New Publication: The Dregs of Clearwine

[Diana Probst]

Beer With Teeth are delighted to present The Dregs of Clearwine in PDF and PoD.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/320700/The-Dregs-of-Clearwine?affiliate_id=205935

A sourcebook for the roughest, lowest part of Clearwine, going into detail about the lives and relationships, the names and faces. Dregs is designed for Runequest: Roleplaying in Glorantha, and has full stat blocks for anyone we think might get into conflict, and shorter blocks for those we expect will be no trouble at all. It comprises 10 households, and 25 fully explored NPCs, plus a host of bit-parts, spear-carriers, and lowlifes.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Diana Probst
Cleaning up link

[Thaz]

Nudges this one to the top again

 

[Diana Probst]

It belongs at the top.

If anyone has bought it, and has not yet let us know, please do, on any medium.  Plus, if you have social media streams, the best thing you can do to make sure that Beer With Teeth can continue to grow and produce good work is to share what we do.

This counts for any other work you love and want to see more of.  If you like a thing, then please make sure other people have the chance to like it too.  It is good for everyone, including Chaosium, who get a slice of royalties.  It takes a couple of minutes to share, and it makes a massive difference to us.

Let us know if you do.  We love hearing about people supporting us.

[PorkLip]

The link in the first post has a pretty strange URL and seems to pass through facebook for some unknown reason.

Quote

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.drivethrurpg.com%2Fproduct%2F320700%2FThe-Dregs-of-Clearwine%3Faffiliate_id%3D205935%26fbclid%3DIwAR3yaZMhQArEWv9XBGTavFXJxZkyikV1cmjVtSic5wdfDUezwwkUTKN_130&h=AT3qs3FgJu728j3LGn1ZPhbo7MgoA2k4rfVULOq_7yZQNYldxxvLSN290nyX3XHqt68o0zLq1XcvXOjNqSdxvXLVsLRTwkYt0rYX8wUVy57-OSjLr5-IWQ2RK8_ZF9GUepdJzPKUKG81&__tn__=-UK-R&c%5B0%5D=AT3KGNC0w3-e3jYAkB3o_WD5CDE9xm9tDRZDJ7z4UkkS9OfB1mPsAdgb63XoiIIYP242XhCy5q-pOT1yQeOQPWQVDXCBz5KMsHY08cmGfFW5BzsSJpxLyCwFlKMqrkPh24i00uXZsOEYCPYVFdo7YACZGEdbt2fcGQcwL4LjpI6HAvANKCinV5byZxOhfIkXIAneTacnGlf4tHvHcvQtqGp-uLj1

/PorkLip

[Diana Probst]

Thanks for pointing that out.  I know what must have happened - after posting to FB I must have grabbed that link.

I've edited it, so it now no longer follows through strange and twisted caverns.

[PhilHibbs]

Is it normal for Drivethru POD+PDF, that you pay for the same content twice? I guess Chaosium have spoiled me...

Feel free to wait a few hours before responding, so as to bump it again though... 😹

[Diana Probst]

Drivethru lets the content providers of the Jonstown Compendium set their own pricing.

If you want the same content in two different media, then yes, pay for it twice...

But I'll explain a bit more.

While it is the same content, it is not a zero-time conversion.  Chaosium are able to take advantage of print pricing that we cannot, knowing that they have a mass market, while we need to recoup the time spend in conversion and checking (including the time that Drivethru and their print partner put into it).  It's a different calculation, although I appreciate that from the outside it looks very much the same.

You're a codesmith according to your tag, so... the same thing in C++ and C# will have the same content, but you're going to have to do some fiddling to convert one to another.  If you are asked to do both, then you'd expect to be paid for both.  You might then discount the end result because you're getting a bigger gig and *some* of the work is repeated, but if you offered an entirely free conversion, I'd be interesting in finding out your hourly rate.  I have this CNC code, you see...

