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Etyries cultist at an Issaries temple.


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I would like to start a new debate: do you think that an Etyries cultist can regain rune points at an Issaries temple?
My initial answer to that question was “Hell no!” because Etyries and Issaries obviously belong to pantheons that are on the opposite side of the Hero War. The travels of Biturian Varosh seem to indicate that Etyries and Issaries are dealing at least on a competitive mode.

But on the other hand, Etyries is still the Daughter of Issaries and shares the same magic, and plays much the same role for the Red Goddess as Issaries plays for Orlanth. That leads me to think that maybe Etyries is just a subcult of Issaries. Of course, the sharing of magic goes only as far as cult special rune magic and does not extend to associated cult rune magic.
Therefore, I would be tempted to allow an Etyries cultist regain rune points at an Issaries temple, if the local Issaries cultists allow it. But getting the permission, for an Etyries cultist to worship at an Issaries temple, should be a major challenge. There will certainly be opposition from the local Orlanthis who might be worshipping there as an associated cult to Issaries. I am sure that the local Issaries priests will be trying to squeeze a commercial advantage from allowing an Etyries to worship at their temple. To sum up, I would allow it, but it is not going to be easy, and it is a good opportunity for roleplaying.

What is your take on that question?

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The relationship between the pantheons is typically "Hostile" (i.e. prickly, based on past experience, can easily go downhill), not "Enemy" (attack on sight, give no quarter, never compromise). And Issaries cultists have every reason to play nice with Etyries cultists -- after all, the exchange of access is mutual. Where are they planning to recover their own Rune spells when they're in the Empire, eh?

Edited by Nick Brooke
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I’m not familiar with the named cult but it appears to be a hostile cult to Issaries? I would say that replenishment of Rune Points by that cult is not allowed going by RQG RAW p315-316.

In essence rune points can be replenished on a cult's holy days, or on the holy days of an associated cult. 

The holy days of a hostile cult would not qualify, and the sorts of ceremonies that allow replenishment would only be conducted on those days. 

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33 minutes ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

I’m not familiar with the named cult but it appears to be a hostile cult to Issaries?

Etyries is the Lunar goddess of Trade.  She's a daughter of Issaries.

All the trader-related cults (Issaries, Etyries, Lokarnos) manage to work out mutually beneficial arrangements for the transport and sale of goods, despite cultural hostilities.

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You could extend this I think to Irrippi Ontor and Lhankor Mhy, Buserian and Whoever-the-Carmanian-Knowledge-God-is.

Theoretially it should also be possible for Yanafal Tarnils and Humakt although the requirements each cult is likely to impose upon the other will probably be lethal hazing.

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5 hours ago, Arcadiagt5 said:

I’m not familiar with the named cult but it appears to be a hostile cult to Issaries? I would say that replenishment of Rune Points by that cult is not allowed going by RQG RAW p315-316.

If I'm reading the table p311 correctly, Seven Mothers (of which Etyries is part of) and Issaries are "Neutral" to each other.

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7 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

If I'm reading the table p311 correctly, Seven Mothers (of which Etyries is part of) and Issaries are "Neutral" to each other.

Etyries is an associate to the Seven Mothers, not one of them.

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17 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

If I'm reading the table p311 correctly, Seven Mothers (of which Etyries is part of) and Issaries are "Neutral" to each other.

Which is closer than Hostile but still not Associated for the purposes of Rune Point replenishment. 😀

9 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Etyries is an associate to the Seven Mothers, not one of them.

We really need to see Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha sooner rather than later. 😀

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FYI, Cults of Glorantha currently says under Etyries:

Quote

ASSOCIATED CULTS

ISSARIES

Etyries is often associated with her father’s cult in barbarian lands influenced by the Lunar Empire. The two cults often share a temple, and Etyries merchants often buy and sell their wares at Issaries markets. Issaries is the source of Etyries’ Path Watch spell but does not provide any additional magic.

 

Edited by David Scott
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51 minutes ago, metcalph said:

You could extend this I think to Irrippi Ontor and Lhankor Mhy, Buserian and Whoever-the-Carmanian-Knowledge-God-is.

For example, in the 1618-1622 ST books about Pavis, the Lankhor Mhy temple is shared with Irripi Ontor, isn't it?

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1 minute ago, Runeblogger said:

For example, in the 1618-1622 ST books about Pavis, the Lankhor Mhy temple is shared with Irripi Ontor, isn't it?

It's not clear whether they hold joint services and I imagine the situation is similar to a divorced couple living in the same house.

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I would say it depends

if lunars have power they probably order to create a shrine in any issaries temple, in this case yes, it is how I understand this rule :

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Etyries is often associated with her father’s cult in barbarian lands influenced by the Lunar Empire. The two cults often share a temple

 

in another hand, if you are in an hostile land, under the domination of lunar haters. I would say you will not find a shrine in issaries temple so you will not be able to (in my view you have to pray your god to replenish your pool, not pray the temple's owner)

 

and all the other situations may be possible,depending local agreements, opporunities, experiences.

