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So per the advice of this thread I've been doing some research via internet and Buds rpg reviews on YouTube (great channel)

 

Is it fair to say the Darastor book, Sartar Kindom of hero's and Pavis Gateway to Adventure are the equivalent to campaign settings in ther own right?

 

Much to my extreme dismay some  of these books sell for close to $174 on Amazon and I don't use pdfs to run games....LOVE BOOKS  :D

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FULL Disclosure: I am hopelessly biased. This is not the first, nor the last time, I have responded to a question like this, and I am all too happy to provide my answer. It makes me recall a favorite

We are close to changing that situation for the Sartar/Sartar Comp/Pavis HQ books and the RuneQuest Classics line via POD. 

I think I, and my entire generation, had it easy. When we started playing RuneQuest, we were barely aware that Glorantha was even a thing. We were just playing a cool game that was different to D&

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1 hour ago, Gman said:

Is it fair to say the Darastor book, Sartar Kindom of hero's and Pavis Gateway to Adventure are the equivalent to campaign settings in ther own right?

Yes, but so are Pavis & Big Rubble, Borderlands and griffin mountain and you can but those as PDFs in the Gloranthan Classics range or as PDFs in the RQ Classic Range.

The RQ3 Dorastor book has a campaign of a few interlinked adventures. secrets of Dorastor, for the Jonstown Compendium, does not have a campaign but has lots of campaign ideas. However, I would definitely not recommend that as a starting campaign.

RQ3 had some excellent Praxian Campaigns. Sun County, River of Cradles, shadows on the Borderlands and Strangers in Prax are good campaign packs, if you can get hold of them.

The Jonstown Compendium has some good campaigns as PDFs.

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15 hours ago, Gman said:

WOW....Im pleasantly overwhelmed by all of the helpful responses.......just.....WOW.

Thanks so much to everyone.....i had no idea so many people would reply with helpful advice.  Several people have expressed starting small and expanding from there....check

There are plenty of us here who are committed to the idea of The Tribe. That's how Greg described and directed the community, in person at conventions and through his writing. Many of us had the huge privilege of meeting and knowing Greg, and taking up his inspiration to make the world of Glorantha gaming more than just a shared hobby amongst strangers. Sadly that opportunity is now gone from the mundane world, and it still brings tears to my eyes to write about it, such was his influence on us.

As with any tribe we have our quarrels and feuds, of course, so don't expect it to always be rainbows and candy!

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2 hours ago, Gman said:

So per the advice of this thread I've been doing some research via internet and Buds rpg reviews on YouTube (great channel)

Is it fair to say the Dorastor book, Sartar Kindom of hero's and Pavis Gateway to Adventure are the equivalent to campaign settings in their own right?

Dorastor: Land of Doom (RuneQuest 3rd edition) is going to be hard to find: printed in the early nineties, no PDF or POD options. If you get that, you'll want Cults of Terror (RQ2) / Lords of Terror (RQ3) for the bad guy cults and Paulis Longvale's adventures in Dorastor, and I'd strongly recommend Simon Phipp's Secrets of Dorastor for gonzo wackiness. 

Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (HeroQuest 2nd edition) is available in print-on-demand at Lulu.

Pavis: Gateway to Adventure (HeroQuest 2nd edition) is sadly PDF-only at the moment, I think the POD version was pulled for quality reasons. (I could be mistaken, don't sue me!). That's basically an expanded version of the good setting and background stuff from RQ2 Pavis + Big Rubble + Borderlands, with all-new scenarios instead of the ones from those packs.

IMO the best RuneQuest campaign settings are Griffin Mountain (RQ2, available in print as a Glorantha Classic), the Borderlands+Pavis+Sun County+River of Cradles etc. cluster (RQ2+3, mostly; only Borderlands and Beyond is available in print as a Glorantha Classic), and Sartar (HQ2 & RQG). If you're more into HeroQuest / Hero Wars, you'll have to ask one of those guys what's good. The Sartar rebel campaign that kicked off with Barbarian Adventures has been criticised for making players into spectators while the Real Heroes save the day, while the Lunar stuff is no longer considered canonical. I ignored the last HQ2 books (for sufficient reasons), and you'll find all HQ Sartarites are barbaric Dark Age Europeans, not sophisticated Bronze Age Myceneans.

