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44 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

What's wrong with that? Dead is dead, right? I don't see why Humakt would care if you killed that trollkin with a sword or a Sever Spirit. Yes, it's overkill, but that's really up to the player IMO. Am I missing something?

Agree, honor has nothing to do with having an even fight. Fair fight yes, even no.

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3 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Agree, honor has nothing to do with having an even fight. Fair fight yes, even no.

Especially since I could quite reasonably argue that casting Sever Spirit rather than Sword Trance was basically going easy on the poor trollkin - Sever Spirit, he has at least a 5% chance not to die, Sword Trance backed by a few MPs and ... well, not so much. :)

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1 hour ago, GAZZA said:

What's wrong with that? Dead is dead, right? I don't see why Humakt would care if you killed that trollkin with a sword or a Sever Spirit. Yes, it's overkill, but that's really up to the player IMO. Am I missing something?

no honour

disturb a god when you can manage it alone

 

you re just a mortal, the god is not your slave, he is the master, you are the slave

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35 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

Especially since I could quite reasonably argue that casting Sever Spirit rather than Sword Trance was basically going easy on the poor trollkin - Sever Spirit, he has at least a 5% chance not to die, Sword Trance backed by a few MPs and ... well, not so much. :)

same point with sword trance, you don't need any god magic to kill a very weak opponent.

 

but your gods may vary 😛

 

Edited by French Desperate WindChild

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51 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

you re just a mortal, the god is not your slave, he is the master, you are the slave

Been to Fonrit recently, have we?

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1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

no honour

disturb a god when you can manage it alone

 

you re just a mortal, the god is not your slave, he is the master, you are the slave

Suffice to say I disagree, and pretty fundamentally - I certainly would never discourage players from using Rune Points as I find the usual situation is that they are too terrified to use them in case they need them later. With regard to that specific example - if you've decided it isn't dishonourable to kill the trollkin, I don't see the difference between using a blade and using your magic.

With respect to the god not being your slave - Humakt is not diminished when you embody him and use his magic. Quite the opposite, if anything - such an obvious demonstration of the power of Death is likely to impress onlookers in a way no blade skill ever could.

Of course YGMV - and it's always interesting to hear when people have such differing opinions.

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20 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

I don't see the difference between using a blade and using your magic.

of course you manage your table as you want.

Are we playing in a table focused on social relationship where passions, personal interest, etc.. are the main challenges, or in a table focused on fight / physical activities (with some investigations of course)  where heroic actions are the main purpose. Are cult a tool for PC or an entity to take care ? All depends where is the pleasure and it differ from table to table

 see the irl situation :

You are on the beach with your lovely partner. You both are relaxing, and profit from you holidays.

Then you want an ice cream. The merchant is less than 2 minutes far from you. Will you request your partner (who is sleepling) to buy it or use your feet to do it yourself ?

Now explore the ice cream heroquest :

  • That is not a beach but  a cave
  • There is no ice cream, but a trollkin
  • Your partner is not your love but your god
  • And your feet are your blade

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

of course you manage your table as you want.

Are we playing in a table focused on social relationship where passions, personal interest, etc.. are the main challenges, or in a table focused on fight / physical activities (with some investigations of course)  where heroic actions are the main purpose. Are cult a tool for PC or an entity to take care ? All depends where is the pleasure and it differ from table to table

 see the irl situation :

You are on the beach with your lovely partner. You both are relaxing, and profit from you holidays.

Then you want an ice cream. The merchant is less than 2 minutes far from you. Will you request your partner (who is sleepling) to buy it or use your feet to do it yourself ?

Now explore the ice cream heroquest :

  • That is not a beach but  a cave
  • There is no ice cream, but a trollkin
  • Your partner is not your love but your god
  • And your feet are your blade

how did we end up with a beach episode in GLORANTHA I SWEAR TO GODS

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14 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

how did we end up with a beach episode in GLORANTHA I SWEAR TO GODS

Got hacked by that ancient deity Indlas Somer from the dawn ages of RQ?

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6 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

you re just a mortal, the god is not your slave, he is the master, you are the slave

Usually Glorantha Gods are IRS, they tax your POW for you to be able to use the road from home to the Rune's Market center...

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

see the irl situation :

You are on the beach with your lovely partner. You both are relaxing, and profit from you holidays.

Then you want an ice cream. The merchant is less than 2 minutes far from you. Will you request your partner (who is sleepling) to buy it or use your feet to do it yourself ?

Now explore the ice cream heroquest :

  • That is not a beach but  a cave
  • There is no ice cream, but a trollkin
  • Your partner is not your love but your god
  • And your feet are your blade

If I combine your 2 posts, I think you have a very strange idea about the role of your master-god-partner...🤨😛

The solution to your question is (also) in Rune Fixes 2 : When casting a spell, you must act like the god and also ask the God to do something. If you stop acting like the god, the spell stop immediately, may it be instant, temporal or permanent ! What is acting like the god may because "This is explicitly subject to the gamemaster’s interpretation" (quoted from Rune Fixes 2).

