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Hi all. Over the course of Runequest's history, as I'm sure you all know, there's been a distinct lack of official Heroquesting rules. Hopefully that problem will soon be rectified, but in the meantime I'd like to get an idea of what all the community has come up with in the nearly 50 years since RQ1 came out. What homebrew systems were out there? Who made them and what were they like? Which ones, if any, did you use? And, if possible, where can they be found? I know we've recently been blessed with an excellent set of HQing rules via the Jonstown Compendium, but I'm just curious as to what else is or was out there.

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In my HQ rules - I'm reversing the position of runes and skills - instead of the Rune Augmenting the skill - the Skill augments the Rune - EG fighting using a broadsword is a test of ones Air rune (or

Sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't. I don't think that is necessarily the case. Someone can perform the Orlanth Slays Yelm HeroQuest to get rid of a local ruler. He doesn't need

This is an interesting thread – we are still finding our way with HeroQuests. After returning to Glorantha after a 35+ year break, we have had three HeroQuests in our short game so far. As we come to

2 hours ago, Richard S. said:

What homebrew systems were out there? Who made them and what were they like? Which ones, if any, did you use? And, if possible, where can they be found? I know we've recently been blessed with an excellent set of HQing rules via the Jonstown Compendium, but I'm just curious as to what else is or was out there.

While Arcane Lore has fragments of ideas, as well as ideas for Heroquests, I never found it had enough workable components from a rules standpoint.

HQG, on the other hand, I found fully usable for Heroquesting.  And I ended up using its core ideas for Heroquesting when I started my RQG campaign.  And really have not had to introduce any other rules into my game in order to Heroquest to this point.  I just use a Ritual (successful Worship + MP sacrifice) to achieve the Crossover, but beyond that nothing special needed.

(May not be much help, but its worked fine in my games so far.)

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Speaking for myself, I would use the RuneQuest rules in strange and unexpected ways. RuneQuest defines/simulates the mundane world, and we aren’t in Sartar any more, so adventurers might find themselves rolling vs. their essential Runes and Passions more often than their mundane Skills. In my games, heroquests have usually been accidental and frightening events - they aren’t ever quite what my players planned to do.

For related reasons, I’m also a big fan of confusing my players - they don’t know whether they’re in a mundane “real world” reenactment ceremony, or off their skulls on hazia and Crazy Black Widebrew, or trapped in a pocket dimension. I like it that way: it means I don’t ever have to pin down exactly what’s happening, and can go with the flow of the story.

(The bits of heroquest rulesets where you tot up worshipper numbers or magic points spent to work out what happens, or divvy up abstract reward points between notional pools of beneficiaries, are terrible intrusions into my storytelling idiom, and get handwaved away or ignored)

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I don't know... I don't know and it is my problem

 

so I will not make heroquest before gagog (hoping there is the answer)

If no answer I would use a mix of :

- cult knowledge to know what the god did during the myth in this station

- rune roll to do as the god did before (if you succeed at cult knowledge), if you succeed, you do as your god without loss (rune pool, ...), if you fail... depends on the impact of a failure (stop the heroquest, let a new try, move to some unknown path)

- skill roll to do something different (if you know that your god did differently or if you don't know what your god did) with malus if it is really not what the god may do in such situation. if you want to use a spell, the skill roll is in fact a rune roll, but then you lose temporary rune pool as usual

- fight is different, if the god fought, use your skill but with the bonus/malus of the god rune (ex: add bonus to Zorak Zoran character on hill of gold because he won, add malus to Yelmalio character on hill of gold because he lost.

at the end of the station :

a) you are the winner and the god is the winner, you are aligned, good, next station

b) you are the winner and the god is the loser (imagine Yelmalio versus ZZ), maybe you gain an atypic power (use fireblade as yelamalian ?), but I would add a devotion test to stay in the heroplan :

  •   you succeed you stay as your god, next station
  •  you failed,you leave the heroplan and -10 in devotion  ( more individual power, but you just experiment something different than your god and was "better" than him/her...)

c) you are the loser and the god is the winner, maybe you gain a geas/taboo, maybe you lose some power (permanent rune point, skill, ...), and I would add a devotion test to stay in the heroplan :

  •   you succeed you stay as your god, next station
  •  you failed,you leave the heroplan and -10 in devotion 

d) you are the loser and the god is the loser, you are aligned, good, next station

 

but here are my main concerns :

  • what are opposition stats ?  (not only people / god / but also the mountain malus to climb, etc...)
  • what is the impact on pc stats at the end of the quest ? (experience check ? double experience check ? ...)
  • what is the impact of community support ? (+x% to all tests, a pool of % you can consume as you want, a reduction of stat from one opponent ?

