spirit might actually need the PCs help with some problem that they can't handle because they're incorporeal. Maybe they're locked to an object that needs to be relocated or repaired. Or maybe they want to deliver an adulthood gift to a person who played with or near them as a child. Helping them out may or may not result in a reward, but it's always nice to have a spirit friend!

I probably run spirits entirely wrong, as I tend to think of them as somewhat fey entities. I have a lot of fun playing the smaller spirits, whom I tend to give squeaky little voices and portray as somewhat childlike and impulsive. The more powerful the spirit, the more impressive and self-interested their portrayal. This is probably incorrect, but it works for me and my group, so it might work for you, too.

[jajagappa]

47 minutes ago, Shawn Carpenter said:

I probably run spirits entirely wrong, as I tend to think of them as somewhat fey entities. I have a lot of fun playing the smaller spirits, whom I tend to give squeaky little voices and portray as somewhat childlike and impulsive.

I don't think there is a "wrong" way to run spirits.  They are as diverse, perhaps more so, than the men and beasts in the mundane world.  Small spirits can be both fun and annoying - in my Orlmarth lands, tucked away within the Guardian Woods, is the Assembly of Small Spirits.  Most are things like spell spirits and other oddities:  Burning Cattail, Shimmerwind, Little Rock, the Carved Pawn, the Opposkunk (it's white with black stripes and has a perfumed scent), the Flying Bluefin birds, Old Moss Face, the 6 Green Men, Rust Patch, Blinkr, Ntrd the Gnarly Root, and many others.

Then there are spirits like TaWaKak the Walker and Keeper of the Silver Woods, who is like a giant standing rabbit.  He tends to be more visible, as the Silver Woods are very close to the mundane world - sometimes accessible down rabbit roles or under the roots of a fallen tree.  His den is a collection of "books" and statuary - of things that might be, never were, or nightmares including spirits and even stray shamans that TaWaKak has collected and turned into these books and odd knick-knacks (usually with grostesque and horrified faces).  These are most commonly the dreams of despair of those dying, the dying/faded dreams of men who have given up, lost and abandoned spirits - thoughts and feelings that were lost, but never dead.  Such are the things found in the Silver Woods so a dangerous place to stray into.  For those who do visit TaWaKak, he offers them a chance to choose a book or statue to read or look at - which means they are assailed by, and possibly absorb, the lost thought, memory, or passion (i.e. they gain a Passion in RQG terms, and typically not a good one - however the memory may also have some hidden knowledge, too, that is probably relevant as the individual was "drawn to" the specific item they chose to look at).

 

[Shawn Carpenter]

Awesome (literally) stuff, Jajagappa!

[HeartQuintessence]

That is some amazing stuff.

It makes me think about how a Tula that's able to support Horses, and Koza(Goat-sheep), and regular sheep, must be some combination of Beautiful fertile valley, plains and forest, and how big its going to have to be. And how  close to the spirit world a place like Voria's Garden must be- as it crosses into the mortal world.

 

Actually how do you all deal with that bleed (or existance of a place in the mortal and gods worlds?)

The Story of Voria's Garden is not where the Dawn was born persay, but where Flowers and Animals were said to have helped clear the land *cue Winter Wrap up from MLP Friendship is magic Season *

But thinking about how spirits might affect the world, and shape it. If they are apart of a river, or stream, or hill or forest,  can they push its boundaries? Or be hemmed in, or let loose by the people living on their lands?

[jajagappa]

Btw, this is TaWaKak in the Silver Woods, and also his "den" down amidst (or perhaps just beyond) the tree roots.

 

[jajagappa]

46 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

If they are apart of a river, or stream, or hill or forest,  can they push its boundaries? Or be hemmed in, or let loose by the people living on their lands?

Yes, of course they can push boundaries.  A river spirit spurns the old valley spirit to find a new channel, aided by Heler. The forest dryad sends out seedlings (perhaps burrs planted on unwitting allies) to take over the meadow.  The meadow calls upon the lightning to burn down a tall tree, and set the meadow ablaze to bring forth new grasses.  Etc.

And these spirits will ask for aid in their petty squabbles and local conflicts against other spirits.

I also like to think to the Spirit World as a vast lava lamp that is ever moving and flowing, though there are certain "fixed" points that are close to the mundane world.  But what is just beyond shifts, changes, flows, and otherwise moves about.  That's why shamans are important as they know how to navigate through even though it is flowing around them.