The important bit is that taking the time to do the PoD means we're not doing other things; Beer With Teeth have several other things on, and for Print on Demand to be worth it for us to do - meaning you can have it at all - it needs to be better for us than working on a new adventure, or on a new sourcebook.  So there are two factors that push for a separate price for PoD vs PDF.  One is that the time should give us money because, well, this is better than not making money and it allows us to make new things later.  The other is the opportunity cost; if we offer a PoD at cost + PDF, say, then we're cannibalising our own market.  We're effectively going 'please do not buy that PDF, buy this PDF + book combo instead'.  That is good for Chaosium (and don't get me wrong, I love that it happens) but it's not good for us, because a lot of people were buying the PDF already.  It expands our market a BIT because some people only read the elfskin version, but it doesn't expand it enough that we can do it instead of the next thing we would otherwise be working on.  We are not in the same selling space as Chaosium, and our sales are never going to make us a lot of money.  If we had figures in the mid thousands, it would be different, but the short version is you have been spoiled by Chaosium, and that is GREAT.  They are awesome and take care of their fans, but they also get to use the PDF sales as early money while they check on the printing proofs, for example.  You SHOULD be spoiled by Chaosium.  They are fantastic and I love that they've got the wherewithal and the generosity to offer their Clicks and Mortar version, but... we just can't.

In order to create the PoD, we need to make it worth our while, for all those reasons.  We have added the bundle that makes them cheaper together, but the time and the self-competition mean we need to ask for more money if you get more stuff; along the line, this maximises the stuff you can get, by maximising the stuff we can create.  We're really happy that people are enthusiastic about our work, and when you buy, you make it possible for us to be in business for the next book.  We live by our fans, but we die by starvation.

I'll note that some other makers have different models.  I personally would hate to have to stop.  I LOVE having found a thing that I want to do, that also pays me.  Sharing my excitement is possible because I sell, and I'm very glad of that.  Kudos also to those who do it purely to make awesome things, and I'm not saying that free PDFs from them are bad - but I'm saying they are work, and it's also fundamentally a different model from Chaosium's.

TL;DR: Thank you, you're cool, please help me make more books by supporting this one.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Diana Probst
Detypoing

[Diana Probst]

ps, only just noticed the footnote.

HehhahahahahhahahahahHHAHHAHAHA yes.  thank you.

[Thaz]

It was actualy quite a debate if we were going to even do POD because it's a HECK of a lot of work, especially the first time.  

[Diana Probst]

Yeah.  As Thaz says, and aside from the general point, I did it because we had time because we were waiting for art to come in, and we could have launched earlier with less art.  So the PoD was a stretch goal, and doing extra and having the PoD went together.  So in one way, that cost us more money - the artist got a bigger share, instead of getting to work on the next thing.

That's actually totally beside the general point, but it really was because the art was coming in that I took the time to convert everything to PoD-ready PDF, and it being the first time there was a LOT of emotion.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Diana Probst said:

TL;DR: Thank you, you're cool, please help me make more books by supporting this one.

Oh, I did. I quickly stopped thinking about the distracting "paying twice" thing and looked at it from the value-for-money angle and $16 seemed fine. And thanks for the explanation, makes a lot of sense.

[Diana Probst]

34 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Oh, I did. I quickly stopped thinking about the distracting "paying twice" thing and looked at it from the value-for-money angle and $16 seemed fine. And thanks for the explanation, makes a lot of sense.

Really, my pleasure.  I like explaining stuff.  The more people know about the process, the more I figure they'll be supportive.  For example, I know for a fact I took up time with Drivethru's experts before the file even got to Lightning Source, the ultimate printer.  Those are costs that are not to us, but they exist, and I really REALLY want to pay them.  I want to keep the good working relationship between DTRPG and Chaosium, because those costs exist no matter how fast it is for me to produce a thing.  Chaosium have been really generous and have compressed their own royalties so that creators can get more, but we're still hosted on a platform that ultimately, has to make money to survive.  So every time a book is PoD, it has to justify the work that goes in after it's sent off by the author.  That's as compelling a reason as rent and food.

That's my addendum; my understanding is that Lightning Source does things at a certain cost, after which DTRPG and Chaosium and the creators share the money over that cost.  Having DTRPG do extra work to capture only the market that buys Dead Elf instead of Mostali Wonder-Rectangle would probably lead to a situation in which they didn't want to produce the Dead Elf bit, because they were doing extra work for the same money.  I should note that there are a LOT of variables in there, and it's guesswork, but I'm not expecting the PoD to double the number of people who buy the work.  One thing you're doing is supporting the relationship between Chaosium, DTRPG, and the authors.  So again, thank you.