If you're kicking off a campaign today using RQG, you should start with a diverse group of Colymar loyalists and play through the adventures in the slipcase (GM Screen Pack Adventure Book), plus the Broken Tower (RQ Quickstart), plus the Smoking Ruin (all available in print). Pegasus Plateau will be out in print soon enough. That's a buttload of material, and it's all readily available.

Edited by Nick Brooke
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1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

If you're more into HeroQuest / Hero Wars, you'll have to ask one of those guys what's good.

The Red Cow campaign (The Coming Storm + The Eleven Lights) is in my opinion not merely the best Gloranthan campaign bar none, but quite possibly the finest Gloranthan writing out there in any format.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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3 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Dorastor: Land of Doom (RuneQuest 3rd edition) is going to be hard to find: printed in the early nineties, no PDF or POD options.

Speaking of which - and I intend this in all sincerity, so I apologise for the digression - does anyone here recall purchasing this book from me anywhere between 10 and 15 years ago?  I loved that book, and for the life of me I can't find it in my collection now, though all other books remain.

Just...let me know it's in a good home. 😿

!i!

Edited by Ian Absentia
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1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

Dorastor: Land of Doom (RuneQuest 3rd edition) is going to be hard to find: printed in the early nineties, no PDF or POD options. If you get that, you'll want Cults of Terror (RQ2) / Lords of Terror (RQ3) for the bad guy cults and Paulis Longvale's adventures in Dorastor, and I'd strongly recommend Simon Phipp's Secrets of Dorastor for gonzo wackiness. 

Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes (HeroQuest 2nd edition) is available in print-on-demand at Lulu.

Pavis: Gateway to Adventure (HeroQuest 2nd edition) is sadly PDF-only at the moment, I think the POD version was pulled for quality reasons. (I could be mistaken, don't sue me!). That's basically an expanded version of the good setting and background stuff from RQ2 Pavis + Big Rubble + Borderlands, with all-new scenarios instead of the ones from those packs.

IMO the best RuneQuest campaign settings are Griffin Mountain (RQ2, available in print as a Glorantha Classic), the Borderlands+Pavis+Sun County+River of Cradles etc. cluster (RQ2+3, mostly; only Borderlands and Beyond is available in print as a Glorantha Classic), and Sartar (HQ2 & RQG). If you're more into HeroQuest / Hero Wars, you'll have to ask one of those guys what's good. The Sartar rebel campaign that kicked off with Barbarian Adventures has been criticised for making players into spectators while the Real Heroes save the day, while the Lunar stuff is no longer considered canonical. I ignored the last HQ2 books (for sufficient reasons), and you'll find all HQ Sartarites are barbaric Dark Age Europeans, not sophisticated Bronze Age Myceneans.

If you're kicking off a campaign today using RQG, you should start with a diverse group of Colymar loyalists and play through the adventures in the slipcase (GM Screen Pack Adventure Book), plus the Broken Tower (RQ Quickstart), plus the Smoking Ruin (all available in print). Pegasus Plateau will be out in print soon enough. That's a buttload of material, and it's all readily available.

Thanks, that's a lot of info.  I'm leaning toward Pavis because I'm told that is is very Sword &Scorcery and that is what appeals to me.  I may have to wait until Robin Laws finishes his new books for RQG

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10 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

The Red Cow campaign (The Coming Storm + The Eleven Lights) is in my opinion not merely the best Gloranthan campaign bar none, but quite possibly the finest Gloranthan writing out there in any format.

Thanks Akhorahil....i lOVE the cover art of both of those books.  I own the RQG Slipcase.....i have 30+ years of experience running games (Rolemaster 2, WFRP, AD&D, CoC, etc) BUT my only experience with Runequest is the Broken Tower.....with that said is it easy to convert the coming storm and eleven lights to RQG considering my experience with RQG?

