What is the Hero Soul?

[Gray Mouser]

Jeff sometimes mentions the Hero Soul in heroquesting context. What is the Hero Soul ? Is it a kind of fetch that protect heroes ? A kind of fetch tied to the divine realm as opposed to the spirit realm ? A part of the soul that exist simultaneously in the mythic world/hero plane ? Has this Hero Soul been mentioned anywhere in Glorantha or Runequest canon ? 

(My native language is french, so please excuse possible grammatical mistakes !)

[Akhôrahil]

I would guess at your third suggestion - the hero has a permanent connection to either the gods’ world or some hero plane. This is probably what makes hero-worship possible.

It might also be associated with the Mastery rune, which is apparently a hero-thing now.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[soltakss]

My take on the hero Soul is that it is the portion of a person's soul that is part of the God Plane. So, it is the divine portion of the soul.

In many ways, it is like a Fetch, in that it is built up over time by the spending of POW.

 

[David Scott]

@Jeff has answered this over on the RuneQuest Facebook group, along with three posts on heroquesting: https://www.facebook.com/groups/RuneQuest/permalink/1694907194018606/

 

[David Scott]

On 7/19/2020 at 6:20 PM, Akhôrahil said:

It might also be associated with the Mastery rune, which is apparently a hero-thing now.

The Mastery rune has been associated with being a Hero since before White Bear / Red Moon was published:

Here's a snippet of Greg's pre-production counters, before they were named. Can you see who they are?

Heroes - Mastery Rune

Super Heroes - infinity rune

[Ian Absentia]

Can we not promote Facebook on this forum?  For those without FB accounts, for those who don't want their browser histories and contact lists mined by FB, for those who object to FB's policies regarding social responsibility and abrogation thereof and don't wish to tacitly support them, can we have those posts mirrored here?

!I!

[Akhôrahil]

25 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Can we not promote Facebook on this forum?  For those without FB accounts, for those who don't want their browser histories and contact lists mined by FB, for those who object to FB's policies regarding social responsibility and abrogation thereof and don't wish to tacitly support them, can we have those posts mirrored here?

!I!

While I think it would be good if those posts were mirrored here (perhaps in a ”Notes from Jeff” thread?), in the absence of that, I see it as a public service to inform people of relevant stuff there that they might have missed.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Bill the barbarian]

27 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Can we not promote Facebook on this forum?  For those without FB accounts, for those who don't want their browser histories and contact lists mined by FB, for those who object to FB's policies regarding social responsibility and abrogation thereof and don't wish to tacitly support them, can we have those posts mirrored here?

 

Oui, SVP!

[David Scott]

31 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Can we not promote Facebook on this forum? 

Take it up with @Jeff he posts there, his choice along with the 3100 members of the FB RQ group. I see no reason not to post links to things people might be interested in that don't appear here. It's up to the individual if they want to follow the link.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Ian Absentia said:

Can we not promote Facebook on this forum?  For those without FB accounts, for those who don't want their browser histories and contact lists mined by FB, for those who object to FB's policies regarding social responsibility and abrogation thereof and don't wish to tacitly support them, can we have those posts mirrored here?

It's not promotion -- it's just a link. Also, your first 2 problems can be fixed by using Firefox, which opens Facebook in a sandbox by default so that none of Facebook's cookies and tracking work anywhere else. And while I don't enjoy having to check 2 forums instead of one, you can't argue with the fact that Jeff prefers the Facebook group because there's less vitriol over there.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Here's a snippet of Greg's pre-production counters, before they were named. Can you see who they are?

Oh wow, nice! More please  

I think it's: Argrath, Aelwrin, and Harrek?

On 7/19/2020 at 9:31 AM, Gray Mouser said:

Jeff sometimes mentions the Hero Soul in heroquesting context. What is the Hero Soul ?

Based on that Facebook post, my understanding is that you're right, it's the equivalent of a fetch. You become a shaman when you awaken your "spirit soul" and gain a permanent link with the spirit realm. You become a hero when you awaken your hero soul and gain a permanent link with the hero plane and god plane. I'm looking forward to see what kind of cool abilities you get from that.