But such shifts and changes bring dangers to the spirits of places.  Spirit "herds" might invade a meadow - could be locust spirits or something more bizarre.  Predatory spirit "packs" might invade and hunt the spirits of Voria's flowers.  And then there are other strange denizens who may pass through such as the Ragman with his ragbag or the Blue Buzzard spirit, perhaps adding stray spirits to their collection, including ones important to the clan.

[Nevermet]

I'm reading through you Google Docs finally.  I love the sheep herding and breeding element, and I can think of a few storylines just about that (under what condition are we willing to trade Kozka to other clans?).  Also, the question of Who Calls To You is an evocative one.  I would totally make a PC who makes constant reference to being called by one mythical group or another

[HeartQuintessence]

Thank you.

@Nevermet

I think the Koza are still /very/ new. This clan doesn't come into existence until 1625, and the Koza have only been recently found- or Hero-quested for- mostly because they needed land they could defend to feed them ( grazing them on the Anwyth's land sounds like a recipe for disaster, but maybe they did.

I realized that the Who Calls to You is a good gender neutral start to someone becoming an Adult and  acknowledging where they sort of fit into the clans view on things is important.

Though I think the Who Calls to You is a rune awakening moment- that helps solidfy a Rune for you.

Actually Go for it, I want to see this character. Tell me about them, maybe it'll help me jump start my own ideas. I struggle a bit because whether heroquest or Runequest the assumption is characters are born by 1604 (I think).

[Nevermet]

2 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Thank you.

@Nevermet

I think the Koza are still /very/ new. This clan doesn't come into existence until 1625, and the Koza have only been recently found- or Hero-quested for- mostly because they needed land they could defend to feed them ( grazing them on the Anwyth's land sounds like a recipe for disaster, but maybe they did.

I realized that the Who Calls to You is a good gender neutral start to someone becoming an Adult and  acknowledging where they sort of fit into the clans view on things is important.

Though I think the Who Calls to You is a rune awakening moment- that helps solidfy a Rune for you.

Actually Go for it, I want to see this character. Tell me about them, maybe it'll help me jump start my own ideas. I struggle a bit because whether heroquest or Runequest the assumption is characters are born by 1604 (I think).

Oh, fun!

I'll make a character by the end of the weekend.

[HeartQuintessence]

People of Glorantha subforms: Lore spot me:

Do any 'Heortlings', not call themselves Heortlings and trace their power and line of descent not from Heort but from his Wife Ivarne? (and so are Ivar(n)lings?)

I ask because my I started back tracing via :https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Ivarne

 In doing so it made me realize that I can justify my clan's existance, by easily saying that Ivarne and Heort's daughters were many and married off amoungst different tribes and peoples, and that the tribe that has formed in 1625 is the  culmination of such bonds reasserting themselves and fate itself working them back into a workable clan. If each of these daughters (let's say 3, marry into say Lunar/Darra Happan- ancestry, Pure Horse People and of course some Vinkotling, that gives reason to be more different?

Or am I over thinking things?

 

[Leingod]

3 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

People of Glorantha subforms: Lore spot me:

Do any 'Heortlings', not call themselves Heortlings and trace their power and line of descent not from Heort but from his Wife Ivarne? (and so are Ivar(n)lings?)

I ask because my I started back tracing via :https://glorantha.fandom.com/wiki/Ivarne

 In doing so it made me realize that I can justify my clan's existance, by easily saying that Ivarne and Heort's daughters were many and married off amoungst different tribes and peoples, and that the tribe that has formed in 1625 is the  culmination of such bonds reasserting themselves and fate itself working them back into a workable clan. If each of these daughters (let's say 3, marry into say Lunar/Darra Happan- ancestry, Pure Horse People and of course some Vinkotling, that gives reason to be more different?

Or am I over thinking things?

 

Well, you don't need to necessarily adopt a whole different cultural name just to get across that you have a deeper connection than most to a certain figure other than the "usual" ones. There are clans in Sartar that emphasize Ernalda (or even other gods, like Elmal or Argan Argar or, in the case of the Sylilans up north, Odayla) over Orlanth, but that doesn't mean they don't recognize the terms "Orlanthi" and "Heortling" as valid terms to describe themselves.

You're considered Orlanthi if you believe that Orlanth is the king of the gods, even if Ernalda is the goddess you venerate and put in a position of leadership ritually. You're considered Heortlings if you accept the laws, rites, and secrets that Heort handed down as correct, even if the things your ancestors gained from Ivarne are more important to you. That's because these names aren't meant to be statements that you think Orlanth is more important than Ernalda or Heort is more important than Ivarne, they're just names that distinguish a wide cultural grouping under a shared name to get across that they hold similar religious and cultural beliefs in common with each other (like "Orlanth is king of the gods and Ernalda is queen," "Chaos is bad," "violence is always an option, but there is always another way," the secrets of the Star Heart and I Fought We Won, etc.).

