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I was wondering if there has existed somewhere a cult primarily associated with darkness in which the members are shamans, as one of my players is a Sartarite shaman whose main rune is Darkness and by his backstory Daka Fal is not a perfect fit, and all darkness cults I have seen are not related to shamans/spirits (Argan Argar, Kyger Litor and Zorak Zoran are the 3 in the new edition and none fit me much for a shaman, but maybe I'm wrong). I can of course create the rules for the cult myself, I just want to know if there's something written to give some canon backstory.

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Kyger Litor has a shamanic tradition. If your player’s character is from the Torkani tribe in Sartar, they could plausibly worship her as Deloradella. I can’t think of anything else that is already written up in RQG.

Edit: I’m pretty sure in the RGQ Bestiary it says Kyger Litor initiates can become priestesses and/or shamans. 

Edited by Gallowglass
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4 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

Kyger Litor has a shamanic tradition. If your player’s character is from the Torkani tribe in Sartar, they could plausibly worship her as Deloradella. I can’t think of anything else that is already written up in RQG.

AFAIK, isn't KL shamanism related to/descendant from Daka Fal? Trolls and Darkness aren't my strong suit, but I remember back in RQ2 she got her shamanic spells like Summon Ancestor as associate spells from DF, and it was mentioned that the two cults had close ties.

@Jape_Vicho, I would say that for a shaman that associates with Darkness DF is a perfectly fine fit. He may be primarily concerned with ancestors, but really he is as close as you can get to a universal/baseline shaman cult. I'd recommend your player just initiate into him for now and get their Darkness magic from spirit cults.

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15 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If you are willing to go over to the opposition, @Nick Brooke would say "see the light of the true goddess", as did some Sartarites, Jakaleel is a wonderful fit and has fun atmospherics.  But not a good fit for most campaigns.  YGMV.

I don’t see why not. Vostor the Tarshite is one of the standard pregens, after all. And Prince Argrath recruits folk far stranger than renegade Jakaleeli into his Sartar Magical Union.

And if you think a Jakaleeli Witch would be insane to sign up as one of Argrath’s warlocks... boy, have I got news for you.

Edited by Nick Brooke
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46 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

I don’t see why not. Vostor the Tarshite is one of the standard pregens, after all. And Prince Argrath recruits folk far stranger than renegade Jakaleeli into his Sartar Magical Union.

And if you think a Jakaleeli Witch would be insane to sign up as one of Argrath’s warlocks... boy, have I got news for you.

  1. It may be hard to attend worship, recover Rune Points, etc...
  2. A fellow PC might have "Hate Lunars" at 90%.  One of ours does.  🙂

That said, it would be fun to try with the right group and GM.

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1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

AFAIK, isn't KL shamanism related to/descendant from Daka Fal? Trolls and Darkness aren't my strong suit, but I remember back in RQ2 she got her shamanic spells like Summon Ancestor as associate spells from DF, and it was mentioned that the two cults had close ties.

For RQ2, I don't remember, but for RQ3, no. shamanhood comes directly from KL, as an ancestor worship, as all trolls are supposed to be her grand grand children. And in RQ3 Trollpack, KL shaman were limited in the kind of spirits the could handle and were incited to look for Daka fal initiation to get the full shaman package. Of course, they could also be Arkat initiates ... but this is another matter.

Edited by Kloster
typing mistake
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9 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:
  1. It may be hard to attend worship, recover Rune Points, etc...
  2. A fellow PC might have "Hate Lunars" at 90%.  One of ours does.  🙂

That said, it would be fun to try with the right group and GM.

Of course, you could argue that, if they are no longer loyal to the empire, the fact that they worship a lunar god could be let slide. It's the nation trying to conquer Sartar that's the real problem, and to some using moon magic to fight Lunars may be welcome.

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13 minutes ago, Kloster said:

For RQ2, I don't remember, but for RQ3, no. shamanhood comes directly from KL, as an ancestor worship, as all trolls are supposed to be her grand grand children. And in RQ3 Trollpack, KL shaman were limited in the kind of spirits the could handle and were incited to look for Daka fal initiation to get the full shaman package. Of course, they could also be Arkat initiates ... but this is another matter.

Not sure if this matters, but if Daka Fal is understood to be the same as Grandfather Mortal in-universe by the PCs, then there is the very literal connection between KL and DF as mates who begat the trolls together. Humans and Trolls have the same Grandpappy, so to speak. Grandfather Mortal is even stated to have been a king over the trolls after he was murdered and sent to Hell, so not just an abstract progenitor, but some kind of active/ritual leader as well. 

As I said, I have no idea how this spins the actual gaming, but there are lots of angles to work with here lorewise, imho.