See?  I told you I like explaining stuff.

[Lordabdul]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Is it normal for Drivethru POD+PDF, that you pay for the same content twice? I guess Chaosium have spoiled me...

To add to Diana's excellent explanation, another difference is that DTRPG's model (and therefore the model of people posting content on there) is inherently PDF-first. Companies like Chaosium are print-first, so the overhead situation is reversed. That said, yes, Chaosium does spoil us, and so do other companies like Pelgrane Press or Evil Hat (who even goes the extra length of giving you the PDF for free retroactively by merely sending a picture of the receipt). Apart from those, many other companies make you pay for the PDF separately, or only give a partial discount on the PDF.

(and then, there are companies like WotC who don't even make PDFs because they want you to pay subscriptions for using proprietary software but let's not go into that)

Until there's evidence that RPG book authors are swimming in $500 bills and driving sports cars, I'll always support paying more, but I'm also privileged, having enough disposable income to indulge in RPG purchases excesses.

Anyway, this is a bit of a different book coming from Beer With Teeth. Is it an indication that we might see more settings/locations books, in addition to the usual short scenarios? I hope so! I love the illustrations, and I love all the plot hooks on almost every page... it reminds me of some of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sourcebooks like Ubersreik, where you couldn't turn a page without reading at least 2 or 3 adventure ideas.

[Diana Probst]

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

Anyway, this is a bit of a different book coming from Beer With Teeth. Is it an indication that we might see more settings/locations books, in addition to the usual short scenarios? I hope so! I love the illustrations, and I love all the plot hooks on almost every page... it reminds me of some of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sourcebooks like Ubersreik, where you couldn't turn a page without reading at least 2 or 3 adventure ideas.

It's always going to depend on a few factors.  We WANT to detail a lot of Clearwine, and we want to keep on doing it all in high quality, like this.  So far, sales are good, but this took a team of 4, so we need that team to all be free for the next thing, or at least, for the management of the project to be clear.  The best thing you can do to ensure that we can work on projects like this is to help us to build sales - share the link, review it positively, give it 5 stars.

Most of the adventures are written by a team of 2, or by me with some input from others.  Dregs of Clearwine took all four of us, and was a far bigger editing job.  It's selling for more money, but it took much more time.  In fact, while waiting for some parts to be completed, I wrote and playtested Vinga's Ford, and now have the notes for another adventure and Kris and I are looking at each other over a project and going, 'we could, right?'

Every extra person on the project adds a layer of complexity, and so to get all four of us lined up will be a) ideal and b) more difficult than getting 2 of us.  We definitely have ideas, and we definitely want to do this, but if you want to help it happen, then please do spread the word.  We're a young partnership, and we're hoping to keep going for a very long time, and the best way to make that happen is to make sure people know about our work.

And if there IS another location, it'll probably have a textiles workshop.  Just saying.

[Thaz]

13 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Anyway, this is a bit of a different book coming from Beer With Teeth. Is it an indication that we might see more settings/locations books, in addition to the usual short scenarios? I hope so! I love the illustrations, and I love all the plot hooks on almost every page... it reminds me of some of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sourcebooks like Ubersreik, where you couldn't turn a page without reading at least 2 or 3 adventure ideas.

As Diana says :- We'd love to put more out like this and other complex projects. But that in part depends on sales and reception. It also depends on our day jobs (those of us who still have any!) and the state of the Multiverse. But yes the more love and purchases we get the more likely this will happen. 

[soltakss]

On 7/30/2020 at 4:17 PM, PhilHibbs said:

Is it normal for Drivethru POD+PDF, that you pay for the same content twice?

Yes, of course it is.

You can't do a CTRL-F on a print book and you cannot whack errant players around the head with a PDF.

So, they are different media and can be charged for separately.

Edited August 3, 2020 by soltakss

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

and you cannot whack errant players around the head with a PDF.

Don’t even get me started talking about the anti-zombie properties of the Guide to Glorantha (remember kids, head shots only).

[Diana Probst]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Yes, of course it is.

You can't do a CTRL-F on a print book and you cannot whack errant players around the head with a PDF.

So, they are different media and can be charged for separately.

So for the experimental god-learners among us, if you have just totalled an iPad testing that...

It was worth the knowledge.  Adding the PDF to your collection DOES make the moment funnier.

