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Transhumanist System (looking for feedback and ideas)


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It's a long post.. so I made 2 visible parts...
the intro explains where I am coming from
the lists is the part that needs commenting! :)

Intro

For my Master of Orion game I am trying to come up with some transhumanist augments at the moment. And yes I did check out River of Heaven and New Horizon. Oh and also Sabre SciFi edition.

I made a much reduced list (compared to those games) because I am not really that interested in cyber/bio/nanoaugment, or cyberpunk genre... but yet, it still is the future and I want to make people better through technology! :) 
(plus hey, an alien / scifi character marooned on a fantasy planet, with all its devices broken will still keep a technological advantage that way :), might do that one day)
And while I am happy with a small number of mild enhancement, I want to give enough choice that all player character can be potentially different!

My main authoritative source of inspiration are the Orion techs:
http://www.moo3.at/moo2/technologies.php
(I show both MoO research cost and my personal level rating from 5 to 21)

Of interest Neural Scanner at "level 400" (aka level 9) (the research point first column)(machine that read mind), Telepathic Training at 900 (aka level 11), Cybersecurity Link at 1500 (aka level 13) (mind-machine interface), Psionic and Super Intelligence at 2750 (aka level 15), Virtual Reality Network at 4500 (level 17) (full sensual immersion), Evolutionary Mutation at 7500 (level 19) (gain a new trait for your race, might let the player chose if I play at that level, but canonically it's one choice for the whole empire)

For the record the player's tech level will be 1500 / 13

The Lists

Many augments will have an MP cost, permanently reducing base MP. Hey it's tiresome to have alien device / go beyond normal ability and that reduce life force permanently. They also have an operation cost (in credit) but it's not mentioned here. Those are the limiting factors. And also being in a civ with a high enough tech level.

Starting character will start with like.. maybe 4 augment point? Or tech level -9. The rest they will have to pay.

I hope my note / abbreviation make sense, it's straight from my scratch pad and.. it's time for bed...

    Nanotech
        Cortical Assist (+10/15/20/25 INT skills%)(2 MP) (lvl: 12/15/18/21)
        Nervous Assist (+2/4/6/8 DEX SR)(2/3/4/5 MP) (lvl: 8/12/16/20)
        Cyberlink (1MP) (lvl 13) (&shared sensory information, 1 machine at a time and lose awareness : -60% perception)
            Cyberlink (1+2MP/extra body) (lvl 17) shared consciousness (limit the number of drones that can be operated at once)
        Immune Nanites (+3/6/9/12 vs all poison/sickness, double vs nanites) (use 3MP) (lvl 7/11/15/19)
        Health Nanites .....
        DrugGland (1) (L9)
            - adrenaline, fasttime
        Prosthesis (cost HP but give HP back that need repair skill to heal, MP, increase STR, natural weapon..) (Lvl9+)
            - arm:
            - leg:
            - skin: (natural armor)
    Biotech
        Biobattery (L9,13,17,21)(cost 1MP)(provide storage for 3,4,5,6 MP, that do not regenerate)
        Fashion Hair, Eyes, Skin (0MP, Lvl 9)(+2AP each, +20% disguise)
        Enhance STR/DEX/CON Augment: each augment +2 cost 1MP, tech level 6+, max augment is tech level-4
        CatEyes (thermal vision) (cost 0)(level 6)
        Eagles Eye (reduce range penalty bies 1 rank) (cost 0)(level 6)
        Gracefull (+10/15/20/25 DEX skills%)(2 MP) (lvl: 8/12/16/20)
        
    Cultural Bonus
    Level 11: 20% to learn 1 PSI power, cost only money & time. can try multiple time, but limited to 1 (random) power
    Level 15: Can pay for 1 Mental Enhancement (once), either +6INT or +6POW and unlock psionic/meditation
    Level 19: Can pay for 1 enhancement once: Psionic, HighGravity, Creative, 3 Luck (i.e. 3 advantage roll per session), +6CON/STR/DX/INT

 

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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I really think what you want is "bionic" or "cyber augments," not "transhuman" elements.

The core difference, IMHO, is that "cyber augments" bring tools/gear into the character, in an "always-available" state:  you don't need to put on night-vision goggles, or take them off again for normal light, or put on solar-flare visors, etc:  your cyber-eyes will adjust the whole gamut from dimmer than any human can see, to brighter.  But, fundamentally, it's the same tools an un-Augment'ed character could have, just built-in.

The thing that separates "cyber" from "trans" is that with transhumanism, it affects more than just convenience; it begins to become something else/more, something people have never been before.