So you could absolutely have a clan that claims a deep, special connection with Ivarne that sets them apart from others, but they'd probably still be called "Heortlings," by other Heortlings if not by themselves. Other Orlanthi who know them might call them "Ivarnings" or "the Ivarne Clan/Ivarne's Clan" as a nickname or descriptor, though, like how the Konthasos are also called the Wine Clan (and are named after a daughter of Ernalda and Flamal to boot). These are very broad cultural/religious categories that can encompass a lot of individual differences quite comfortably.

[Nick Underwood]

I was inspired by the notion of internal vs external stories to look back over some of the agricultural stuff: thinking along the lines that internal stories will be driven by events and practices of everyday life, and what is more everyday than getting enough food on the table.

Looking at the RQG stuff on agriculture that I'd ignored before, I came across this: "A plow requires two oxen to pull. Among most farmers in the Dragon Pass region, only certain people may use the plow upon the earth, most commonly initiates of Orlanth or his son, Barntar the Plow God." (RQG: p177)

So my first thought was: Typical Orlanthi sexists with their patriarchal appropriation of the means of production.

Second thought was: Wow!! What potent mythological significance lies behind that social rule. Ploughing the land: the violent penetration and scarring of the submissive Earth by masculine power, followed by the casual broadcasting of his seed...  This is not only about limiting women's access to the tools of survival, this is about ritually re-enacting the rape and submission of womankind. Barntar, you dark horse!

How would your Women's Clan respond to the cultural and mythological constraints? 

Do you subvert the social rules (and the narrative) by becoming Plough-women and adopting mythologically appropriate attitudes. (I can plough Ernalda as well as any man...)

Or could you instead adopt a no-plough agriculture that depends on cooperation with the feminine powers of fertility rather than domination? (There is is more than one way to bring a food forest to climax.) This latter option could be something that looks a lot like modern permaculture. But it may also be a more ancient tradition from a time before the windy gods when Earth cults predominated. So as your new clan looks for a mythological voice, it may find it is rediscovering something that has always been just under the surface.

Or, another idea, perhaps you could invert the power relations within in the dominant myth? A shy and timid Barntar cultist has to be coaxed (actually paid!) into action, and is symbolically tied to the plough - now pulled by feminine-associated dinosaurs who scrape Orlanth's brother over the land until the Earth goddess is satisfied.(Yay, triceratops-plough!)

Whatever the solution, women's agriculture offers some interesting opportunities (and motivations) for building the mythological foundations of your clan.
 

[HeartQuintessence]

59 minutes ago, Nick Underwood said:

I was inspired by the notion of internal vs external stories to look back over some of the agricultural stuff: thinking along the lines that internal stories will be driven by events and practices of everyday life, and what is more everyday than getting enough food on the table.

Looking at the RQG stuff on agriculture that I'd ignored before, I came across this: "A plow requires two oxen to pull. Among most farmers in the Dragon Pass region, only certain people may use the plow upon the earth, most commonly initiates of Orlanth or his son, Barntar the Plow God." (RQG: p177)

So my first thought was: Typical Orlanthi sexists with their patriarchal appropriation of the means of production.

Second thought was: Wow!! What potent mythological significance lies behind that social rule. Plowing the land: the violent penetration and scarring of the submissive Earth by masculine power, followed by the casual broadcasting of his seed...  This is not only about limiting women's access to the tools of survival, this is about ritually re-enacting the rape and submission of womankind. Barntar, you dark horse!

How would your Women's Clan respond to the cultural and mythological constraints? 

Do you subvert the social rules (and the narrative) by becoming Plow-women and adopting mythologically appropriate attitudes. (I can plow Ernalda as well as any man...)

Or could you instead adopt a no-plow agriculture that depends on cooperation with the feminine powers of fertility rather than domination? (There is is more than one way to bring a food forest to climax.) This latter option could be something that looks a lot like modern permaculture. But it may also be a more ancient tradition from a time before the windy gods when Earth cults predominated. So as your new clan looks for a mythological voice, it may find it is rediscovering something that has always been just under the surface.