Edited July 20, 2020 by lordabdul

[Gray Mouser]

Thanks all for the responses and the FB link, very interesting stuff! 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

you can't argue with the fact that Jeff prefers the Facebook group because

actually I think it's because there are 3100+ users there, and a lot of new faces.

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I see it as a public service to inform people of relevant stuff there that they might have missed.

One reason why I occasionally cross-post interesting text or commentary or questions over here. 

 

[Crel]

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Based on that Facebook post, my understanding is that you're right, it's the equivalent of a fetch. You become a shaman when you awaken your "spirit soul" and gain a permanent link with the spirit realm. You become a hero when you awaken your hero soul and gain a permanent link with the hero plane and god plane. I'm looking forward to see what kind of cool abilities you get from that.

Speculation, and spoilers for one of the adventures in TSR:

 

At the end of "The Grove of Green Rock" the adventurers have the chance to sacrifice one or more POW and store it in the Hero World (TSR 187). Based on what Jeff posted and general conversations I've been lurking both here and on FB, I believe this is the central mechanic of Hero Soul. I think that someone on the Chaosium team—maybe David Scott? Choosing not to tag because I don't gotta drag someone's time into me speculating—mentioned that a fetch is basically the same as a Hero Soul, but sacrificed to one's self, or something like that. Basically, you either have a fetch, or you have a Hero Soul; mechanically it's one thing, not two things.

Abilities seem to be Rune spells you know, and Heroic Boons, which are probably both Rune spells and other abilities. One such can be found in Asborn Thriceborn's description in the Gamemaster Adventures book. He has the "Heroquest Gift" to permanently spend Rune points to self-resurrect. I recall seeing a dev suggest the shaman chapter as a starting point for the types of abilities a hero might learn, and this seems in line with that comment.

One of my major unanswered questions is if Hero Soul gets replenished when you spend it to cast a Rune spell. I'm guessing either it doesn't, or it requires someone else worshiping you to be replenished. Laying the basis for adventurers to establish their own hero cult, organizing hero bands, etc. 

I don't have any clue how that speculative stuff will interact with the new terms and concepts (Identification, Ranging, quest types, and so on) Jeff's notes described. Well, new terms/concepts to me, anyway! If I get random ideas I'll try to mention 'em. I've been trying to puzzle out how Chaosium's going to handle heroquesting for some time, to try future-proofing my own game as I start gearing up for our own HQ's.

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

And while I don't enjoy having to check 2 forums instead of one, you can't argue with the fact that Jeff prefers the Facebook group because there's less vitriol over there.

They're fairly different milieus, and I like them each for their own aspects. Over here's better for long discussion. If I wanna type up a big rambly thing, I'll do it here. But for quick conversation and questions, or generally amusing stuff, game anecdotes, etc. the FB group's great. It's a fun, active space.

Edit: Sorry, a whole bunch of text ended up in the spoiler tag somehow and I can't get it out. Non-spoiler text reposted:

I don't have any clue how that speculative stuff will interact with the new terms and concepts (Identification, Ranging, quest types, and so on) Jeff's notes described. Well, new terms/concepts to me, anyway! If I get random ideas I'll try to mention 'em. I've been trying to puzzle out how Chaosium's going to handle heroquesting for some time, to try future-proofing my own game as I start gearing up for our own HQ's.

Quote

@lordabdul: And while I don't enjoy having to check 2 forums instead of one, you can't argue with the fact that Jeff prefers the Facebook group because there's less vitriol over there.

They're fairly different milieus, and I like them each for their own aspects. Over here's better for long discussion. If I wanna type up a big rambly thing, I'll do it here. But for quick conversation and questions, or generally amusing stuff, game anecdotes, etc. the FB group's great. It's a fun, active space.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Crel

[Jeff]

I personally prefer using Facebook. Especially stuff that is play-oriented. Our FB community is large, active, and more oriented towards new players who are less likely to whinge about how we aren't using RQ1 or such stuff. I "do" post here, but FB is my preferred media for interaction. 