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1 minute ago, Gman said:

Thanks, that's a lot of info.  I'm leaning toward Pavis because I'm told that is is very Sword &Scorcery and that is what appeals to me.  I may have to wait until Robin Laws finishes his new books for RQG

Pavis is a very good starting place, especially for people coming from dungeon crawlers. I'd recommend picking up Pavis & the Big Rubble if you want to give it a go in Runequest. It's written for RQ2, but as is tradition with BRP games 90% of it is useable as-is. The only problem is that it's set a few years before RQG starts, but you can probably either adjust or ignore family history enough to get yourselves started then.

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2 minutes ago, Gman said:

is it easy to convert the coming storm and eleven lights to RQG considering my experience with RQG?

Depends... it’s not difficult, but there will be a fair amount of work (lots of NPCs to stat up), as well as some improvisation during play for how to translate the much looser HQ challenges into RQ format.

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3 hours ago, Gman said:

Is it fair to say the Darastor book, Sartar Kindom of hero's and Pavis Gateway to Adventure are the equivalent to campaign settings in ther own right?

Much to my extreme dismay some  of these books sell for close to $174 on Amazon and I don't use pdfs to run games....LOVE BOOKS  :D

If you really want Books, not pdf, then it will be difficult to find most of the old classic campaign settings without paying exorbitant prices.

The current active and available setting (with books) is in Sartar.  The GM Adventures Book (which you may already have) + the just available in book form Smoking Ruins + Pegasus Plateau (out in pdf, due in print in October) provide plenty of material.  You could supplement with the HQG pdf's Sartar Kingdom of Heroes and Sartar Companion.  And you could also supplement with The Coming Storm and Eleven Lights (sale at Chaosium right now on their remaining print stock) which are HQG, too, but all you need is to add stats for NPC's and you have a full campaign.  There's also an array of good Jonstown Compendium material now out (I recommend Six Seasons in Sartar and Valley of Plenty for starting campaigns, and Duel at Dangerford as a solid interlude scenario).

Pavis/River of Cradles is the next most accessible campaign area, but will almost exclusively be in pdf format.  The RQ Classic material:  Cults of Prax, Pavis, Big Rubble, and Borderlands offer plenty to get started with, and the HQG Pavis Gateway to Adventure provides good extension to the earlier work.  Unfortunately, most of the RQ3 era books are long out-of-print.  However, the now 3 volume Sandheart series in Jonstown Compendium provides a nice campaign in Sun County near Pavis.

Balazar is a feasible option (though more out-of-the-way).  Either Griffin Mountain book (RQ Classic or Glorantha Classic version) provides largely the same material and is a full campaign setting.

Dorastor is also feasible, but you would want to get the RQ Classic Cults of Terror and supplement with the recently available Jonstown Compendium work Secrets of Dorastor.  It is not for the faint of heart though.

 

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11 minutes ago, Gman said:

I'm leaning toward Pavis because I'm told that is is very Sword &Scorcery and that is what appeals to me.  I may have to wait until Robin Laws finishes his new books for RQG

Given your preference, that's probably the best choice.  Since we don't yet have a timeframe for Robin Laws' material (which means at least 2021 before release), pick up the available RQ2 material (Pavis and Big Rubble noted above, also Borderlands has scenarios and NPC's that fit in readily).  It's got all the background you need for the area, plus scenarios.  For some added NPC's, try the Jonstown Compendium work Rubble Runners

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4 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

As we regularly remind ourselves, Glorantha is not the real world and does not map to the real world in either cultural or technological development. An important thing to love about Glorantha!

Enjoy your stirrups, sir!

 

There is nothing to indicate modern sensibilities either.  I enjoy Glorantha as a vague analogue of the RW. 

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27 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

There is nothing to indicate modern sensibilities either.  I enjoy Glorantha as a vague analogue of the RW. 