Instead of cybereyes, what if a transhuman were the central node of a surveillance swarm of nanites and drones?  What if they had (the'd certainly NEED!) additional processing-power (bio, cyber, both, something else/new) so that they could actually handle 100+ different points of view, at different scales, simultaneously?  They see what's on the other side of that building, what's below the underhang, what's behind them, etc etc etc.  Not even with the best tools can a human "see" this -- we can switch rapidly between different POV's, we can build up a mental "map" of a volume of space; but slowly, s-l-o-w-l-y:  switching from one POV to the next, making sure we correlate feed A-3/uv with feed C-17/ir and their differing coverages and the different KINDS of info each provides.  The transhuman does it all at once.  They take it in at a glance, literally, because that IS their "glance."  It becomes almost a "godlike" POV (granted, a little, local god ...  maybe a million cubic meters (100x100x100) ?)   And it's only (all-knowing,) not all-powerful.  But you know what they say -- knowledge is power.

I'm not clear what kind of perspective a perspective (like I hypothesize above, for the "godlike" POV).  But I'm pretty sure it would transcend (there's that "trans" again) most human POV's...

I don't think you want "transhumanism;" by definition it's going beyond what makes us all human beings.  Most human-scale concerns and human-scale conflicts are no longer concerns, no longer a matter to engage in a conflict.  Most player-characters no longer have the kind of "special ops" / heroic personal agency that players want.

= = =

There's a scene in Charles Stross' first(?) novel, Singularity Sky...  One of the colony-worlds belonging to an imperial/expansionist culture has encountered a transhuman probe.  The probe is interacting with the colony, and wreaking havoc without ever taking military action.  The i/e capitol world launches a military counterstrike.  En route, they accidentally commit some war-atrocities (target civilians thinking they were hostiles); the tech of that polity is way ahead of the i/e one, so their warships are forming up to deliver a spanking of devastating power.

Then (and this is the scene I first mentioned; everything from then 'til now has been scene-setting) the commanders of the advanced polity realize the i/e battle-fleet is actually going after the transhuman probe... so they laugh hysterically, and go home. They don't know precisely what will happen to the battle fleet, but they assume it will be terrible, and humiliating, and will have somewhere between zero effect and a slight positive for the transhumans.

And they are right.

Edited by g33k
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Well... One one hand you are right that I am indeed not looking for too big a change...

However, and to be nit-picking, I have one very strong totally transhumanist element on my list I believe: The level 2 cyberlink

Cyberlink (1+2MP/extra body) (lvl 17) shared consciousness

And also the level 19 mutation which turn the character into a psionist or lucky.. or greatly enhanced in some way...

And while at no time the character becomes god like or even wizard like (though psionic power is pretty cool).. I would argue having multiple bodies is pretty rad and totally transhuman as you defined it!

 

Not too mention that by now they have android that could be partly organic...

And also, I need to add somewhere brain in a jar.. and upgrade jar to mechanical / android / organic body...
with maybe some perception and STR/DEX skill malus.. initially (at "low" tech level)

 

Anyway I was nit-picking... not trying to turn the characters into some kind of super entities in anyway.. Well except for the multiple body thing, but this is kind of a given once mind-machine interface is here...
Plus it's tech level 17+ so it's for the NPC :P 
Also I am still wondering whether I should make that an ordinary level 17+ tech (or 21+?) or an exclusive/unsearchable tech (exclusive to the Antarian, that is), much like the Death Ray...

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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An idea I have.. but I am afraid it might turn uselessly complicated...

Is to give cybertech "Mechanical HP" (they both reduce normal HP and add mechanical HP).

This mechanical HP would susceptible to electromagnetic gun (which bypass armor, incidently) and would not heal, but need repairs.
What I am not too sure of is how to handle partial mechanical HP loss....
But total loss would disable all cyberthingy.....

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You can also look into the Cybernetics rules of the M-SPACE Companion. They are pretty much complete and come with three different power levels suitable for all kinds of campaigns. It also has options to combine Psionics with Cybernetics.

Edited by Prinz Slasar
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You know what? 
I have it too! ^_^ And succinctly read it a few month back when I was looking for idea for the first time...

(then I kind of did nothing for a while... back to it now :) )  
It's not quite I have in mind... But it has some malfunction rule I see now... cool!

Oh, and yes, I forgot the psionic cybertech! good point! Should be available somehow, me think...

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Alright I got a MoO inspired idea that allow for diverse yet expedient customisation.