For example Leika stats are not exceptional (It would be useful to see Argrath's stats to figure what is the "max") but she succeeds some heroquest ? How was she able to do it ? Should the opponent stat have 1000% when she has 120% ? probably not.

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3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

so I will not make heroquest before gagog (hoping there is the answer)

If you mean the Cults of Glorantha book, that won't have any heroquesting rules. (I think those will end up in a RuneQuest Gamemaster's Guide, instead)

The idea that to participate in a heroquest you need leet megaskills is IMO mistaken, and stands in the way of most RQ groups having fun with Glorantha. SuperRuneQuest is a deprecated model these days, although you can find fragments of it in Simon Phipp's JC books (Secrets of Dorastor & Secrets of Heroquesting), if that's what you're after.

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I've always felt that the difficulty is that I've never really known the myths the the heroquests are supposed to be representing - they either seem to come from obscure publications that I don't have, or I read them and I don't see what the myth is supposed to be telling me enough to get a handle on it for what is supposed to actually happen on the heroquest. 

It would be useful if these myths etc were all together somewhere, for a start, by pantheon/deity. I don't know if that will be in CoG but I would think it would add a lot more pages to the already sizeable books...

Edited by d(sqrt(-1))
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3 minutes ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

It would be useful if these myths etc were all together somewhere, for a start, by pantheon/deity.

There are quite a few already freely available, however, the real problem is that you can make them up yourself and there are no real guidelines for doing that, except by reading things like Hero with a 1000 faces and plenty of other real world mythology / fairytales / ye olde stories. Then having the confidence to run them as a game for your players. Also recognising what is available that can be turned into a heroquest can be challenging if you don't know what it is you are looking at, for example, in RuneQuest, each cult special rune spell is a heroquest.

some myths are here: 

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I've only just discovered Well of Daliath while looking for RQG errata/FAQ, so that's an interesting link, thanks.

I've read a fair bit of mythology/fairytales etc, but the problem I often have is that I think "that's an interesting story", but if you ask me what hidden truth it's supposed to reveal I would have no idea unless it's something like "walking on your own through a wolf infested wood is a bad idea" - well duh! Must be me.

Do you know I've been an RQ fan for years but I never knew that about the cult special runespells - now that would be nice, with each rune spell is the associated myth and some explanation for those of us whose "Spot the Bleedin' Obvious" skill is very low...

 

Edited by d(sqrt(-1))
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I think also, in a lot of the Glorantha myths I've read, they reference by name lots of other things that are undefined, so they end up just being a meaningless name to me. Now I know that can be evocative, but by the time I've got to the end there are maybe 20+ things I have no idea what they are (I just looked at the first one on Well of Daliath for Shargash as an example). I did find a similar thing with the PC generation in RQG - there were things mentioned in there that grandparents/parents were involved in, but they meant nothing to me because there was no definition, just a name.

Because of that I find them really difficult to read or understand because the text has sort of turned into, "And then X happened, as a result of Y, which caused Z, and that really upset N" etc. 

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2 minutes ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Do you know I've been an RQ fan for years but I never knew that about the cult special runespells - now that would be nice, with each rune spell is the associated myth and some explanation for those of us whose "Spot the Bleedin' Obvious" skill is very low...

by extension, all those odd subcults in Hero Wars / Heroquest are also the cult special rune spells:

Orlanth Vanganth the Flyer subcult is Fly

Orlanth Vingkot Champion is Command Worshipers

etc.

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22 minutes ago, David Scott said:

by extension, all those odd subcults in Hero Wars / Heroquest are also the cult special rune spells:

Orlanth Vanganth the Flyer subcult is Fly

Orlanth Vingkot Champion is Command Worshipers

etc.

 

Despite having HW/HQ in various incarnations I never got my head round how the magic was supposed to actually work - the base system for HQ I thought was pretty good.