That's not necessarily true, and even demonstrably false in some instances (but I was referring to the real world advertisement itself - slavery is an odd selling point, even for 1978).  But shine on!  And let me know how those stirrups are working out.

!i!

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20 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

That's not necessarily true, and even demonstrably false in some instances (but I was referring to the real world advertisement itself - slavery is an odd selling point, even for 1978).  But shine on!  And let me know how those stirrups are working out.

!i!

Unsure where it is demonstrably false, but if you feel happier that way YGDV. 

Dunno 'bout the stirrups.  Not very Bronze Age. 

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7 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Guys, @Gman wants to love Glorantha.

I think this is some of that "tribal" bickering some were embracing up-thread.

10 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:

Dunno 'bout the stirrups.  Not very Bronze Age. 

♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️!!!

!i!

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1 hour ago, Gman said:

Thanks, that's a lot of info.  I'm leaning toward Pavis because I'm told that is is very Sword &Scorcery and that is what appeals to me.  I may have to wait until Robin Laws finishes his new books for RQG

Pavis & Big Rubble is excellent for Swords & Sorcery. If you can get hold of them, there is a series of P&BR Companions which have Swords & Sorcery shot all through them. However, they are quite difficult to track down.

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17 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Pavis & Big Rubble is excellent for Swords & Sorcery. If you can get hold of them, there is a series of P&BR Companions which have Swords & Sorcery shot all through them. However, they are quite difficult to track down.

Worth the effort, though 😁

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Since we don't yet have a timeframe for Robin Laws' material (which means at least 2021 before release), pick up the available RQ2 material (Pavis and Big Rubble noted above, also Borderlands has scenarios and NPC's that fit in readily).  It's got all the background you need for the area, plus scenarios. 

It might actually work out pretty well, with a campaign that starts sometime between 1617 and 1620, does some Sword & Sorcery under Lunar occupation in Pavis & the Big Rubble... then by the time Robin Laws' book comes out in a year or two, the campaign might have advanced to 1625 and they can experience the liberation and aftermath, picking up where the new book starts!

As mentioned before, if using the RQG rules, using the RQ2 Pavis & Big Rubble books would require cutting short the "Family History" part of the character creation (which goes all the way to 1625 since that's the default starting date for RQG), but these forums can definitely advise on that, and help add new event tables more biased towards characters who grew up in the Zola Fel, if the PCs happen to be locals.... and even me merely writing this here might prompt someone to post this alternate Family History on the Jonstown Compendium by next week! :D   (hey @Nick Brooke we could pitch this idea to Jon for a Sandheart companion/bonus PDF?!  I find that writing Family History tables is super fun).

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4 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Dorastor: Land of Doom (RuneQuest 3rd edition) is going to be hard to find

Actually, how come the RQ3 stuff doesn’t get PDF releases, like so many RQ2 products have? Especially as so many products were excellent! Is it a rights issue? More of the cult (misapplied worship in that case, I say!) of RQ2? Or what?

It would be a public service to release Dorastor, River of Cradles, Sun Country, Strangers in Prax and Shadows on the Borderlands (those last four might form an omnibus).

Edited by Akhôrahil
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5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

If you really want Books, not pdf, then it will be difficult to find most of the old classic campaign settings without paying exorbitant prices.

We are close to changing that situation for the Sartar/Sartar Comp/Pavis HQ books and the RuneQuest Classics line via POD. 

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16 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Why don't I do that, then? I was probably about twelve or thirteen years old: the legends are unclear. I'd been playing some sort of D&D since my last year at primary school (in the Spring of 1979 -- I was ten years old, then: my form teacher had started us playing before the AD&D 1e Dungeon Master's Guide was out). After a few years, I was getting annoyed at the racist deficiencies baked into its class + level + alignment system (and forty years later, the world is catching up with me), so RuneQuest came as a breath of fresh air: its monsters all had stats, skills, cults, ranks and motivations, just like the adventurers did!

....

Cool, interesting to hear from someone who got started a bit later than I did.