Depending on the tech level of the clinic there is a number of augmentation slot available. Each augmentation take 1 slot. Some augmentation (++) can be taken multiple times. Each augmentation is related to a tech on the tech tree (TBD) (for installation and repair) (level in parenthesis)

    Tech Level: # slots
        8 : 2
        12: 3
        16: 4
        20: 5

    Nanotech
        12: Cortical Assist +20% INT skill
        8 : Nervous Assist ++ +3 in DEX SR
        13: Cyberlink 
        18: Enhanced Cyberlink ++ (multiple body) (extended consciousness)
        8 : Immune Nanite ++ (+6 in CON saves vs poison, sickness, disease)
        8 : Health Nanite ++ (+4 in HP)
        8 : Drug Gland ++ 
        13: Psionic Chip ++ (1 power)
        
    Biotech
        11: Biobattery ++ +5MP reserve
        8 : Fashion Hair/Skin/Eyes 
        10: Enhanced STR ++ +4STR
        10: Enhanced CON ++ +4CON
        10: Enhanced DEX ++ +4DEX
        10: Graceful +20% DEX skills
        11: Psionic Power & Meditation unlocked
        8 : Eagle Eyes (reduce range penalty by 1)
        8 : Cat Eyes (dark light vision)
        15: Super Intelligence (INT+6)
        15: Psionic Power unlocked
        17: Superior Mind (POW+6)

    Prothesis: TODO.. something like cost HP & MP (permanent) (no slots) but give bonus... 
ex:
    Duraskin: -2HP, -2MP, AP 5 (bonus depends on tech)
    DuraLimb: -3HP, -3MP, +5(mechanical)HP, +2STR (bonus depends on tech)
        
      
    Cultural Bonuses (no slots)
        19: Can pay for 1 enhancement once: Psionic, HighGravity, Creative, 3 Luck (i.e. 3 advantage roll per session), +6CON/STR/DX/INT
        
On Serious Wound (using general HP rule) each Nanotech & Prothesis roll on the table (inspired by M-Space companion here ^_^
    Target D10 Effect   
    Cyber 1-4 No effect
    Cyber 5-7 Disable D6 rounds
    Cyber 8-9 Disabled D6 minutes
    Cyber 0   Augment disabled
    Prosth 1-4 No effect
    Prosth 5-6 Disable D6 rounds
    Prosth 7-8 Disabled D6 minutes
    Prosth 9-0   Augment disabled

 

Maybe also... once chose biotech can't be changed.. And should move some more to Cyberware

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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Just tossing out an idea, but what if you  rolled this into chargen by letting the player go "body shopping"? Give them X amount of "currency" to spend and let them buy everything, including STR, CON, SIZ, Etc, like they would in a point buy system.

You could downplay the ultra-tech aspects of it by making it seem mundane to the people in game. The idea would be that everybody is augmented in various ways, but it's so commonplace that people just look at it the what they look at fashion accessories today. 

"Ohh, Nice eyes. Where did you get them? I'd like to buy a new pair but I haven't seen then in the right shade of blue until now."

 

Most of the options above could be rolled right into the basic stats, simplifying game play, with the rest duplicated through the super power system, but with caps set by the tech level.

If you like that approach you could have EMP attack affect the victims DEX and then INT to reflect that everybody has had some sort of upgrade. 

 

Again, just tossing out an idea. It's just that such enhancements are supposed to seem "normal" in futuristic settings, but are usually played off as exotic to impress modern day audiences and players. Here the approach would be that BODYTEC would be so common that most people would have no more idea as to what TEC is inside them than they would about what brand of RAM is inside their Smartphone. Tech Geeks would probably custom build and get the latest components, while most people would get something off the rack at Best Buy or Amazon. If you wanted to get really out there you could even have hot-swappable brain enclosures.

 

 

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Atgxtg I was kind of trying to do something like that :)

But this had 2 problems:
- character creation was becoming tedious (I simplified character creation as much as possible while still being a BRP like game)
- cross referencing it with a tech level table is difficult. Making it somehow match MoO table, even more so.

I quite like my latest iteration just before your post (only 2~3 thing to chose) and each clearly impactful!

At any rate I give +4 ability at character creation already! :P 
Though perhaps I should give a bonus based on tech level... (not that relevant since it won't change, but saying it highlight the benefit of high tech! ^_^)

 

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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2 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Atgxtg I was kind of trying to do something like that :)

But this had 2 problems:
- character creation was becoming tedious (I simplified character creation as much as possible while still being a BRP like game)
- cross referencing it with a tech level table is difficult. Making it somehow match MoO table, even more so.