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7 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Speaking for myself, I would use the RuneQuest rules in strange and unexpected ways. RuneQuest defines/simulates the mundane world, and we aren’t in Sartar any more, so adventurers might find themselves rolling vs. their essential Runes and Passions more often than their mundane Skills. In my games, heroquests have usually been accidental and frightening events - they aren’t ever quite what my players planned to do.

For related reasons, I’m also a big fan of confusing my players - they don’t know whether they’re in a mundane “real world” reenactment ceremony, or off their skulls on hazia and Crazy Black Widebrew, or trapped in a pocket dimension. I like it that way: it means I don’t ever have to pin down exactly what’s happening, and can go with the flow of the story.

Yes! To all the above.  

7 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

(The bits of heroquest rulesets where you tot up worshipper numbers or magic points spent to work out what happens, or divvy up abstract reward points between notional pools of beneficiaries, are terrible intrusions into my storytelling idiom, and get handwaved away or ignored)

I think there's a tendency to equate Heroquesting with "Superworld" where you suddenly can go to 300% broadsword so that you can fight the Dragon with the 50 point armor.  This may be something of a legacy/heritage from D&D and the idea of "leveling up".  

Yes, there are powerful entities and terrifying obstacles in the Otherworld, if you quest there, and there are approaches towards those entities and obstacles that are "Nearly Impossible" to achieve (using the HQG term).  But there are other approaches that just may work to achieve the goal - and they don't require super powers to do so, but may require use of Runes, Passions, dancing, singing, and any number of skills to achieve.

5 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

How was she able to do it ?

She accepted the Duke of Disorder's offer to join his Feast, and eventually spotted the Harp that was playing in plain view. However, to escape the feast she had to offend the host. (If you wish to read her quest into Snakepipe Hollow, it's in Wyrms Footnotes #14 - which you can get as pdf now at the Chaosium site.)  

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

If you mean the Cults of Glorantha book, that won't have any heroquesting rules. (I think those will end up in a RuneQuest Gamemaster's Guide, instead)

I believe that is correct.  However, the Gods/Cults book will have a broad range of myths, and those should all be usable to help frame Heroquests.

1 hour ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

I've always felt that the difficulty is that I've never really known the myths the the heroquests are supposed to be representing - they either seem to come from obscure publications that I don't have, or I read them and I don't see what the myth is supposed to be telling me enough to get a handle on it for what is supposed to actually happen on the heroquest. 

While the Gods book will help some in providing a broad range of gods from all the pantheons, and can read the summaries of the myths, they will probably not give you more than you have seen in other cults books.  

For two of the pantheons (Storm and Sun) you can can a broader range of myths (with more of the details of the stories) now:  Heortling Mythology and Glorious ReAscent of Yelm (both in the Stafford Library series).  

Having those in hand may help provide some framework, but more important in Heroquesting is understanding the mythic cycle. There's a nice summary of that in the Jonstown Compendium work, Six Seasons in Sartar, but it's almost always derived in some way from Joseph Campbell's Hero with a 1000 Faces as well as typical fairytale motif.

1 hour ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

I think also, in a lot of the Glorantha myths I've read, they reference by name lots of other things that are undefined, so they end up just being a meaningless name to me.

They usually are undefined, and there's not usually any underlying meaning to the name.  They are no different in that sense from the Enchanted Wood, the Well at the World's End, Faraway, etc.  Myths are not usually allegories, so the point of the name is that it is "somewhere else".  

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40 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

They usually are undefined, and there's not usually any underlying meaning to the name.  They are no different in that sense from the Enchanted Wood, the Well at the World's End, Faraway, etc.  Myths are not usually allegories, so the point of the name is that it is "somewhere else".  

 

Agreed, and that's fine in a story (and the names you quote are explicit as they say "somewhere else" and "different"), but if players are potentially going to interact with random person/god/place X it's nice to at least have some idea of what it's meant to be, and its powers.

Myths are not allegories? I thought that's exactly what they are supposed to be?

 

Edited by d(sqrt(-1))
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15 hours ago, Richard S. said:

I know we've recently been blessed with an excellent set of HQing rules via the Jonstown Compendium, but I'm just curious as to what else is or was out there.

Of course, I cannot let the chance to link to Secrets of HeroQuesting pass.

 

15 hours ago, Richard S. said:

in the meantime I'd like to get an idea of what all the community has come up with in the nearly 50 years since RQ1 came out. What homebrew systems were out there? Who made them and what were they like? Which ones, if any, did you use? And, if possible, where can they be found?

