The Lunar book

[Eagle Talon]

I have read in some previous columns that Greg Stafford was planning on writing a Lunar book for the progress and an ending of the Hero Wars. A book that would be similar to King of Sartar but where the Lunars win the war either by conquest or alliances. 

Has there been a release or draft of this book? Or perhaps a high level view of the plot. 

Secondly, I would like to hear opinions or ideas on how this ending to the Hero Wars would unfold. 

[Nick Brooke]

To the best of my knowledge, he made no progress with this. If you look at the Stafford Library, he began laying the groundwork for a Lunar Book in the mid-nineties with the Glorious Reascent of Yelm, the Fortunate Succession, and the Entekosiad. Greg wrote various other Lunar documents (eg: the Lives of Sedenya) and some fragmentary fiction about the Renativity, Dara Happans under Sheng, etc., and had clear ideas about the fate of Moonson Argenteus, but there's nothing approaching a Lunar take on the Hero Wars. (Sketchy high-level overviews of Hero Wars mega-trends don't count, IMO, and aren't really suitable for sharing)

So, for instance, the Takenegi Stele in the Guide to Glorantha was written by Jeff Richard, not by Greg Stafford. Similarly, such details as I've seen re: Red Emperors after Argenteus (other than those in King of Sartar) are Jeff's work.

I assume a Lunar "victory" in the Hero Wars would be as unsettling and troubling to pious Lunar loyalists like myself as the details of Argrath's "victory" would be to any Orlanthi who could read. Unfortunately, Argrath's victory deprived the Orlanthi of the ability to read (and of Orlanth), so...

<shrugs>

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

To the best of my knowledge, he made no progress with this. If you look at the Stafford Library, he began laying the groundwork for a Lunar Book in the mid-nineties with the Glorious Reascent of Yelm, the Fortunate Succession, and the Entekosiad. Greg wrote various other Lunar documents (eg: the Lives of Sedenya) and some fragmentary fiction about the Renativity, Dara Happans under Sheng, etc., and had clear ideas about the fate of Moonson Argenteus, but there's nothing approaching a Lunar take on the Hero Wars. (Sketchy high-level overviews of Hero Wars mega-trends don't count, IMO, and aren't really suitable for sharing)

So, for instance, the Takenegi Stele in the Guide to Glorantha was written by Jeff Richard, not by Greg Stafford. Similarly, such details as I've seen re: Red Emperors after Argenteus (other than those in King of Sartar) are Jeff's work.

I assume a Lunar "victory" in the Hero Wars would be as unsettling and troubling to pious Lunar loyalists like myself as the details of Argrath's "victory" would be to any Orlanthi who could read. Unfortunately, Argrath's victory deprived the Orlanthi of the ability to read (and of Orlanth), so...

<shrugs>

But the Red Goddess is victorious in the Hero Wars. And it should be troubling to pious Lunar loyalists.

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

But the Red Goddess is victorious in the Hero Wars. And it should be troubling to pious Lunar loyalists.

My personal vision of  Sedenya Victorious  has always been that she marries Orlanth and becomes his "primary" wife... it's a dark and dystopian future, much like Orlanth-Victorious is.

Ernalda is "demoted" to some sort of "2nd Wife" or even "concubine"-like status... dare I even say, "handmaid?" (Ernalda retaining primacy over fertility, and very much in the model of HT-style patriarchy, fertility as service (although my envisioning came before the Hulu show)).

Sedenya becomes the Goddess who owns "my husband becomes King," taking that aspect away from Ernalda-no-longer-EarthQueen-but-Handmaid.

Sedenya shares the Kingship at her will amongst Yelm, Orlanth, and other Godking figures; sometimes in a cycle ('cos Sedenya) but sometimes adapting/adjusting that to suit the exigencies of the situation.

Chaos is an ever-larger part of Sedenya's victory.  I don't have a clear vision of how that plays out in detail, but the "ever-larger-part" is clear.

Edited August 26, 2020 by g33k

[Eff]

The true Sedenyic victory is not Orlanth dead and Ernalda supine as Sedenya's footstool. Sedenya is Her own footstool. It's Orlanth and Ernalda recognizing that they too are parts of the Great Sedenya and simply expressions of Her thoughts, personalities collaborating within the scope of Her mind. But once this is accomplished, and all of the Otherworld moves in a Lunatic fashion, then there's no need for the Red Moon to hang in the sky anymore, for all the gods have become the Moon. 