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9 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Not sure if this matters, but if Daka Fal is understood to be the same as Grandfather Mortal in-universe by the PCs, then there is the very literal connection between KL and DF as mates who begat the trolls together. Humans and Trolls have the same Grandpappy, so to speak. Grandfather Mortal is even stated to have been a king over the trolls after he was murdered and sent to Hell, so not just an abstract progenitor, but some kind of active/ritual leader as well. 

As I said, I have no idea how this spins the actual gaming, but there are lots of angles to work with here lorewise, imho.

Yeah, Daka Fal spans all man-rune races to a degree, though he's less important to the elves, who focus more on their plant self, and not important at all to the dwarves, who don't normally become spirits or have a real concept of family. Trolls and humans both worship him though, since they're both very family-oriented species.

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18 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Not sure if this matters, but if Daka Fal is understood to be the same as Grandfather Mortal in-universe by the PCs, then there is the very literal connection between KL and DF as mates who begat the trolls together. Humans and Trolls have the same Grandpappy, so to speak. Grandfather Mortal is even stated to have been a king over the trolls after he was murdered and sent to Hell, so not just an abstract progenitor, but some kind of active/ritual leader as well. 

As I said, I have no idea how this spins the actual gaming, but there are lots of angles to work with here lorewise, imho.

As I have understood it (from RQ3 Trollpack), this is a bit different. Trolls acknowledge both DF (as ancestor of all man rune mortals) and KL (as great great ... great grand mother of all trolls) as ancestors, and venerate them as such, but both are a separate source of shamanhood, and a troll can be in either (or both) cults, or even a non cult shaman.

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3 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

I was wondering if there has existed somewhere a cult primarily associated with darkness in which the members are shamans, as one of my players is a Sartarite shaman whose main rune is Darkness and by his backstory Daka Fal is not a perfect fit, and all darkness cults I have seen are not related to shamans/spirits (Argan Argar, Kyger Litor and Zorak Zoran are the 3 in the new edition and none fit me much for a shaman, but maybe I'm wrong). I can of course create the rules for the cult myself, I just want to know if there's something written to give some canon backstory.

Sabi Varn the Night Listener (mentioned in the Sartar Companion).

Sunset Society (Supposedly evil magicians from Prax).

Kyger Litor is shamanic but one kinda has to be a troll to join.

Malia (do not recommend unless you want the PC to end up recieving the torches and pitchforks treatment).

Jakaleel (Lunar cult somewhat focused on the Dark Side).

Dehore (generic troll shaman deity - dunno if he provides runespells tho).

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4 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Dehore (generic troll shaman deity - dunno if he provides runespells tho).

I'd expect Dehore to be a spirit cult like Oakfed or Kolat, as the source of Darkness elementals.

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17 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Jakaleel (Lunar cult somewhat focused on the Dark Side).

As I understand it, and please correct me (Maybe I should be tagging in the Shaman Organiser @Scotty as well), there were several Jakaleel spirit cults: the Before Dark tradition and the Spirit Societies of the Lunar tradition, the Red School of Masks, the Young Elementals, and the Hell Witches. The Before Dark was the Blue Moon spirit society she came from and She did teach it to Lunars after the Goddess was ... uh, created? (Not sure what verb to use here.) Her Lunar-only transmissions of the Before Dark teachings, which were taught in parallel, are called the From Dark.

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4 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

I was wondering if there has existed somewhere a cult primarily associated with darkness in which the members are shamans, as one of my players is a Sartarite shaman whose main rune is Darkness and by his backstory Daka Fal is not a perfect fit, and all darkness cults I have seen are not related to shamans/spirits (Argan Argar, Kyger Litor and Zorak Zoran are the 3 in the new edition and none fit me much for a shaman, but maybe I'm wrong). I can of course create the rules for the cult myself, I just want to know if there's something written to give some canon backstory.

Horned Man (inexplicably not in the base game, but you can run him just with Spirit Cults) and darkness-related Spirit Cults that you make up or borrow from old stuff is probably the easiest. Kyger Litor has a lot of shamanic content, but you likely have to be a troll.

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5 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Horned Man (inexplicably not in the base game, but you can run him just with Spirit Cults) and darkness-related Spirit Cults that you make up or borrow from old stuff is probably the easiest. Kyger Litor has a lot of shamanic content, but you likely have to be a troll.

Horned Man doesn't have an actual cult afaik. If anything, all spirit cults can be considered his cult. His job is choosing potential shamans and awakening their powers.

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26 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Horned Man doesn't have an actual cult afaik. If anything, all spirit cults can be considered his cult. His job is choosing potential shamans and awakening their powers.

Yes, basically, but there will still be a Horned Man cult in the Cults book. And didn’t he have a cult in GoG, with spells like Axis Mundi?

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8 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Yes, basically, but there will still be a Horned Man cult in the Cults book. And didn’t he have a cult in GoG, with spells like Axis Mundi?