Or, another idea, perhaps you could invert the power relations within in the dominant myth? A shy and timid Barntar cultist has to be coaxed (actually paid!) into action, and is symbolically tied to the plow - now pulled by feminine-associated dinosaurs who scrape Orlanth's brother over the land until the Earth goddess is satisfied.(Yay, triceratops-plow!)

Whatever the solution, women's agriculture offers some interesting opportunities (and motivations) for building the mythological foundations of your clan.
 

Well that was dark, @Nick Underwood . I often think of scattering seed on a field to be a procreative act... ooh.. that was very suddenly horrific. (Not a bad thing, just a different thing.)

I actually think the Glimmerstone Clan acknowledges the nesscity of men and their strength and power. THey have to. Women bear and carry children, its physically a taxing and intense demand on their bodies- they can't be pushing around plows and oxen while heavily pregnant (though I am sure there are some women who do. And with the aid of an Eneralda priestess, the work will be done.)

I do not think they are constrained by it in any means.  Without women, without the power that Ernalda holds literally the world dry up and die. So yeah, I think there are women who plow and drive those mythological attitudes  normally attributed to masculine people, just as easily.

This is giving me a lot to think about and draft, and I'd love for you to read up and comment on the documents in the google docs- mostly because I want to see some of these ideas pressed up against and commented on in the document so I can incorporate them.

The clan was formed because most of their men, were dead, or not yet men. Those first few months after Starbrow's Rebellion failed, and indeed the following years- were hard because the women had to evaluate every single man they came across, under a numb of factors.

I do like the idea of  a no plough agriculture, but it maybe unsustainable in the long run.

Ok that dinosaur pulled plough idea is pretty awesome.

But I think the level of inherent violence that is in most of these methods, paints them in a culture that doesn't work well for them.

This coalition of lionesses (for lack of a better visual) was created from the broken parts of dozens  of communities. Women who had lost their men to outsiders,  and in the case of the few Lunar among them- the Orlanthi who hated Lunars so much that they reduced a wedding caravan, so they Lunars would know the same pain. Not to mention the Grazelander contingent who came into the picture because Orlanthi Windlord pushed for a marriage because she wanted the Grazer's daughter as a wife.

So I think this group is less 'the violence of men have done us wrong' and they would like to symbolically  turn those tables, I look at it as these women have either been chosen, either through themselves or through circumstances to come together and hold their own.

They do not deny that there is violence in the world and some of it is done to women.

But I do like the idea that Bantar Cultists should be coaxed and guided to action (and paid for it). For they are part of the generative force of life as well. But I do imagine that this  is an interesting idea that I should figure out.

I think  a few ideas I can toy with:
1) Bantar  is a Men's God, who's relationship with the earth is quite strong- he works it, but he does have a tendancy to do a lot checking with the Earth- as he knows that Ernalda's blessing should be conversed with and understood before you go  trying to use it.

2)Dino pulled plows- not a bad idea, but the fertilizer from Oxen is probably better for composting and they are far more compact that Dinosaurs, Dino-barns would had to be LARGE. And I don't think there is an easy way to give the Glimmerstone clan sensible access to a Maran Gor (Babesteer Gor)- creature sensibly.

3) Women definitely plow and work the land along side their men, since many women are Ernalda initiates from womanhood, I'd think that most young women, during the spring following their ascent (descent?) to Womanhood, would act  in the interest of the clan and work with the men to help speak to the Earth- so all the plowing can happen in a timely fashion. - Permaculture, they do part the earth and plant seeds, and care for them but they do it sustainably.  (Which I like). So maybe it is Permaculture and creating and breeding plants and animals which work with their land- as a source of power and pride.

 

[Nick Underwood]

54 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Well that was dark

On reflection, yes. And I apologise. Maybe I have spent too much time in Dorastor recently... 

54 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Ok that dinosaur pulled plough idea is pretty awesome.

Not mine. It's straight out of King of Dragon Pass - in reality it likely requires more food input than the increased output, and leads to terrible soil compaction... Not a sensible option, I agree. 

54 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

I do like the idea of  a no plough agriculture, but it maybe unsustainable in the long run.

Actually, it is likely a viable option that some modern farmers are returning to. (Ask the elves !) But it sounds like overcoming hardship is a central theme, and ploughing is a hardship that suits your story well. 

My only comment is that this is an inversion of mythologically cemented gender roles, right at the heart of the internal life of the community, and is perhaps worthy of some form of mythological justification - which is, of course, exactly what the Vinga cult does for warrior/adventurers. 

54 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

I'd love for you to read up and comment on the documents in the google docs

Happy to take a look. 

