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Premiering this Saturday: THE WHITE BULL CAMPAIGN, RuneQuest Roleplaying in Glorantha actual play, on Chaosium Twitch

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9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Effectively it's a scene, battle, etc. with maximum duration of a day.  Next day, you can attempt to be inspired again.

Thanks, that seems to parse!  We've been too strict.  The one issue is that, as pointed out by @cmagnificent, if it is the same "session", you must use a different Rune or Passion.

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5 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

if it is the same "session", you must use a different Rune or Passion

It's really what works for your game in regards to a Session.  If you cross into a new day, etc. within your "session" I would just go ahead and reset.

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4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

It's really what works for your game in regards to a Session.  If you cross into a new day, etc. within your "session" I would just go ahead and reset.

Good point: We have the GM decide what is a "Session".

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22 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

It's really what works for your game in regards to a Session.  If you cross into a new day, etc. within your "session" I would just go ahead and reset.

I tend to like the once per session per Rune/Passion restriction because it encourages my players to explore different facets or aspects of their character in different situations and I can track their usage of their go-to Runes and Passions as a metric to see how I'm doing in terms of challenges and obstacles.

I don't think either way would end up making too much of a difference unless the time scale of the scenario is super important to its structure.

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7 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I noticed that no players augmented with skills, they all inspired with Passions or Runes.  Our group tends to use (and overuse) skill augments because of the once per session limit for inspiration.  Are we reading that limit wrong?

Inspiration with a Rune or Passion lasts for the entire scene (combat, etc.), whereas Augments (generally using a skill) only last for a single roll. That's why using Runes and Passions is often more effective.

In theory you're supposed to check off the ability used for the augment or inspiration, because indeed you're not supposed to use it again during the same session, but I ignore that rule. Instead, it's a vague "only once a day or once a session, whichever is shorter" rule that is, in reality, closer to "for as long as anybody at the table remembers". The reason I find "session-based" rules wrong is that a "session" widely varies from one group to another. This is especially interesting at the moment, as many groups went from face-to-face 5 hours long sessions to 2 or 3 hours long sessions online.

Edited by lordabdul
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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

The reason I find "session-based" rules wrong

The actual rules don't say "session" though, they say "scene".  And it's up to the GM to determine whether a "scene" is complete or not.

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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

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Maybe it was fixed and I need to update my PDF?

(if it was, that would partially invalidate a product made by Infinity Engine!)

No, you're right, it's still there.  But I'd go with the next paragraph: "Remember that the gamemaster has the final say on the appropriateness of attempting Runic inspiration and its duration."

And I'd just add to that that the gamemaster has the say on what counts as a "session".

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On 7/20/2020 at 7:15 PM, Nick Brooke said:

Many veteran RQ GMs stop counting out strike ranks and instead intuitively go with the flow of the story and the game around the table. You won't find many of us admitting it, but you've seen Jeff running the game and you've heard Jason say he doesn't really use them, and here's me saying much the same... go figure.

Ok, fair enough. Since the 80s, I have always used SR as a pacing, or at least as an initiative, mechanism and although it could sometimes go into a rigid order from turn to turn, there was quite often actions or situations the was throwing off the SR order (a feature since it makes combat dynamic) but I also get the "let's go with the flow". It's the "2 actions per turn" that mostly threw my off.

Edited by DreadDomain
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One nice tactic that SR adds is when and whether to cast magic in melee.  For example, your opponent plans to cast Bladesharp or Sword Trance and then attack late in the round.  If you forgo spell casting to hit first, and manage to damage them, big edge to you as their spell gets cancelled.  OTOH, should you fail to damage, advantage them as they will be better in Round 2.

That said, I'm not fanatic about SR and we will ignore them in our next campaign.

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1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

One nice tactic that SR adds is when and whether to cast magic in melee.  For example, your opponent plans to cast Bladesharp or Sword Trance and then attack late in the round.  If you forgo spell casting to hit first, and manage to damage them, big edge to you as their spell gets cancelled.  OTOH, should you fail to damage, advantage them as they will be better in Round 2.

That is a goog example where SR adds a lot of tactics and texture to combat.