I think the simplest approach would be to scap rolling attriubtes and just point buy everything. THen you just give the players a sheet with all the options listed.

Heck you could even have a couple fo different Models, each with a list of what comes "Standard" and what optional extra are avialabe. Player could even have to get credit and make payments on their new bodies. 

 

2 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I quite like my latest iteration just before your post (only 2~3 thing to chose) and each clearly impactful!

No problem. I'm just tossing out ideas.

2 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

At any rate I give +4 ability at character creation already! :P 

No problem. Just to make sure I was clear., I was think of modifications not as stat enhacements to rolled stats, but as a alternative to rolled stats. So if someone want's an 18 CON it's not problem, provides they have 180,000 credits or whatever. 

2 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:


Though perhaps I should give a bonus based on tech level... (not that relevant since it won't change, but saying it highlight the benefit of high tech! ^_^)
 

Either a bonus or a cap, depending on how you work attributes. You might even have different limits depending on where the modification is done, or by how much money someone has to spend. Like how today most cars don't go at 200 MPH but such cars are available to those with deep pockets.

 

It the costs increased in some non-linear progression you could have softer caps. Perhaps DEX 30 (or +20 DEX) is possible for a culture but the cost is prohibitive. 

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You gave me an idea.. I might also have, on top of the ideas above, have credits buying of attribute point...


The total improvement might be limited to something like (tech level - 8 )x2, i.e. +10 for the players, and cost increasingly more...
DEX/CON/STR cost 1 point for point, INT cost 3 point and POW 2.. something like that?

Although this make me want to remove the characteristic increase slots above, and then this will be in opposition to MoO tech: "Evolutionary Genetics: Heightened Intelligence", which was my INT+6 for a level 15 slot..

mmmm.....

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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8 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I think the simplest approach would be to scap rolling attriubtes and just point buy everything. THen you just give the players a sheet with all the options listed.

It's tricky here.. the different playable alien races have different dice numbers.. so, arguably some are better, but I usually give an ability to other races, so, hopefully, it's a toss up!
Anyway attribute are not that game changing except for the sweet high initiative power of DEX ^_^

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Atgxtg, you inspire to consider those changes.. will see after a few nights sleep

    Biotech (once acquired, can't be changed) (removed the attribute change)
        8 : Fashion Hair/Skin/Eyes (+4AP, +20% disguise)
        8 : Eagle Eyes (reduce range penalty by 1)
        8 : Cat Eyes (dark light vision)
        10: Graceful +20% DEX skills
        12: Regeneration (heal 1 step faster, grow back limb if hacked)
        15: Psionic Power & Meditation unlocked
        
    Biohacking (cost money) (well the other thing cost money too hey!)(bonus can be moved around multiple time)
        (Tech - 8 ) x2 points to spend on Attributes (no slots)
        8  : 1 point  => +1 STR/CON, 2 points => +1DEX
        15: 3 points => +1 INT
        17: 2 points => +1 POW
 

The rest of it

    Tech Level: # slots
        8 : 2
        11: 3
        14: 4
        17: 5
        20: 6

    Nanotech
        8 : Immune Nanite ++ (+6 in CON saves vs poison, sickness, disease, RAD)
        8 : Health Nanite ++ (+5 in HP)
        8 : Drug Gland ++ 
        11: Biobattery ++ +5MP reserve
        12: Cortical Assist +20% INT skill
        12: Relentless (succeed Endurance roll for staying conscious, +6vs Stuns, can stand up when between 0 and -10 for up to 10 rounds)
        13: Cyberlink 
        13: Psionic Chip ++ (1 power)
        13: Biorecorder (hours of full sensory data or just raw data)
        15: Awareness Mod ++ (+1 perception roll when needed)
        18: Enhanced Cyberlink ++ (extended consciousness, multiple body)
        
    Cultural Bonuses
        19: Can pay for 1 enhancement once: Psionic, HighGravity, Creative, 3 Luck (i.e. 3 advantage roll per session)
 

Prothesis: .. still thinking ...

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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7 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

You gave me an idea..

Well, that was the plan. Just brainstorming stuff.

7 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I might also have, on top of the ideas above, have credits buying of attribute point...


The total improvement might be limited to something like (tech level - 8 )x2, i.e. +10 for the players, and cost increasingly more...
DEX/CON/STR cost 1 point for point, INT cost 3 point and POW 2.. something like that?

Yeah, although I'd have to think about POW. Just what are they doing to improve it, if they can? With STR, DEX, CON and INT I can imagine some sort of synthetic upgrade, but POW seems to be psychological and/or spiritual in nature. 