These are the rules that I read before coming yup with my own rules:

  • Steve Maurer's HeroQuest System 
  • YAHQS (Nils Weinander's HeroQuest System)
  • David Dunham's PenDragon Pass
  • Nikk Effingham's Excellent pages

The links are probably dead, but you might be able to search for them on Google or on the Wayback Engine.

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

While Arcane Lore has fragments of ideas, as well as ideas for Heroquests, I never found it had enough workable components from a rules standpoint.

It is good for ideas, though, even ideas that don't really work.

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

HQG, on the other hand, I found fully usable for Heroquesting.

Yes, there are good ideas there.

In fact, I review the HeroQuesting rules from various official supplements in Secrets of HeroQuesting.

8 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Speaking for myself, I would use the RuneQuest rules in strange and unexpected ways.

Yes, my great preference is to use the rules that you currently use for Glorantha, but with extensions for HeroQuesting and just allowing more things to happen.

 

6 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

but here are my main concerns :

  • what are opposition stats ?  (not only people / god / but also the mountain malus to climb, etc...)

It depends on what HeroQuest you are doing and where.

If you raid a troll clan to steal a magical item and use the Sandals of Darkmess HeroQuest, you will meet the trolls in that clan, albeit juiced up as they are now on a HeroQuest.

However, if you raid the Castle of Lead and steal the Most High Priestess of Kyger Litor then you will meet very powerful foes.

If you go onto the God Plane and steal the Sandals of darkness from kyger Litor, then you will meet demigod or deity-level opponents.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

by extension, all those odd subcults in Hero Wars / Heroquest are also the cult special rune spells:

Orlanth Vanganth the Flyer subcult is Fly

Orlanth Vingkot Champion is Command Worshipers

etc.

That is an excellent way of looking at it.

28 minutes ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Agreed, and that's fine in a story (and the names you quote are explicit as they say "somewhere else" and "different"), but if players are potentially going to interact with random person/god/place X it's nice to at least have some idea of what it's meant to be, and its powers.

HeroQuestors rarely encounter the actual deities, unless they are on the God Plane.

Instead they meet other HeroQuestors.

What powers does a Kyger Litor HeroQuestor have? Look at other trolls or the Kyger Litor writeup.

28 minutes ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Myths are not allegories? I thought that's exactly what they are supposed to be?

They are both.

Myths have hidden meanings, that are not mentioned in the myth.

Myths also have practical applications and can be used as templates for HeroQuests.

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10 minutes ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

Myths are not allegories? I thought that's exactly what they are supposed to be?

No, myths are not meant as allegories.  You could have a quest that ends up as an allegory, where the figures you encounter are symbolic representations of a moral or ethical quality (common in Arthurian literature, if I recall correctly), and you can have myths that encounter symbolic representations.  Plato's Cave, for instance, is an allegory. Parables are allegories. 

Myths tell the story of how a culture came to be, of how the heroes of the culture overcame trials and obstacles to return with the treasures of that culture.   

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4 hours ago, d(sqrt(-1)) said:

I think also, in a lot of the Glorantha myths I've read, they reference by name lots of other things that are undefined, so they end up just being a meaningless name to me.

I hear you,  and I am really hoping (and Joerg especially for that matter) that some of our erudite will take advantage of Glorantha Has Talent? contest to record a few short myths to help new players and to act as play aids. Joerg has given an example of a recorded myth in Episode 6 of Wind Words.

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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8 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Myths have hidden meanings, that are not mentioned in the myth.

Myths also have practical applications and can be used as templates for HeroQuests.

Orlanth (the storm) slays Yelm (the sun) is one of the fundamental Gloranthan myths.  It explains: 1) why the Sun does not stay in the Sky; and 2) why the storm blocks sunlight.  It also establishes certain symbolism that is used in other tales.

You could read other meanings into it, or potentially develop allegories from it, but basically the myth defines how the world got to be the way it is.  

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3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

She accepted the Duke of Disorder's offer to join his Feast, and eventually spotted the Harp that was playing in plain view. However, to escape the feast she had to offend the host. (If you wish to read her quest into Snakepipe Hollow, it's in Wyrms Footnotes #14 - which you can get as pdf now at the Chaosium site.)  

