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Confusion over maneuvers in 7th edition and movement in combat


Feylong

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I am just learning 7th edition CoC and have so far just run the starter solo adventure and the  follow up Paper Chase, luckily there was no combat involved.

I decided to start reading through the full Keeper book before moving onto a full session with a few friends. All was going well until I got to the section on combat. I have a couple of questions:-

1) on page 102 there is an example where it says I'm going to punch the guard, then run for the open door. However, on the very same page it clearly states that flee is an action as is to attck. Yet this example implies it would be a single action.

2) Staying with this example the Keepers reply is The guard is going to try to grab you. However, on page 103 is definately states that if attacked by melee your only choices are to dodge or fight back. this example is implying you could use a maneuver instead.Looking at the flow chart on page 109 would seem to backup the example not page 103.

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13 hours ago, Feylong said:

1) on page 102 there is an example where it says I'm going to punch the guard, then run for the open door. However, on the very same page it clearly states that flee is an action as is to attck. Yet this example implies it would be a single action.

I submitted a query about spending an action to flee: do you need to spend an action just to disengage from melee, or is the action required to flee the combat altogether. Turns out it's to flee the combat entirely.

But it does make sense that you escape the combat be smacking the guard in the nose, and while he's staggered and blinded by tears you bolt for the door. So in a sense, you used your action to flee the combat.

In the end it's at Keeper discretion, I suppose.

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10 hours ago, tendentious said:

PP 106 - Under Step 2: Make the Attack Roll; point 3 "The target of an attack may use a maneuver of their own: Resolve as for fighting back, but instead of inflicting damage, apply the effect of their maneuver."

I saw this, and the whole section seemed to be talking about maneuver to attack, but perhaps I was wrong.

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On 8/11/2020 at 1:57 PM, Feylong said:

1) on page 102 there is an example where it says I'm going to punch the guard, then run for the open door. However, on the very same page it clearly states that flee is an action as is to attck. Yet this example implies it would be a single action.

Full statement:

Player: “I’m going to punch the guard, then run for the open door.”
Keeper: “ The guard is going to try to grab you. Roll your Brawling skill.”

Which is elaborated on by:

"Notice how the request for a dice roll develops out of what the players say. In the first example the goal is to get past the guard, and the punch is simply a method of achieving the goal; damage may be in inflicted as a consequence, but the Keeper uses the dice to judge whether the maneuver is accomplished."

The paragraph is illustrating Players and Keepers giving a general overall pre-action description of what they intend to do in the encounter, not the round by round execution of that intent.  Before getting down to round by round action, the overall intent needs to be established so everyone one at the table understands what is happening.

In this case the Keeper starts the action by having the PC go first and try the punch. [player action]

My guess is that the next action will be the Guards attempt to grab the PC modified by how successful the PC's punch was [NPC action]

After that the next player action would be to flee if the Guards attempt to grab failed, or something else if the Guard succeeded.

General statements of intent establish a broad idea of what the Players wish to attempt and how the NPC's [Keeper] plans to respond. 

Just like in D&D.  The PC Fighter is facing 20 Goblins in a dungeon.

Fighter: I advance into the narrow part of the corridor so they cannot flank me and kill the goblins.

DM: The Goblins swarm forward and attack.

That does not mean that the Fighter gets to move and immediately make 20 attacks.  He will get to try to move into the narrow part first and then make his first attack.  Then they will cycle through however many rounds as it takes to end the encounter. 

 

And I really wish I knew why this forum randomly forces posts to be double spaced for no apparent reason.

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12 hours ago, Spence said:

The paragraph is illustrating Players and Keepers giving a general overall pre-action description of what they intend to do in the encounter, not the round by round execution of that intent.  Before getting down to round by round action, the overall intent needs to be established so everyone one at the table understands what is happening.

thank you, this makes sense.

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  • 5 months later...

Thanks this cleared up a few things for me.

However I am still struggling with the Movement in Combat part. 

on page 127 its says:

Quote

A character can move a number of yards equal to their MOV rate an attack normally

So with a MOV 8 you can move 8 yards (24 feet) & attack - this seems fine & quite similar to D&D.

then it says :

Quote

If the attacker moves their MOV rate multiplied by 5, they may make one melee attack at the end of the round

Wait now, what? This seems to say that now you can move 40 yards (120 feet) & then attack - at the end of the round - so I guess this means their attack drops to the bottom of initiative & they wait for everyone else to take a turn. It's a little weird & I'm not sure I have understood correctly.

ALSO, I'm not sure how "Flee" is any different from just using your movement. I would think it would have some benefit to escaping since you devote your entire turn to it.

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15 hours ago, Riquez said:

Wait now, what? This seems to say that now you can move 40 yards (120 feet) & then attack - at the end of the round - so I guess this means their attack drops to the bottom of initiative & they wait for everyone else to take a turn. It's a little weird & I'm not sure I have understood correctly.

Yes, you are correct. Any move >MOV yards & <MOV*5 yards entitles the character to an attack at the end the round. They could be attacked by the target first if it hasn't used their action(s) yet!

To 'flee' would be a Fighting Manoeuvre possibly resulting in a Chase the following round if successful.

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On 1/14/2021 at 9:33 PM, Riquez said:

Wait now, what? This seems to say that now you can move 40 yards (120 feet) & then attack - at the end of the round - so I guess this means their attack drops to the bottom of initiative & they wait for everyone else to take a turn. It's a little weird & I'm not sure I have understood correctly.

Following your DND example: It's a Charge. 

Edited by klecser
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