Keeping the Icecream n' partner : you CAN ask your partner to do it, you may receive a "let me sleep moron" answer or a "good idea, I shall get us some trollkins with chocolate on it"...

Speaking in term of Glorantha : The God will act or not but you won't be punish if he won't... He will punish you if you misused the power of death (by the sword or by the rune). Which mean, if you want to sever the soul of the trollkin because your are too lazy to run after him (no spell effect) but if you want to send the trollkin to the otherworld without making him suffer, TO ME your are acting like Humackt, the spell will work. Humackt will prefer that you let him alive but if the trollkin is eager to fight to death, your HONOR is to accept the challenge not to humiliate the trollkin because of it's size.

Humackt will only scold you if you misuse death by killing a trollkin with your blade or under sword-trance which doesn't want to fight nor kill anyone. In such peculiar case where you start misusing sword trance, the spell should end as a direct warning of Humackt !!! Your house rules are good but the warning or punition should be more immediate ! You should warn the player and immediately give a malus for the next spell cast (when it bother the player the most 😈)

Only Chaotic can be killed whatever the situation, because destroying chaos is saving the world so you don't have to be fair with a disease.

58 minutes ago, Cragspider said:

I don't care if you cover him in chocolate sprinkles, I'd never want to lick a trollkin.

Are you sure because your Chaotic Dragon Snail say otherwise .... 😜

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Not exactly a House Rule, but a House Convention: no honorable PC ever uses Sever Spirit in our games.

It just feel horribly wrong, roleplaying wise.  You are this big buff sword obsessed athlete killing machine.  Wiggling your finger like a 98 pound weakling sorcerer is just wrong.

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1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Not exactly a House Rule, but a House Convention: no honorable PC ever uses Sever Spirit in our games.

It just feel horribly wrong, roleplaying wise.  You are this big buff sword obsessed athlete killing machine.  Wiggling your finger like a 98 pound weakling sorcerer is just wrong.

I perfectly agree, I also don't like the principle as an attack spell but as a way to liberate the soul of the dead without having to decapitate or crush the head of an unfortunate undead.

I see humackt a bit as pluto/hades, the only rightful and human god. He is a strict one, very different than other god, a bit like Daka fal, Judge of Dead. If Resurrection is used to repair aan injustice, Sever Spirit should be limited to liberate one soul not killing people (as I have mention in the precedent post).

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13 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Now explore the ice cream heroquest :

  • That is not a beach but  a cave
  • There is no ice cream, but a trollkin
  • Your partner is not your love but your god
  • And your feet are your blade

lol I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. :) Your table must be awesome, and I'd love to play with you at some point.

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3 hours ago, MJ Sadique said:

I perfectly agree, I also don't like the principle as an attack spell but as a way to liberate the soul of the dead without having to decapitate or crush the head of an unfortunate undead.

I see humackt a bit as pluto/hades, the only rightful and human god. He is a strict one, very different than other god, a bit like Daka fal, Judge of Dead. If Resurrection is used to repair aan injustice, Sever Spirit should be limited to liberate one soul not killing people (as I have mention in the precedent post).

Well let's not forget Humakt isn't a "good guy" exactly. Everyone seems to forget the myth where he butchers a bunch of Healers because he's not happy with them resurrecting people. The Glorantha gods (hell, Glorantha in general) cannot be accurately judged by our own morality (witness the lengthy discussions on whether the Lunars are good guys, or whether Argrath was a hero or a villain).

To me, if you're worshipping a death god and you use Sever Spirit, then that's one of the purest acts of devotion you can have (assuming no extenuating circumstances - nobody suggested that the hypothetical Humakti snuck up and ambushed a trollkin as he was ... sigh ... at the beach buying an ice cream).

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18 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

To me, if you're worshipping a death god and you use Sever Spirit, then that's one of the purest acts of devotion you can have

While I haven't yet formed an full opinion about it and how to deal with it, I have to agree with other people that Sever Spirit somehow feels... off. Or at least super anti-climactic and unsatisfying. Maybe its mythic significance needs to be better explained? Or maybe we need house rules indeed!

My initial thought on it was to take the first sentence of the spell's description quite literally: "This spell acts as a sword...". So my tentative house rule there was to make it into a spell that goes into your sword (or other weapon), and you then need to first successfully attack the enemy before doing the POW resistance roll (and maybe going as far as giving resistance roll bonuses if you have a special/critical hit). Kinda like an anime-style ultra-mega-attack. Because of the possibility to fail, the players would want to team-up for this attack, for example by having all the other characters attack the villain before the Humakti (who would delay the attack until SR12 or something), in order to decrease the villain's parry/block score... hopefully making the whole endeavour into an awesome "Avengers assemble" moment (yes I'm going from anime to US comics in the same paragraph). I haven't tried it in practice however so I don't know if it's any good as a house rule.

