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Adaras

Architecture in Pendragon

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Hi everyone. 

So I got to wonder about how the houses and halls would look in Pendragon. Most medieval stuff I find is often very Anglo-Saxon for obvious reasons.

I know some of the bigger cities would still have roman architecture after the Legions left, but most other places and villages probably reverted to more primitive states.

Do any of your have any thoughts on the architecture? Perhaps some resources that can sate my curiosity.

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I'd say you have a mix of Celtic (native pre-Roman designs), Roman (mostly the cities and villas), and Medieval (the age of knighthood), architecture. One thing worth noting is that with the accelerated technological advances, the "Medieval" architecture would actually cover nearly a thousand years, from post-Roman Britain to  16th century Gothic. If you got the old Lordly Domains supplement or older Nobles Book, you can see  some of the evolution in terms of castles, with castles becoming more complex, and multilayered, towers become more rounded and so forth. As castles represent the dwelling places of the ruling classes similar characteristics will trickle down to manor houses of knights, churches and so on. As times goes on the Celtic and Roman building should be upgraded to latter designs.

For resorces, I suggest you look up any famous buildings and look at the year they were constructed. St. Paul's, Notre Dame, the Tower of London, the old Roman villas near Grateley and Tisbury, Celtic round houses. All this should help to give you an idea of what was available and when.

 

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Hi there Atgxtg :D thank you for the reply.

The thing that keeps running through my mind and yes this is just very small and not of any consequnece. But later architecture is more Norman or Anglo-Saxon in design. The Celtic design more or less vanishes completely as its overtaken by the Invaders. 

So I am wondering if one should try to imagine what the celtic architecture would look like if not changed the Saxon and Norman style later on? :D 

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42 minutes ago, Adaras said:

So I am wondering if one should try to imagine what the celtic architecture would look like if not changed the Saxon and Norman style later on? :D

As Atgxtg already said... Since KAP is basically borrowing its aesthetics (knights in armor, castles) from the Middle Ages, explicitly so when it comes to clothing fashion in GPC, I'd just steal the Norman architecture whole hog. Bring in those fancy Gothic Cathedrals!

Edited by Morien

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Thanks Morien :)

I guess i get a little caught up in the campaign like I am a knight fighting against the saxon invaders, and then I want to design my manor and all the reference is like Saxon or Norman style and Im like "no that is the evil invader style buuh" :P

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4 minutes ago, Adaras said:

I guess i get a little caught up in the campaign like I am a knight fighting against the saxon invaders, and then I want to design my manor and all the reference is like Saxon or Norman style and Im like "no that is the evil invader style buuh" :P

No, you have to flip it around a bit. The Cymri, especially after Badon, are the Normans. It is not an exact fit (outside the reconquered Saxon settlements, the peasants are Cymri as well), but the point is that the knightly, Norman architecture is Cymric architecture in this world. You wouldn't build a Saxon Meadhall with horsehead gables, but you would build a great hall in the Norman style.

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And it might be worth noting that medieval manors tend to be small plain buildings, not the elaborate mansions we think of as manor houses today. I believe I posted a plan for one awhile back and it's pretty much two levels and five or so rooms (Hall, Parlor, Kitchen Buttery, Bedroom, and maybe a Solar). Most manor houses you see in RPGs tend to be laid out a bit too modern with multiple bedrooms, libraries, chimneys  and such. Something like... this:

 

Manor Test First Floor 1 yard scale(21x7).jpg

Edited by Atgxtg
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A strange question I've wondered: given the rapid cultural evolution during the GPC, should constant major construction projects dominate most urban areas in Arthur's realm throughout the campaign? Given the amount of time it took historically to construct great castles, fortifications, and cathedrals, it seems that Arthur's realm would be in perpetual construction/reconstruction as one style rapidly gave way to the next.

I know I'm over-thinking this, but it's an idea I've returned to again and again as I try to think through the implications to how Logres would actually function (I suspect I like my campaigns a bit more 'grounded' than many, and therefore tend to struggle with issues that others easily handwave....).

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5 minutes ago, Origen said:

A strange question I've wondered: given the rapid cultural evolution during the GPC, should constant major construction projects dominate most urban areas in Arthur's realm throughout the campaign? Given the amount of time it took historically to construct great castles, fortifications, and cathedrals, it seems that Arthur's realm would be in perpetual construction/reconstruction as one style rapidly gave way to the next.

Just because a certain construction style existed in the real Middle Ages, does not mean that the people living in KAP Britain would constantly demolish their buildings to build something in the 'current style'. Just look at how many Romanesque churches still exist! (And Pantheon was built/commissioned by Hadrian, a thousand years prior to the Gothic Cathedrals.)

While many castles would see upgrades to make them more defensible (mainly from wooden construction to stone), The White Tower is still a rectangular keep. It was never rebuilt, because there was no need to. Likewise, I wouldn't expect the expensive and still good enough square towers to get demolished to make room for round ones, but the newer castles might see a new style. Or old castles might get new baileys/walls added for more defense in depth.

But when it comes to churches, once the cathedral-craze starts, I would expect to see a lot of construction to build new cathedrals. The old churches would stay in use, and I would expect that most of the cathedrals would be built between Badon and the Yellow Pestilence. But like said, it would be the churchmen building churches rather than the commoners tearing their homes down.

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1 hour ago, Origen said:

A strange question I've wondered: given the rapid cultural evolution during the GPC, should constant major construction projects dominate most urban areas in Arthur's realm throughout the campaign? Given the amount of time it took historically to construct great castles, fortifications, and cathedrals, it seems that Arthur's realm would be in perpetual construction/reconstruction as one style rapidly gave way to the next.

Sort of/not really. What I mean by that is styles do chance and every advances at an accelerated rate in Pendragon, so sort of. On the other hand, it would take a lot of time and resources to build or rebuild a castle, fort, or cathedral, and little incentive to do so with a function design other than to keep up with the latest styles, so probably not.

 

What I expect happens in that different areas probably upgrade in fits and spurts depending upon the situation and economics. If a lord does well in battle, harvest or whatever, he might put some of his extra income to updating buildings and fortifications. When a lord has to rebuild stuff that got damaged in siege or raid, he probably replaces it with newer stronger designs. 

 

So the land is probably a Hodge Podge of styles and eras, being more uniform or either extremes of the income scale. THe ultra rich can afford the latest and greatest, while the poor have a hard enough time just maintaining what they already have. 

 

1 hour ago, Origen said:

I know I'm over-thinking this, but it's an idea I've returned to again and again as I try to think through the implications to how Logres would actually function (I suspect I like my campaigns a bit more 'grounded' than many, and therefore tend to struggle with issues that others easily handwave....).

I think everything sort of radiates out from Arthur. The closer you are to one of his favorite cities (Camelot, Caerlon, etc.) the richer and more advanced you'll tend to be. The further away you are, the more historically accurate you'll be - and this reaches out further than Logres. You can get a feel for this by looking at the gear knights have. While the overall tech advances, a knight in Norman mail riding a charger wouldn't be all that out of place in the 550s.

 

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