I didn't know, so thanks, and I may read it ! but my point was about RQG rules : she has "low" skills. What skilled/pow/difficulty ... are the opposition ?

 

 

5 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

If you mean the Cults of Glorantha book, that won't have any heroquesting rules. (I think those will end up in a RuneQuest Gamemaster's Guide, instead)

The idea that to participate in a heroquest you need leet megaskills is IMO mistaken, and stands in the way of most RQ groups having fun with Glorantha. SuperRuneQuest is a deprecated model these days, although you can find fragments of it in Simon Phipp's JC books (Secrets of Dorastor & Secrets of Heroquesting), if that's what you're after.

Right I m a bit lost in all these so expected books. And agreed too, I disliked the "SuperRuneQuest" model (i don't know if it is an idea or a kind of trademark) because that is not consistent with NPC we know (again my Leika example) or we knew (like Solanthos in sun county)

 

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

It depends on what HeroQuest you are doing and where.

If you raid a troll clan to steal a magical item and use the Sandals of Darkmess HeroQuest, you will meet the trolls in that clan, albeit juiced up as they are now on a HeroQuest.

However, if you raid the Castle of Lead and steal the Most High Priestess of Kyger Litor then you will meet very powerful foes.

If you go onto the God Plane and steal the Sandals of darkness from kyger Litor, then you will meet demigod or deity-level opponents.

Agreed too but there we need stats or range of stats (I mean skill%, ...) for these heroic foes. What are the stats of Orlanth when you are a yelmite heroquester facing him for music or fight contest ?

And I m not confortable with the "mundane level" heroquest (your first example). I found a lot of example of mundane level heroquest but never was explained what is the difference (in gameplay/roleplay) between heroquest and just quest. Taking your example, comparing 3 situations :

Harry the butcher, well known apprentice magician of the yelmite griffon clan,  goes to steal a magical item in a troll clan.

Hermione the vingan, issue from a granger family of the orlanthi clan, goes to steal a magical item in troll clan.

Ronald Redhair (no link with vingan... but no.. at least not yet.), is  a weird atheist, goes to steal a magical item in troll clan

What would be the difference ? Ok they have not the same magic, but must Hermione be in a heroquest because what she does is about what Orlanth did ? when at least Ronald (don't try to find a solar myth  :p) is just using mundane activities ? Should the bounty or the difficulty different because one is in heroquest and the other(s) not ?

in my vision mundane level heroquest is "just" a standard scenario (I may be wrong) then I don't understand why I find so many time this "mundane level" heroquest. Maybe you learn more (cult lore) or love more your god (devotion) ?  I don't know

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1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

but my point was about RQG rules : she has "low" skills. What skilled/pow/difficulty ... are the opposition ?

Since I play both HQG and RQG, I tend to think of the opposition "level" in somewhat relative terms in relation to the PC's on the quest, e.g. Low, Moderate, High/Hard, Very High/Hard, Nearly Impossible.  (While you can add more gradients, these 5 are good to illustrate how you might approach in RQG.)

I start with two key points in the quest - what you might term the center point or turning point (a critical obstacle that is likely to defeat or block them) and the final climax/resolution.  The centerpoint should be Nearly Impossible either because the questers aren't ready, don't have the tools, or it's critical that they fail here.  Whether this is a physical barrier (the Iron Door, the Stairway to Heaven) or a particular guardian (Death, Arkat, the Black Eater, the Mother of Monsters), the opposition is at least a "mastery" higher.  If the PC's are at 100%, then the opposition is 200% (effectively bumping the PC skill down to 5%); if the Humakti can buff himself up with inspiration and magic to 200%, the opposition is 300% (effectively bumping the PC skill down to 5%).  The odds of the PC achieving a sufficient difference in whatever the contest is to overcome the obstacle is very low:  1% for critical/special.

The final climax may be the same level, but only in certain specific directions (e.g. if you're fighting Humakt to claim the Sword Death, then Humakt, who is Death, will still be a mastery above you in Swordfighting).  The difference though is that in the quest, you've gained something that allows you to potentially succeed and gain the reward (i.e. instead of being Nearly Impossible, the difficulty is Very High instead).  Perhaps you now know the Song of Grief.  You sing it, and must overcome Humakt's Separation from Life (perhaps you must overcome his Death Rune, which is might be 100 or 125 or 150% as he is "cold-hearted") - probably something like half a mastery, or 50% above the skill you're using. You succeed, and Humakt is overcome by Grief for the truth and reality that must be Death.  He allows you to claim Death, and carry it honorably and truthfully in His name to "deliver the blow that must be dealt".

