Distrusting Humaktis

[Brootse]

If a Humakti gets a geas about distrusting someone, what's the level of distrust required? Could they eg. go on an adventure with someone they distrust? Or live in a village with people they distrust?

[Akhôrahil]

Do you trust all your friends, neighbours, relatives and co-workers? 

[Ian Absentia]

Maybe it's a matter of contractual liability?  I mean, seriously, because if the geas is supposed to mean "Moderately hostile towards..." or "Situationally bigoted towards.." then just say so.  So perhaps it boils down to "Reject commerce with..." or "Unable to enter contract with..."

!i!

[Akhôrahil]

Quoting Conan’s dad:

”In their rage, the gods forgot the secret of steel and left it on the battlefield. We who found it are just men. Not gods. Not giants. Just men. The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts.

[Points to sword] 

Conan's Father : This you can trust.”

(It turns out he’s wrong - no Valhalla for Conan’s dad - but hey...)

Edited July 19, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Maybe it's a matter of contractual liability?  I mean, seriously, because if the geas is supposed to mean "Moderately hostile towards..." or "Situationally bigoted towards.." then just say so.  So perhaps it boils down to "Reject commerce with..." or "Unable to enter contract with..."

If you want to put it in rules terms, the passion ”Mistrust Non-Humakti” would be easy to use. 

Pretty sure people who don’t trust each other enter contracts all the time. The contract is something that enables it. In Glorantha, backing something up with an Oath spell means you only have to trust in their sense of self-preservation.

Personally, I think it’s a little weird that it’s not about non-honorable people instead of non-Humakti - they should be able to consider others honorable.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Brootse]

And can you have loyalty passions with people you don't trust?

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, Brootse said:

And can you have loyalty passions with people you don't trust?

Maybe? Probably? Conflicting passions are fine, after all. 

[Ian Absentia]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Pretty sure people who don’t trust each other enter contracts all the time.

Okay, this is an amazing rabbit hole to go down.  True - who needs a contract if you have trust?  On the other hand, trust is the foundation of a contract, trust in convention, trust that the other can and will be held to account, and the contract is a means of conveying that trust to others. Refuse to trust Orlanthi (because, let's be honest with each other, why would we?), and you refuse to enter into a social contract with them.  You don't necessarily express any other hostility toward them, you just don't keep them in any sort of confidence.

Okay, not my best argument.

2 hours ago, Brootse said:

And can you have loyalty passions with people you don't trust?

Loyal (Husband - that cheating bastard!)

But if you're forbidden from entering into a social contract, then you couldn't marry the jackass in the first place.

!i!

Edited July 19, 2020 by Ian Absentia
Forgot a very important qualifier

[ItsRhetorical]

Mistrust all non-Humakti, friend or foe. Is my character now an NPC because the rest of the group is all non-Humakti?

[Lordabdul]

10 hours ago, Brootse said:

If a Humakti gets a geas about distrusting someone, what's the level of distrust required?

Whatever level happens to be between "it's annoying enough that it's indeed a geas without bogging down the game" and "it actually creates entertaining situations and story opportunities".

10 hours ago, Brootse said:

Could they eg. go on an adventure with someone they distrust? Or live in a village with people they distrust?

Yes and yes. The Humakti may however verify any claim, double check his gear every morning, sleep in separate quarters or away from the group, re-count any money or loot distributed to him, clear any room even if it was cleared by another PC, etc...

Don't treat these geases as rules that have to be clearly defined and followed to the letter. Instead, treat them as roleplaying opportunities.

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, ItsRhetorical said:

Mistrust all non-Humakti, friend or foe. Is my character now an NPC because the rest of the group is all non-Humakti?

No need to become an NPC.  

There are a lot of ways to potentially think about it or play it, but one way is to simply realize that non-Humakti do not Understand Death.  Only Humakti truly understand that, therefore you must be suspicious of their underlying motives - instead of embracing Death, they really Fear Death.  That keeps them from acting Honorably.  You know this.  Perhaps you try to help them understand this.  But it means that even among your non-Humakti friends and companions, they might run from Death.

[French Desperate WindChild]

5 hours ago, ItsRhetorical said:

Mistrust all non-Humakti, friend or foe. Is my character now an NPC because the rest of the group is all non-Humakti?

don't let them speak / trade / negociate / commit for you

Organize any activity keeping in mind they can fly / betray you

As a player, play like they are not your table but trollkin npc you don't know but have to manage

In fact you are the only PC the other are NPC

[Shiningbrow]

15 hours ago, jajagappa said:

No need to become an NPC.  

There are a lot of ways to potentially think about it or play it, but one way is to simply realize that non-Humakti do not Understand Death.  Only Humakti truly understand that, therefore you must be suspicious of their underlying motives - instead of embracing Death, they really Fear Death.  That keeps them from acting Honorably.  You know this.  Perhaps you try to help them understand this.  But it means that even among your non-Humakti friends and companions, they might run from Death.

I'm sure you're trying to look at it from a Humakti perspective, but that's a total logic fail.

[Darius West]

On 7/20/2020 at 6:27 AM, Brootse said:

If a Humakti gets a geas about distrusting someone, what's the level of distrust required? Could they eg. go on an adventure with someone they distrust? Or live in a village with people they distrust?

As all language is implicitly an imperfect approximation of reality, everything anyone has ever said across the course of human history can be interpreted as a lie, if only an unintentional lie of omission at best.

In the case of an Humakt geas, I would suggest that the Humakti should always operate from a position of demanding proof of anything they say, and rejecting anything they cannot provide solid logical or objective evidence for, always assuming that their intentions are untrustworthy and likely to be hostile.  After a while, given the rudeness of this behavior, the locals will inevitably decide that if they are always going to be accused, they may as well "do the crime".  I suspect this is the point of the Geas, as it promotes a hero quest relationship between the Humakti and the hostile community.  This will also help to hone the Humakti's people skills, as they will have to become better at reading people's intentions.

[Atgxtg]

22 hours ago, ItsRhetorical said:

Mistrust all non-Humakti, friend or foe. Is my character now an NPC because the rest of the group is all non-Humakti?

Mistrusting someone doesn't mean you cannot interact with them, but it probably means you wouldn't rely on them very much. Kinda like politicians! You might vote for one, but wouldn't want to have to rely one one making good on a campaign promise.