Be right back.  Roger Rabbit wants a word.

[Diana Probst]

Is anyone here the proud (or ashamed) writer or owner of a review site, or a blog/podcast?  We'd love to fix you up with a review copy.

Everyone else: 100 sold, so get in there before everyone buys the album.

[Diana Probst]

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/320700/The-Dregs-of-Clearwine?affiliate_id=205935 has now hit silver, and we've marked the occasion by sending off an update to the Print on Demand copy with fewer typos.  Thanks to everyone who mentioned those to me.

[Austin]

On 8/10/2020 at 6:16 PM, Diana Probst said:

Is anyone here the proud (or ashamed) writer or owner of a review site, or a blog/podcast?  We'd love to fix you up with a review copy.

I would, but I already ordered one.  Will have to remember that next time.

[Bill the barbarian]

On 8/10/2020 at 5:16 PM, Diana Probst said:

Is anyone here the proud (or ashamed) writer or owner of a review site, or a blog/podcast?  We'd love to fix you up with a review copy.

How about a tired and overworked (just coming up for air after our Cattle Raid episode and getting our Glorantha Has Talent? off the ground) writer, cofounder and part owner of a podcast? We are going to have to decide on our policy for accepting review copies, how would this compromise our integrity, etc. @lordabdul @Joerg, comments. Though we should probably take this into PM or an editor’s meeting and thrash it out.

Cheers

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Bill the barbarian]

Amazing, when I had a chance to think I realized I had a good portion of the answer. Evaluation copies on loan will solve integrity issues,. Of course the richer of the Podcast crew have bought copies but for those of us the find things tight we could and have  taken a loaner but, not unsolicited (we can always ask you if we cover your work) which we can destroy when the episode is done. We have done that once, but we were told to keep the copy. And in our current interview we have a loaner we will destroy when done.

Though I am just a vote amongst three, I can safely say "Integrity rules” (it just doesn’t pay)! I am sure we will get around to reviewing and talking about Beer with Teeth In the future as we have in the past. I myself have liked what I have seen!

Cheers  

Edited August 12, 2020 by Bill the barbarian
thought changed for but

[Diana Probst]

21 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Amazing, when I had a chance to think I realized I had a good portion of the answer. Evaluation copies on loan will solve integrity issues,. Of course the richer of the Podcast crew have bought copies but for those of us the find things tight we could and have  taken a loaner but, not unsolicited (we can always ask you if we cover your work) which we can destroy when the episode is done. We have done that once, thought we were told to keep the copy. And in our current interview we have a loaner we will destroy when done.

Though I am just a vote amongst three, I can safely say "Integrity rules” (it just doesn’t pay)! I am sure we will get around to reviewing and talking about Beer with Teeth In the future as we have in the past. I myself have liked what I have seen!

Cheers  

Giving out review copies is definitely a weird thing, because it's ultimately payment for the eyeballs on it.  If you don't like it, will you get more free stuff?  If you do like it, what would the chances of you liking it have been if you hadn't been given a copy?

Having squinted at it from a few angles, what I do with the things I see early is if I'm going to use a significant chunk, I buy it.  So Duel at Dangerford gave me a lot of info and also a step-up in a certain way of thinking as a GM.  I used it in a game, but I'd bought it for the way it improved my GMing.  I don't mind getting a thing that I look at and deciding I don't want to pay for it, or don't want to pay for it yet, as long as I don't then use it, so I'm happy for evaluation copies of a PDF to be looked at, and I can send those in various ways.  If you want to use them, then I've essentially had free advertising, but if you don't want to use them, then that's fine, just don't.

I would PREFER a world in which review copies get deleted, I think, partly for my own sales (huzzah) but mostly because it reduces a perceived integrity problem.

That said, so far the reviewers I have seen haven't had problems I have noticed.  But how could I tell?

Anyhow, TL;DR: let us know, but Beer With Teeth have no problems with your team sharing the work you are talking about, given that we want you to be able to talk about it fairly.

[Diana Probst]

8 hours ago, Crel said:

I would, but I already ordered one.  Will have to remember that next time.

You're my favourite TWICE.

Let us know if you have any questions, want us to appear in interviews, or can solve any major plot problems in your upcoming Clearwine Slum Saga.  Especially the last one.