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

That said, I'm not fanatic about SR and we will ignore them in our next campaign.

Will you simply use DEX order like Stormbringer?

Back on topic, I believe episode 2 is now available!

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On 7/20/2020 at 2:15 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Many veteran RQ GMs stop counting out strike ranks and instead intuitively go with the flow of the story and the game around the table. You won't find many of us admitting it, but you've seen Jeff running the game and you've heard Jason say he doesn't really use them, and here's me saying much the same... go figure.

This is all fine, but it really makes me wonder: did Chaosium keep the SR system more or less "as is" for backwards compatibility? Is RQG an intermediate step towards the more streamlined version of the rules that the authors really want? I've seen RQ GMs (including Steve Perrin) mentioning how they hand-wave or house-rule the SR system all the way back to the 90s or 80s, so this is definitely not new... so why not distill these decades of tweaks into the new edition? And, the most baffling thing of all to me: one of the main points of posting an actual play on YouTube is to show people how the game is run, so why are Jason and Jeff and everybody else running a modified version of the game? That's an odd way to introduce the game to potential new players.

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One minor thing I've noticed watching the first video, and the first part of the 2nd video, is that Jeff doesn't call for POWx5 rolls when Kulbrast casts spirit magic spells from matrices.  Is that a rule I don't know or is he just being slightly nice?

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A bit OT, but watching Nisk being so big on Meditate to regain MP...

We are currently playing the Pegasus Plateau scenario, with the contests, and my Vingan has declined to even try to enter the "magic contest", which involves long Meditations.  Why?  Her Mobility Rune is 95%!  I frankly don't see Meditate being much of a skill for a "good Orlanthi".  Is this off base?

Not sure what Nisk's Mobility Rune is...

P.s. Sorry if this seems nitpicky.  The major parts of the game are all very well done, and the players are doing a great job replaying.  So I'm left with pretty minor comments!

Edited by Rodney Dangerduck

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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

This is all fine, but it really makes me wonder: did Chaosium keep the SR system more or less "as is" for backwards compatibility? Is RQG an intermediate step towards the more streamlined version of the rules that the authors really want? I've seen RQ GMs (including Steve Perrin) mentioning how they hand-wave or house-rule the SR system all the way back to the 90s or 80s, so this is definitely not new... so why not distill these decades of tweaks into the new edition?

Fair question. It's probably a good question for: 

EDIT: I just looked at the trend and I actually asked a fairly similar question (but prompted by something different) on the 18th June. No answer as been given yet.

Quote

And, the most baffling thing of all to me: one of the main points of posting an actual play on YouTube is to show people how the game is run, so why are Jason and Jeff and everybody else running a modified version of the game? That's an odd way to introduce the game to potential new players.

My suspicion is these actual plays come from the angle of "Hey, we are already playing our normal campaign. Why not make it available for people to watch? Extra advertisement for only a little more effort" rather than "Let's organise a campaign to promote our game by showcasing how it works and how fun it is". 

The former does not help a lot when it comes to understanding how the game works (if you do not know the game, how do you know if it is done by the rules, house-ruled or handwaved?) but it still gives an insight on how the game can flow.

Edited by DreadDomain

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2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

One minor thing I've noticed watching the first video, and the first part of the 2nd video, is that Jeff doesn't call for POWx5 rolls when Kulbrast casts spirit magic spells from matrices.  Is that a rule I don't know or is he just being slightly nice?

I don't remember that (do you have a timestamp?) but it's possible the player is rolling on his own and not saying anything unless he rolls anything else than a normal success?

I've noticed a few other house rules that Jeff occasionally uses:

  • Statement of Intent in ascending DEX order. I know some other people around here do it in ascending INT or DEX+INT order. I've considered doing this since I saw this trick done in Godlike years ago.
  • Using the Pendragon/HQ way of resolving opposed rolls, i.e. highest roll that succeeds. Arguably this is to avoid the "unresolved situation" outcome of a tie and keep the game going quickly... but I find it ironic since Jeff said they had considered using that mechanic during development, but ruled it out. :)
  • Preventing characters from using augments in a combat. Not sure why.
1 hour ago, DreadDomain said:

My suspicion is these actual plays come from the angle of "Hey, we are already playing our normal campaign. Why not make it available for people to watch? Extra advertisement for only a little more effort" rather than "Let's organise a campaign to promote our game by showcasing how it works and how fun it is".