[Nick Brooke]

Yes. This.

A grimly unsatisfactory Lunar "victory" would be the Empire materially triumphant and spiritually void.

[John Biles]

6 hours ago, g33k said:

 

Chaos is an ever-larger part of Sedenya's victory.  I don't have a clear vision of how that plays out in detail, but the "ever-larger-part" is clear.

 

5 hours ago, Eff said:

The true Sedenyic victory is not Orlanth dead and Ernalda supine as Sedenya's footstool. Sedenya is Her own footstool. It's Orlanth and Ernalda recognizing that they too are parts of the Great Sedenya and simply expressions of Her thoughts, personalities collaborating within the scope of Her mind. But once this is accomplished, and all of the Otherworld moves in a Lunatic fashion, then there's no need for the Red Moon to hang in the sky anymore, for all the gods have become the Moon. 

Darkness was the first Element to emerge from Chaos because it espoused 'I AM', a scream of 'I exist and I am different'.

If we are all us, then the road by which the world dissolves back into Chaos is clear.  Without individuation, everyone dissolves back into the Red Goddess and the Red Goddess herself ceases to exist.

Basically, we're talking End of Evangelion, in Glorantha.

All of the children of the Man rune and everything else turn into red goo, are absorbed into the Red Godess and then we are all us in truth.

 

[Eff]

13 minutes ago, John Biles said:

 

Darkness was the first Element to emerge from Chaos because it espoused 'I AM', a scream of 'I exist and I am different'.

If we are all us, then the road by which the world dissolves back into Chaos is clear.  Without individuation, everyone dissolves back into the Red Goddess and the Red Goddess herself ceases to exist.

Basically, we're talking End of Evangelion, in Glorantha.

All of the children of the Man rune and everything else turn into red goo, are absorbed into the Red Godess and then we are all us in truth.

 

Well, thankfully Sedenya is not one, two, or zero. There's at least twenty of Her just off the top of my head. So as "Komm, süsser tod" starts playing and the Gloranthan Instrumentality Project comes to fruition, rest assured that there's still individuality and differentiation. We are all Us, but I am not You. 

Now, the merging into colorful goo, well, yes, there's that minor factor. 

[g33k]

5 hours ago, John Biles said:

Darkness was the first Element to emerge from Chaos because it espoused 'I AM', a scream of 'I exist and I am different'.

I thought that was more the Umath schtick, primal Storm.

I don't recall primal dark being quite that... demonstrative, declarative.  It doesn't so much care that you know it is; it's equally happy to eat you whether you're cognizant of it or ignorant of it.

[RHW]

On 8/26/2020 at 9:46 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Yes. This.

A grimly unsatisfactory Lunar "victory" would be the Empire materially triumphant and spiritually void.

So business as usual for the Lunars?

[Qizilbashwoman]

On 8/26/2020 at 12:44 PM, Eff said:

The true Sedenyic victory is not Orlanth dead and Ernalda supine as Sedenya's footstool. Sedenya is Her own footstool. It's Orlanth and Ernalda recognizing that they too are parts of the Great Sedenya and simply expressions of Her thoughts, personalities collaborating within the scope of Her mind. But once this is accomplished, and all of the Otherworld moves in a Lunatic fashion, then there's no need for the Red Moon to hang in the sky anymore, for all the gods have become the Moon. 

I've wondered if the White Moon movement is a "regressive" version of the Sedenya cult that is more aligned with traditional practices, one that would permit Her to join the various "orthodox" runic pantheonic practices. Not the all-engrossing, rune-devouring mother, but yet another goddess.

[John Biles]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:10 PM, Qizilbashwoman said:

I've wondered if the White Moon movement is a "regressive" version of the Sedenya cult that is more aligned with traditional practices, one that would permit Her to join the various "orthodox" runic pantheonic practices. Not the all-engrossing, rune-devouring mother, but yet another goddess.

The Red Goddess was basically created to kick people's ass and anything else was a side benefit.  Which is why she ended up creating an empire which goes out and kicks people's ass.  

The White Moon basically reflects the inequities in Lunar society, I expect the White Moon ranges from cults which want to overthrow the rulers of Lunar society to cults which have the agenda you hypothesized to cults which are intended to keep those angry at Lunar inequalities from doing anything actually *dangerous*.