Edited by lordabdul
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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

While I haven't yet formed an full opinion about it and how to deal with it, I have to agree with other people that Sever Spirit somehow feels... off. Or at least super anti-climactic and unsatisfying. Maybe its mythic significance needs to be better explained? Or maybe we need house rules indeed!

My initial thought on it was to take the first sentence of the spell's description quite literally: "This spell acts as a sword...". So my tentative house rule there was to make it into a spell that goes into your sword (or other weapon), and you then need to first successfully attack the enemy before doing the POW resistance roll (and maybe going as far as giving resistance roll bonuses if you have a special/critical hit). Kinda like an anime-style ultra-mega-attack. Because of the possibility to fail, the players would want to team-up for this attack, for example by having all the other characters attack the villain before the Humakti (who would delay the attack until SR12 or something), in order to decrease the villain's parry/block score... hopefully making the whole endeavour into an awesome "Avengers assemble" moment (yes I'm going from anime to US comics in the same paragraph). I haven't tried it in practice however so I don't know if it's any good as a house rule.

I agree. Sever Spirit is kind of a boring spell as is. To make it more interesting, its usage needs to be more... meaningful, for lack of a better term. When someone uses Sever Spirit it needs to be a "holy crap, I need to pull all the stops!". It needs to be some kind of last resort type spell. Maybe by making it more costly or difficult to acheive.

  • The necessity to succeed an attack, as you suggest is an option
  • Make it one-use only even for a Humakti perhaps?
  • Or maybe the RP cost depends on the opponent, say costing 3 RP or the opponent's RP pool which ever the highest?
  • Or maybe the contest should POW vs POW+RP of the opponent

The last two approaches would permit Humakti to Sever Spirit lesser being quite easily but would be hard pressed to take down opponent strongly connected to their god. 

It needs... something...

Edited by DreadDomain
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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

While I haven't yet formed an full opinion about it and how to deal with it, I have to agree with other people that Sever Spirit somehow feels... off. Or at least super anti-climactic and unsatisfying. Maybe its mythic significance needs to be better explained? Or maybe we need house rules indeed!

I have to say the spell bothers me and I am happy to hear so many people echo this thought. Perhaps they could adjust it when the spell book comes out. I believe it is not a flavor problem, more of a balancing problem that in its current form also doesn’t carry the flavor of a death god. I would even feel that if it did D10 damage on a fail, or even always a D6 damage to use (with flavor description why and how), it would carry a much more interesting dynamic. Or in its current rules it was one use or if on a failure they gained a fear at 60%. Or... anyway,  I believe there could be even more interesting downsides to using it. But the flavor is missing also.

I think the problem is clear in their own adventure, The Pegasus Plateau, where the villain can hardly use the spell, because it is anti-climactic from a story-telling perspective from both ends, from hero to villain. After all, mythic storytelling is about the inner journeys people take, the demons they have to conquer, so why have a finger of death spell at all unless there might be a severe price to pay for it? This should go for a villain also.

Anyone, feel free to post suggestions or just note it in “Spells that need clarification, or improvement thread”. Anyone but me is probably better as I am yet  to play the game. I hope they change this spell in the big spell book coming out, and then do a revised edition of the current RQ rules at  some point. But change it is important.

 

Edited by Fred
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6 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:
  • The necessity to succeed an attack, as you suggest is an option
  • Make it one-use only even for a Humakti perhaps?
  • Or maybe the RP cost depends on the opponent, say costing 3 RP or the opponent's RP pool which ever the highest?
  • Or maybe the contest should POW vs POW+RP of the opponent

The last two approaches would permit Humakti to Sever Spirit lesser being quite easily but would be hard pressed to take down opponent strongly connected to their god. 

It needs... something...

Making it harder to use or succeed is another valid way to go.

Edited by Fred

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Just now, Fred said:

Making it harder to use or succeed is another valid way to go.

...and I was about to reply "Ah, I haven't thought of that! Ensuring using Sever Spirit will have dire consequences for the user is another way to go!"

:)

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1 minute ago, DreadDomain said:

...and I was about to reply "Ah, I haven't thought of that! Ensuring using Sever Spirit will have dire consequences for the user is another way to go!"

:)

There we go! ;)

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8 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

...and I was about to reply "Ah, I haven't thought of that! Ensuring using Sever Spirit will have dire consequences for the user is another way to go!"

:)

Any ideas as to what dire consequences?

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Perhaps it could have a suitably deadly side-effect - say, halving the caster's CON permanently...

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