 

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Etyries is sometimes treated as an associated cult, sometimes as a subculture of Issaries. She is acknowledged as Issaries' daughter. Note that the cult's famed neutrality tends to keep it neutral in conflicts between Sartar and the Lunar Empire.

PARTICULAR LIKES AND DISLIKES

The cult generally attempts to maintain a stance of neutrality between contending parties, preferring to profit from both if possible. They generally shun war. However, they are skilled at fighting, and once decided will keep to their way.

Many among the Goldentongue cult are especially adroit at neutrality, and for this are trusted by many otherwise untrusting peoples. They are also sought after by others because they believe that the presence of an Issaries priest will ease the transmission of any communication—especially magical ones such as rituals or spells. Some cults also hire Issaries to protect their sacred ceremonial grounds and offer great gifts for this service.

Like all Lightbringers they hate Chaos and dislike Darkness. While they can be neutral towards the races of Darkness, they cannot be neutral about Chaos. 

The cult has a particular dislike of hyenas, which are parts of the body of dead Genert and, if found alive, will cause a Middleman merchant to go on the trek to the desert unless a Desert Tracker can be persuaded to take upon the quest instead. Thus, the other brothers of Middleman will kill them on sight, if possible.

They have a friendly rivalry with the Lhankor Mhy cult. Both cults have many desires in common, and therefore support each other. But whereas the Issaries cult collects items and knowledge to pass on to others, the Lhankor Mhy people keep it for themselves.

ETYRIES

There was also a daughter of Issaries, named Etyries. After a thousand years she grew tired of tending pots and counting stones and decided to travel a great distance to hear the words of a young goddess of the far north. She left her family and went to listen. The goddess was the Red Goddess, still on earth and in mortal form. The daughter of Issaries learned that she could use her great innate powers and still enjoy other pursuits. The Red Goddess taught Etyries that she was the guide upon the threads of the Lunar pantheon.

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18 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

It's what they do.

People seem to forget that Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, and Chalana Arroy largely try to stay out of the fight between Orlanth and the Red Goddess except when Chaos gets brought in or Orlanth uses the Lightbringer's Summons. 

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3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

People seem to forget that Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, and Chalana Arroy largely try to stay out of the fight between Orlanth and the Red Goddess except when Chaos gets brought in or Orlanth uses the Lightbringer's Summons. 

Eurmal, on the other hand, tries to exacerbate it.

Thus, Argrath.

It's poor old Flesh Man who suffers, as always...

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1 minute ago, Nick Brooke said:

Eurmal, on the other hand, tries to exacerbate it.

Thus, Argrath.

It's poor old Flesh Man who suffers, as always...

Similar dynamics can be seen within the Lunar Empire, where several of the Seven Mothers really don't care one way or another about the Orlanthi or about conquests in Dragon Pass or even about the Lunar Empire except in an abstract Obey the Red Emperor level. 

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1 minute ago, Jeff said:

Similar dynamics can be seen within the Lunar Empire, where several of the Seven Mothers really don't care one way or another about the Orlanthi or about conquests in Dragon Pass or even about the Lunar Empire except in an abstract Obey the Red Emperor level. 

Ahem. The distinctive trait shared by all Seven of the Mothers is that they are willing to form illegal criminal conspiracies, defying unrighteous imperial authority, and make alliances with strange new forces in order to tear down an Evil Empire and replace it with something better.

They are Argrath's natural allies. And some idiots still don't get that.

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Just now, Nick Brooke said:

Ahem. The distinctive trait shared by all Seven of the Mothers is that they are willing to form illegal criminal conspiracies, defying unrighteous imperial authority, and make alliances with strange new forces in order to tear down an Evil Empire and replace it with something better.

They are Argrath's natural allies. And some idiots still don't get that.

If people assume that the alliances in the Hero Wars are straight-forward and easy, that is their problem.

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1 hour ago, Jeff said:

People seem to forget that Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, and Chalana Arroy largely try to stay out of the fight between Orlanth and the Red Goddess except when Chaos gets brought in or Orlanth uses the Lightbringer's Summons. 

I didn't forget, i never know it ^^ (except for Chalana) so thanks for that.Does that mean there is no restriction for these cults in lunar empire & dominions (like more tax for Issaries or no priority for Lhankor Mhy) I saw this kind of issues in previous material a century ago.(don't know if it is canonical now or at this time or not)

 

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6 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I didn't forget, i never know it ^^ (except for Chalana) so thanks for that.Does that mean there is no restriction for these cults in lunar empire & dominions (like more tax for Issaries or no priority for Lhankor Mhy) I saw this kind of issues in previous material a century ago.(don't know if it is canonical now or at this time or not)

Again, on the "nothing is ever as straightforward and simple as it should be" principle, of course these relatively benign religions are frequently persecuted unfairly as being Rebellus Terminus sympathisers at heart. If your scenario needs them to be, and not if it needs them not to be.

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2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Similar dynamics can be seen within the Lunar Empire, where several of the Seven Mothers really don't care one way or another about the Orlanthi or about conquests in Dragon Pass or even about the Lunar Empire except in an abstract Obey the Red Emperor level. 

Which ones? Just curious.

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