As an aside, I find that some of the threads (and even specific posters) at times function as the equivalent of a Tap spell on my creative output. This is a bigger problem on BRP than FB. That's my problem not yours, but I don't see that changing and is another reason I prefer interacting on FB.

 

[GAZZA]

2 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I personally prefer using Facebook. Especially stuff that is play-oriented. Our FB community is large, active, and more oriented towards new players who are less likely to whinge about how we aren't using RQ1 or such stuff. I "do" post here, but FB is my preferred media for interaction. 

As an aside, I find that some of the threads (and even specific posters) at times function as the equivalent of a Tap spell on my creative output. This is a bigger problem on BRP than FB. That's my problem not yours, but I don't see that changing and is another reason I prefer interacting on FB.

Charming dude. Seriously, did you intend to be as offensive as it came out?

[Martin]

12 hours ago, David Scott said:

The Mastery rune has been associated with being a Hero since before White Bear / Red Moon was published:

Here's a snippet of Greg's pre-production counters, before they were named. Can you see who they are?

Heroes - Mastery Rune

Super Heroes - infinity rune

Has to be Jar Eel, Argrath , and Harrek right?

[Nick Brooke]

Er, Jar-eel is a Superhero, so nope.

 

[Nick Brooke]

Nice of GAZZA to prove Jeff's point.

[GAZZA]

3 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Nice of GAZZA to prove Jeff's point.

If that's what you took from that, I despair.

[Martin]

32 minutes ago, Jeff said:

I personally prefer using Facebook. Especially stuff that is play-oriented. Our FB community is large, active, and more oriented towards new players who are less likely to whinge about how we aren't using RQ1 or such stuff. I "do" post here, but FB is my preferred media for interaction. 

As an aside, I find that some of the threads (and even specific posters) at times function as the equivalent of a Tap spell on my creative output. This is a bigger problem on BRP than FB. That's my problem not yours, but I don't see that changing and is another reason I prefer interacting on FB.

 

 

Just to chip in here, I have noticed numerous times on Glorantha  forums of all kinds both past and  present, it is those who lack creativity that moan or pick at the creativity of others...It baffles me  that  they undermine the authors that are the very sources of creation.

[Martin]

17 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Er, Jar-eel is a Superhero, so nope.

 

we agree that is Harrek bottom right yes?

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Martin said:

we agree that is Harrek bottom right yes?

Yes. I can't recall offhand which heroes got the Fate Rune in Greg's original scheme.

[soltakss]

53 minutes ago, GAZZA said:

56 minutes ago, Jeff said:

As an aside, I find that some of the threads (and even specific posters) at times function as the equivalent of a Tap spell on my creative output. This is a bigger problem on BRP than FB. That's my problem not yours, but I don't see that changing and is another reason I prefer interacting on FB.

Charming dude. Seriously, did you intend to be as offensive as it came out?

And, perhaps, this is the kind of thing that Jeff is talking about.

 

[Nick Brooke]

Wyrms Footnotes #3 p.18 has the chart, so we don't need to remember it. Nobody listed has the Fate rune. Jar-eel is Harmony, Infinity & Man; Harrek is Death, Infinity & Man.

Argrath, Aelwrin, Gunda and the FHQ are the bargain-basement entries: Man & Mastery. So in context, those are probably Argrath, Gunda and Harrek - they'd be grouped together and printed out on orange/tan counters.

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Nick Brooke said:

Wyrms Footnotes #3 p.18 has the chart, so we don't need to remember it. Nobody listed has the Fate rune. Jar-eel is Harmony, Infinity & Man; Harrek is Death, Infinity & Man.

Argrath, Aelwrin, Gunda and the FHQ are the bargain-basement entries: Man & Mastery. So in context, those are probably Argrath, Gunda and Harrek - they'd be grouped together and printed out on orange/tan counters.

Yes. What David is posting is Greg's first drawings of the chits. Originally Fate was going to have some meaning - I think Argrath and the Red Emperor both got it. Later he decided against it. Even later he got William Church to draw figures on the chits. But I am at a lake today, so can't look at the originals.