From there, you can work out a scale that works for you.  Moderate is likely equal to your skill - 50% chance to win/lose, more or less.  With Very High at roughly half a mastery above you, that puts High somewhere in-between - so maybe the key opposition skill is 33% better than yours in whatever it is that you need to accomplish (e.g. sneak past the troll guard to get the Sandals of Darkness may mean the guard's Listen and Darksense: Search are that much better than your Hide and Move Quietly).

You can figure POW in a similar manner.

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2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

And I m not confortable with the "mundane level" heroquest (your first example).

Mundane HeroQuests are, for me, the most common type of HeroQuesting.

Many of the HeroQuests described are actually Mundane HeroQuests.

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I found a lot of example of mundane level heroquest but never was explained what is the difference (in gameplay/roleplay) between heroquest and just quest. Taking your example, comparing 3 situations :

Harry the butcher, well known apprentice magician of the yelmite griffon clan,  goes to steal a magical item in a troll clan.

Hermione the vingan, issue from a granger family of the orlanthi clan, goes to steal a magical item in troll clan.

Ronald Redhair (no link with vingan... but no.. at least not yet.), is  a weird atheist, goes to steal a magical item in troll clan

What would be the difference ? Ok they have not the same magic, but must Hermione be in a heroquest because what she does is about what Orlanth did ? when at least Ronald (don't try to find a solar myth  :p) is just using mundane activities ? Should the bounty or the difficulty different because one is in heroquest and the other(s) not ?

For me, a HeroQuest is when you lay a Myth over a situation, that makes the situation like the Myth. A situation without a Myth is a scenario. A Myth without a situation is a story.

So, by laying the Myth over the situation, you can draw on the power of the Myth and the power of the HeroQuest to do things that are not normally possible.

Looking at your examples, what Myths are they using?

Harry the Butcher might be using Yelm in the Underworld, so Yelm's Descent, then Yelm's Return, but he would need to take something as well.

Hermione the Vingan could use the Sandals of Darkness to steal a magical item, as Vinga gets many Orlanth HeroQuests.

I don't know a lot about sorcerous HeroQuests, to be honest.

Someone raiding a troll clan needs to sneak in, get past the guards, find the inner sanctum or where the magic item is, take it and fight their way out again.

However, someone on a HeroQuest such as the Sandals of Darkness finds that the encounters tend to fit the HeroQuest Myth, so it shortcuts the process and, to an extent, makes it easier. What this also means is that the opponents are also playing their part in the HeroQuest. the leader of the clan will be sleeping, as Kyger Litor was sleeping, the troll guards would be like Gore and Gash and so on.

Harry the Butcher might be going in blazing like the Sun, burning any trolls who meets him, is captured and stays imprisoned as Maggotliege and needs someone to come and rescue him, then fights his way out. By doing the HeroQuest, he guarantees that he will be captured and not killed and that someone will come and rescue him.

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

in my vision mundane level heroquest is "just" a standard scenario (I may be wrong) then I don't understand why I find so many time this "mundane level" heroquest. Maybe you learn more (cult lore) or love more your god (devotion) ?  I don't know

To a certain extent, you define the goals of the HeroQuest. If you want to steal a magic item then the goal is to steal the item. If you want to gain insights and powers, you gain insights and powers. Increasing Devotion is a good result, as it increasing Cult Lore. You could get a spell or magic item, or whatever.

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In my HQ rules - I'm reversing the position of runes and skills - instead of the Rune Augmenting the skill - the Skill augments the Rune - EG fighting using a broadsword is a test of ones Air rune (or Death rune, or even Movement rune, depending on narration and goal), if you want to augment that then you can use your Broadsword skill (or possibly other skill if narrated).  One roll of the air rune is all that is used - from which the players and I can narrate the outcome using opposed rolls.  Using the same rune over and over will be penalized just the same way as multiple parries in a round are penalized (i.e. -20%).  We have our first otherworld HQ using these rules (obtaining a Wyter for the Orgovale Summer cult) - if I capture enough notes I'll relay our experience here.

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45 minutes ago, soltakss said:

For me, a HeroQuest is when you lay a Myth over a situation, that makes the situation like the Myth. A situation without a Myth is a scenario. A Myth without a situation is a story.