For the White Bull campaign yeah, sure, but there were other one-shot actual plays done specifically for promotion on other people's channels and during conventions.

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5 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

For the White Bull campaign yeah, sure, but there were other one-shot actual plays done specifically for promotion on other people's channels and during conventions.

Then it these cases, not showcasing the rules, or at the very least following them, is a bit baffling.

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25 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I don't remember that (do you have a timestamp?)

Don't have timestamps, but when Kulbrast  healed his arm against the assasins, and cast Glamour when debating Nisk in the 2nd session.  But, as you say, maybe the players are rolling behind the scenes?

Edited by Rodney Dangerduck

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5 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

Then it these cases, not showcasing the rules, or at the very least following them, is a bit baffling.

Personally, I think that POWx5% rolls for Spirit Magic are tedious and don't normally use them.

However, the idea of the "Official" Game Sessions being a showcase for RQG and should follow the rules makes some sense. A lot of people watch these videos in order to pick up how the rules work. If Chaosium GMs don't follow the rules then it is confusing to new Players and GMs who are simply trying to understand the rules.

 

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On 7/21/2020 at 10:34 PM, lordabdul said:

This is all fine, but it really makes me wonder: did Chaosium keep the SR system more or less "as is" for backwards compatibility?

I think the game needs to present a fairly rigorous "default" that works for groups that would otherwise descend into argument. When I was a teenager and a student, we used Strike Ranks quite carefully and by-the-book. We had some fairly toxic and childish players around, and the strict rules framework of RQ3 helped to keep the peace. The core rules need to keep that kind of person in mind. Regular gaming groups will naturally find their own level of adherence versus handwaving.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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On 7/21/2020 at 6:13 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

One minor thing I've noticed watching the first video, and the first part of the 2nd video, is that Jeff doesn't call for POWx5 rolls when Kulbrast casts spirit magic spells from matrices.  Is that a rule I don't know or is he just being slightly nice?

Speaking only for myself, but since Spirit Magic rolls are simple pass/fail, with the only downside being forced to try again, and no new effects for a special or critical (or fumble), in my group we only actually roll for it when timing is a factor.  we always roll for Rune Magic though, since its fumbles and criticals matter even outside of timing considerations.

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2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think the game needs to present a fairly rigorous "default" that works for groups that would otherwise descend into argument.

Make sense, but the most popular house rule for Strike Ranks, as far as I can tell, which incidentally seems to be what Steve Perrin himself uses, is that you use SR for "first contact" (first round of melee), and then you go by DEX while inside melee. That's just as "strict" as the official rules, but it simplifies things a bit, at least for those who want to go away from the "SR as action economy" realm.... (but the RQ3 fans are using RQ3 rules anyway).

Anyway, we should go back to speculating about the White Bull campaign! One thing that these videos have done is put Ty Kora Tek on my radar. I had completely ignored her, probably because her cult isn't covered yet. I'm looking forward to Claudia doing cool stuff with her character.

Edited by lordabdul

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55 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I'm looking forward to Claudia doing cool stuff with her character.

One thing that I'd like to see is a few more quirky unofficial passions that develop for your character.  Claudia clearly has a "Gotta Dance" passion at like 85+%.  In our campaign, my character is "besotted by Goldeneyes", but there's no official in-game mechanism.  But if it came down to Loyalty Sartar vs. "Take a Goldeneye bribe from a Lunar spy", my character would likely take the bribe.  🙂

I guess each group can work this out for themselves - we are already giving characters a "Loyalty Party" passion, or, you could just make up a number for "besotted by Goldeneyes" when the time comes.

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One suggestion for @Jeff: occasionally push back on the PCs when they try using Passions or Runes for augments.  I find them all more or less reasonable, but it would be educational for how a GM and the players should think about them.

See also this link, specifically about using Mobility for Climb.

Thanks!  Great job on the videos!

 

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