From GoG: "As a god, he defies the normal scope of worship. No initiates sacrifice POW to him, nor regularly feed him with magic points. No temples or shrines to him dot the land. No Rune spells can be gained by gathering to worship him." His requirements for joining are to be a shaman, and his writeup is where spirit cults are described. Basically, you're a member by being a shaman and it's what gives you the privilege to join/start spirit cults. His writeup also mentions that cults such as Aldrya and KL only let their shamans deal with cult spirits, while shamans of gods like DF or Hykim can deal with all spirits.

Edited by Richard S.
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You have forgotten Jakaboom, Dancer in the Shadows.  He goes all the way back to RQ2 Trollpak p.5 (and RQ3 Troll Gods).

JAKABOOM, Dancer in the Shadows, was also the first troll shaman, and taught the trolls their dances which protect them from malevolent spirits and help them to fight Chaos.

He is one of the Seven Sacred Ancestors and serves the same role in troll society that the Horned Man does in human society.  (Kyger Litor serves as the Ancestral Mother, similar to Daka Fal, with that shamanic tradition)

 

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9 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Yes, basically, but there will still be a Horned Man cult in the Cults book. And didn’t he have a cult in GoG, with spells like Axis Mundi?

While @Richard S. quoted most of the text, there's a bit more:

Quote

The Horned Man has no lay members, and his initiates are shamans. He has no priests or Rune Lords.

The Horned Man man does have some pages in the book, but it's not a cult write up. It's more of an overview of spirit cults and the animistic view of the world.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

I was wondering if there has existed somewhere a cult primarily associated with darkness in which the members are shamans, as one of my players is a Sartarite shaman whose main rune is Darkness and by his backstory Daka Fal is not a perfect fit, and all darkness cults I have seen are not related to shamans/spirits (Argan Argar, Kyger Litor and Zorak Zoran are the 3 in the new edition and none fit me much for a shaman, but maybe I'm wrong). I can of course create the rules for the cult myself, I just want to know if there's something written to give some canon backstory.

I covered some Sartarite darkness spirit cults here:

I think the easiest Darkness spirit for Sartarites would be: Xentha, Goddess of Night  and I'd give the spirit cult Summon (Darkness elemental), but a local one.

The nature of shamans in RQG is that you are a member of multiple spirit cults and perhaps a major cult as well.

Your adventurer could be a member of Daka Fal, Xentha, The Darkness stone, Darkvale Sisters and the Sky Gloom.

Likewise, if you don't have a suitable spirit cult, make up a local one. There are hundreds of local spirits waiting to assist your shaman. Remember they generally give only one spirit or rune spell, some will teach skills,

The Darkness stone

This brooding black monolith in the eastern woods claims to have been a troll from Wonderhome, transfigured to rock by unknown magics.

Darksense

(Darkness)

Self, Temporal, Stackable

This Rune spell gives the caster Troll Dark sense with a range of 10m for its duration, each extra point increases the range by 10m.

 

Darkvale Sisters

These patches of black petaled flowers appears in Dark season. The spirit of each patch appears as dark outlined woman. Joining the spirit cult means that you have married one of the sisters. Their roots from a whole patch can be used to make a single magical healing salve of 1D6+1 POT, acting just like Heal spirit magic. To do this you must effectively sacrifice your spirit wife, turn her into a healing salve and then reseed her.

Reseed Darkvale Wife

(Darkness, Plant)

Ritual, Stackable.

This ritual of reseeding allows a new patch of flowers to grow. Each point stacked with it adds another patch.

 

Sky Gloom

The Sky Gloom loves flying around on cloudy days and spreading the word that the sun will never fully return. The sky gloom teaches a 1 point version of Demoralize that rather than affecting fighting prowess, gives them the impression that the sun won't come back or the rain will ever end. Victims often spend days in bed or under a blanket, before realising what has happened.

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1 minute ago, David Scott said:

Likewise, if you don't have a suitable spirit cult, make up a local one. There are hundreds of local spirits waiting to assist your shaman. Remember they generally give only one spirit or rune spell, some will teach skills,

These are superb. The only thing missing is a taboo for each spirit cult - those are sometimes the funniest parts of the writeups, and they help show how pathetically needy these bottom-feeding Spirit Plane creatures can be.

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6 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

The only thing missing is a taboo for each spirit cult - those are sometimes the funniest parts of the writeups, and they help show how pathetically needy these bottom-feeding Spirit Plane creatures can be.

I'm reluctant to add Spirit Cult Taboos as don't exist in the official RQG cult write-ups (they did in HQG), although shaman taboos do. I'm considering reformulating the shaman taboos to be more meaningfull so that Spirit Cult Taboos can be introduced with similar functions to the current shaman taboo table.

Remember what the Lunar Priestess Preaches of "pathetically needy these bottom-feeding Spirit Plane creatures" - 

Quote

 

…Spirits?

There are myriad minor spirits of the world. When healed each, like you, will be a god. Some are important now, but all are equal before Eternity. Nurturing them brings equal healing and friendship to you. Help them.

 

 

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