I don't remember if I saw ads for RQ, or if I just found RuneQuest 1st ed. in my FLGS, probably mostly the latter. I looked through every new thing that showed up on the shelves there (and in 1978 there wasn't much, I think they had 2 maybe 3 36" shelves of RPG stuff with the magazines in a separate rack). So I bought RuneQuest 1st. ed and soon after Apple Lane and Balastor's Baracks. And White Bear and Red Moon. Between Apple Lane (and later Snake Pipe Hollow) plus WB&RM, I ran a Sartar campaign (and didn't really realize Balastor's Baracks was set in the Big Rubble). I had been playing mostly OD&D and actually in 1978 mostly Chivalry & Sorcery (though I ran some form of D&D on our cross country trip in summer of 1978), a bit of Metamorphosis Alpha, and I'm not sure what else. I had started role playing in October of 1977 with Holmes Basic D&D which we immediately outgrew. My early RQ play was pretty sporadic but soon Cults of Prax and Snake Pipe Hollow came out, and The White Dwarf had RQ content, oh and Trollpak and Griffin Mountain, but still I wouldn't actually start a serious campaign until the 1990s. But, probably due to college (which I started in fall of 1981), I didn't get Pavis or Big Rubble. I did get and try to run Borderlands in college. I also didn't get the Solo Quests.

I did start buying the RQ3 material and eventually used some of it in the 1990s campaign.

But all through that, I gravitated to treasure seeking monster bashing, pretty traditional gaming though maybe with a bit more characterization than with D&D, and certainly smaller "dungeons." And that's the type of gaming that still interests me. I initially bought heavily into Hero Wars and Hero Quest, but never played, and never got what the game was supposed to be like. It definitely did not look like what I expected Hero Quest to be like (and really didn't look like the Hero Quests Steve Marsh had written up in his zines published in The Wild Hunt). In the 2000s I went wild acquiring Glorantha material of any sort, but have since divested myself of some of it as it became clear that too much was too much, and especially much of the HW/HQ stuff was of little use to me.

I dunno if I'll ever get RQG. RQ1 (plus bits from RQ2 which I do now own as of 2005 and RQ3) is the game I want to play. I'm NOT sold on the newer style tribal centered play. I'm not sold on what I've heard about the RQG rules. But Glorantha is big enough for all of us. It's had enough gonzo and wacky stuff that it makes the way I play still "fit". And that gonzo and wacky stuff is part of the appeal to me. I like ducks. I like some of the silly stuff that shows up in Trollpak.

If people ask ME for suggestions of how to get started, I'd say pick up RQ1 or RQ2, Cults of Prax, and Apple Lane. if that grabs you, look into Griffin Mountain or Pavis/Big Rubble for more extensive (and available) content, or pick up some of the newer Sartar centered material and make a game of it. Borrow from whatever source you want (I'm always borrowing D&D and other games content) or make stuff up on your own.

Frank

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2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Actually, how come the RQ3 stuff doesn’t get PDF releases, like so many RQ2 products have? Especially as so many products were excellent! Is it a rights issue? More of the cult (misapplied worship in that case, I say!) of RQ2? Or what?

It would be a public service to release Dorastor, River of Cradles, Sun Country, Strangers in Prax and Shadows on the Borderlands (those last four might form an omnibus).

I really want to see the RQ3 stuff in PDF form. I don't think there's a rights issue (I may be wrong), other than maybe for the RQ3 core rules, it's probably mostly a case of whether there's enough interest to do the work.

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5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Actually, how come the RQ3 stuff doesn’t get PDF releases

Most probably a rights issue: according to the legalese blurbs at the beginning of those books, it all belongs to Avalon Hill. I don't imagine it's very high on Chaosium's list to spend time and money talking to lawyers on the phone.

3 hours ago, ffilz said:

RQ1 (plus bits from RQ2 which I do now own as of 2005 and RQ3) is the game I want to play.

I have never looked very closely at the differences between RQ1 and RQ2, but my understanding was that RQ2 was mostly a heavily errata'ed version of RQ1 based on early feedback. Is there any reason you prefer to stick to RQ1?

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