So, by laying the Myth over the situation, you can draw on the power of the Myth and the power of the HeroQuest to do things that are not normally possible.

Seems like a reasonable way to phrase it.

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

in my vision mundane level heroquest is "just" a standard scenario (I may be wrong) then I don't understand why I find so many time this "mundane level" heroquest. Maybe you learn more (cult lore) or love more your god (devotion) ?  I don't know

@soltakss provided some good thoughts above.

Let's take the example of the Cattle Raid from the RQ Adventures book.  It's a mundane event.  Cattle get lost, get taken by the Malani, and now you have to get them back.  Simple story, no myth involved, no heroquest involved.  It's just something you do day-to-day.  

3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Taking your example, comparing 3 situations :

Harry the butcher, well known apprentice magician of the yelmite griffon clan,  goes to steal a magical item in a troll clan.

Hermione the Vingan ...

Looking at these three examples, they are all simple stories where someone sets off to steal the magic item from the trolls.  

It's when you layer a myth onto the event that it becomes a heroquest.  What does that practically mean?  The myth has characters/participants.  One myth that could be used is the Sandals of Darkness.  Orlanth was the quester.  He went into the Underworld to steal the sandals from Kyger Litor.  She has guards at her chamber to ensure no one disturbs her while sleeping.  That the Sandals are magical is part of the myth too.

So, instead of Hermione (or whichever), setting off and sneaking into the troll caves, she gets the blessing of the clan to perform this as a quest.  The clan is investing its power in Hermione, and it expects some reward out of it should she succeed.  Why does the clan do so?  Perhaps it's to keep trollkin from sneaking into the tula.  Perhaps it is to enable the clan to raid the Malani more effectively.  So they back her effort.  That means she takes part in a Worship service where she is Identified with Orlanth/Vinga - she is probably dressed to specifically look like them (perhaps painted in woad so she can "be the wind"), takes on ritual objects, etc.  Magic is cast, she is blessed, and she heads off in the correct "ritual direction".  

She is still in the mundane world - it's a this-world heroquest.  For the most part, the quest to the troll caves is no different than the simple quest to steal the magic item.  Except that she is ritually Orlanth/Vinga.  The events/encounters that happen on the way become tied to the myth.  When she arrives at the caves, if she is seen, she is seen as Orlanth/Vinga.  The guards she faces are dark trolls, but they are also Gore and Gash. Sneaking past them is critical, otherwise they break her legs, and then ransom her.  Stealing the Sandals is obviously critical, too, and then getting away with them.  If she succeeds in the quest, as Orlanth did, she's brought back more than just the magical sandals - she's also stolen a power from the troll clan.  Her clan gains a magical benefit from the deed - maybe all their cattle raiders can now learn the Dark Walk spell (maybe one-use as this is a small, this-world quest).  And that's really the difference - the gain is not just the magical item, but what the magical item provides to the larger community.

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thanks all I follow your path to illumination

 

How paranoiac shoud be a gloranthan people

As any attacker (here our vingan) can prepare a ritual to change the balance of power ; that mean you, who own something must do the same (but when ? every day ? every year ? ) to counter a potential attack...

 

I understand now Argrath, if there is no more gods (or they are farest than previously), there is no more this-world quests. Good for sanity

 

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2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

As any attacker (here our vingan) can prepare a ritual to change the balance of power ; that mean you, who own something must do the same (but when ? every day ? every year ? ) to counter a potential attack...

Yes, and that's one reason you screen those who seek to be initiated - they have to pass the tests.

Also, quests can fail.  Investing your clan or community's power if there is a good probably of failure is not something to lightly undertake.  If Hermione fails, and the trolls catch her and break her legs during a heroquest, that will literally "cripple" the clan in some capacity.  Maybe a plague of trollkin eat the crops shortly before harvest.  Or a dark blight kills the crops.  Or the clan Rune magics are weak or fail when they are confronting creatures of darkness.  Or everyone in the clan in struck with a Fear (darkness) passion.  Lots of options, some could just be one-time, some could be lingering - the more you invest in the quest, the greater the consequences if defeated.

Or the trolls may heroquest to regain the Sandals, or steal something else that the clan treasures (e.g. the sacred idol of the Earth Queen).  And that's a whole new storyline.

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