[Nick Underwood]

Great Stuff @HeartQuintessence

Loved the Rainbow-coloured goat/sheep and the Bridle Rites - they really love their horses. (In a sense this is kind of reuniting the original horse&rider beast that existed before they were cut into separate animals - I've forgotten whose myth that is, but maybe your grazelanders bring a connection to it.) 

And you found a solution to a perennial issue I have with clan exogamy! If everyone marries outside the clan, then bloodlines have no blood ties between them and share no ancestry. What is holding the clan together? Only the unifying force of the Wyter? Your solution is a first-class anthropological discovery: same-clan parents may be common, but needs no marriage contract as there there can be no dispute over which clan the children belong to. That will be my answer hereon-in.

I'm not sure I could make comments that would be helpful, rather than just distracting. I'm no Glorantha expert and have little to add to the abundance of creative ideas you're channelling. I'm currently calculating the calorific benefits of spring harvests at Clearwine. Why muddle your delightful folkloric stories with that kind of thinking? They are far better without it.   

When you're channelling the juju, don't stop to measure it.

[HeartQuintessence]

1 minute ago, Nick Underwood said:

Great Stuff @HeartQuintessence

Loved the Rainbow-coloured goat/sheep and the Bridle Rites - they really love their horses. (In a sense this is kind of reuniting the original horse&rider beast that existed before they were cut into separate animals - I've forgotten whose myth that is, but maybe your grazelanders bring a connection to it.) 

And you found a solution to a perennial issue I have with clan exogamy! If everyone marries outside the clan, then bloodlines have no blood ties between them and share no ancestry. What is holding the clan together? Only the unifying force of the Wyter? Your solution is a first-class anthropological discovery: same-clan parents may be common, but needs no marriage contract as there there can be no dispute over which clan the children belong to. That will be my answer hereon-in.

I'm not sure I could make comments that would be helpful, rather than just distracting. I'm no Glorantha expert and have little to add to the abundance of creative ideas you're channelling. I'm currently calculating the calorific benefits of spring harvests at Clearwine. Why muddle your delightful folkloric stories with that kind of thinking? They are far better without it.   

When you're channelling the juju, don't stop to measure it.

Wait.. what did I "discover"?
I don't know if I'd count that as a discovery. Exogamy keeps a clan going,, because there is always new blood. But I'd imagined that the Glimmerstone clan is careful with record keeping- both of their animals and people. B. More and new bloodlines can come into exitance via adoption into the clan (and in the past 10 years, I think the women have had to do that. By adopting someone into the clan, but saying :You are amoung us, and but not yet of us, until you have someone to perpetuate your blood ( sireing or bearing a child) your in kind of this weird noman's land.

[Leingod]

2 minutes ago, Nick Underwood said:

nd you found a solution to a perennial issue I have with clan exogamy! If everyone marries outside the clan, then bloodlines have no blood ties between them and share no ancestry. What is holding the clan together? Only the unifying force of the Wyter? Your solution is a first-class anthropological discovery: same-clan parents may be common, but needs no marriage contract as there there can be no dispute over which clan the children belong to. That will be my answer hereon-in.

It's because the actual blood ties aren't actually that important; it's what anthropologists would call "fictive kinship," they're social ties of family stemming from shared residence, economic ties, and what's called "nurture kinship." They're exogamous because that's the easiest way to keep a family tree from becoming a family tumbleweed after several generations. The "reality" of your blood relation to any given member of the clan doesn't actually matter one whit for the most part. In addition, the clan is considered the basic legal unit of social organization (bloodlines are informal institutions and aren't recognized for legal purposes), and marriage is chiefly considered a way to create and maintain ties between clans, not individuals (the Orlanthi don't stigmatize sex between unmarried people, so you don't need marriage just to have babies), so there sort of just isn't really any legal basis or precedent for marrying within a clan.

Though, yes, a certain level of sex within the clan is pretty much inevitable, and so long as they're sufficiently distant in actual relation it probably isn't treated as an issue.

[Nick Underwood]

11 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Wait.. what did I "discover"?

"Marriage is between people in different clans, not because of ideas about interbreeding, but because it’s a legal thing deciding which clan gets the children. If both parents are in the same clan, this isn’t a question, and you don’t bother getting married."

I think the published material suggests that "both parents are in the same Clan" doesn't happen. I don't believe that would be true for the reasons I gave. Your approach here made perfect sense to me. ("Discovery" because the solution looks a lot like one of those eureka moments when everything we thought we new turns out to be both true and totally false at the same time.)

[HeartQuintessence]

Ahh.