I'd also be worried about a straight linear cost for attributes, as one 18  is often better than four 12's.

You might want the cap to apply to all improvements. The idea being that the only got so much space to work with. Like if you put a $5000 sound system in your car, you don't have any truck space. I could synthetic muscles taking up space needed to run superconductive nerve wires, and so on.   And maybe some place makes multi-function upgrades (i.e. conductive muscles), but they are exponentially more expensive, and require ripping out the old hardware.  

 

One thing you might do is assume that the better off someone is the harder they are to improve upon, and just give a upper limit to their attribute total. For instance, TECH LVL x10 or some such. So TECH LEVEL  13 could upgrade someone until the sum of their stats totaled 130, but no more. So a PC with high stats would need to go to a very advanced planet to get an attribute increase. This would make the math a lot simpler, as you wouldn't need to keep track the original stats and how much they've been upgraded already.

 

7 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Although this make me want to remove the characteristic increase slots above, and then this will be in opposition to MoO tech: "Evolutionary Genetics: Heightened Intelligence", which was my INT+6 for a level 15 slot..

mmmm.....

Yeah. I think Improvement slots seems to "game-like" and some sort of formulaic TECH limit with economic factors would be better. I'd probably say that "Heightened Intelligence" might be reserved for those who's INT in above their species max. I mean, a dumb human with  with a INT 8 who gets a +6 INT improvement is only going to seem normal, maybe a little more, but certainly not noticeably brighter than most. 

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23 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Some good ideas there.. But I need to think a bit more how to formalise them.... :) 

I just throwing stuff out there. You can tell me what sticks. 

One of the nice things about doing your own game/setting is that you are free to do practically anything. You are free to run with whatever you can come up with. Once you get the stetting locked down, you're get fenced into a particular sandbox. So it definitely worth thinking carefully about what sandbox you want to end up in. Traveller is a good example of what I mean. The original game had to setting and could be used for just about any SF setting, possible with a few minor tweaks. But as the game developed it established it's own unique setting, which has been the basis for most of the later editions. 

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Atgxtg... I got an idea... which seems complicated to explain but involve only very simple math (me think) and scale with racial difference...
Have a look!

This is about improving health / well being / attributes!

I give Tech Lech Level - 5 improvement point potential, i.e. 8 point for the planned campaign's character

With this they can spend improvement points (and credits and time) at a clinic to improve one attribute to the next grade

Attribute Current Grade | cost to next
0-3 | 1
4    | 2
5    | 3
6    | 4
7    | 5   (i.e. up to grade 8 )

how grade is related to attribute is the grade is the D6 value, here are some examples:

Grade | 2D6+6 | 3D6 | 3D6+6 | 4D6 | 4D6+6
1          | 8          | 3      | 9          | 4      | 10
2          | 10        | 6      | 12        | 8      | 14
3          | 12        | 9      | 15        | 12    | 18
4          | 14        | 12    | 18        | 16     | 22
5          | 16        | 15    | 21         | 20    | 26
6          | 18        | 18    | 24        | 24    | 30
7          | 20        | 21    | 27        | 28    | 34
8          | 22        | 24   | 30        | 32    | 38

so, for example, an human with a STR of 12 to 14 should spend 2 point to get to 15, and then 3 more (up to 5 total) to get to 18

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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Or a simplified solution, with (tech level  - 5 ) x2 point
if attribute < racial average: 1 improvement point = 2 attribute points 
if attribute < (racial average + racial max)/2:  1 improvement point = 1 attribute point 
if attribute < racial max:  2 improvement points = 1 attribute point 
else:  3 improvement points = 1 attribute point 

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13 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Or a simplified solution, with (tech level  - 5 ) x2 point
if attribute < racial average: 1 improvement point = 2 attribute points 
if attribute < (racial average + racial max)/2:  1 improvement point = 1 attribute point 
if attribute < racial max:  2 improvement points = 1 attribute point 
else:  3 improvement points = 1 attribute point 

I think I like that better. It's easier to implement and understand. My biggest concerns are that not all attributes are equal and 1 or 2 points of STR or DEX might not make much of a difference, but that depends on what version of the rules you go with. 

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30 minutes ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Yeah I thought I should tweak it to make INT and DEX more expensive...

I think that depends on how useful those stats end up being in your ruleset. In generic BRP there isn't much difference between INT 13 and INT 15. In BRP with category modifiers, there might be a bit more of a difference. But it's hard to evaluate them out of context. 

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INT is initiative for powers (psi power in that case) and limit the number of tech known. Also if the character drop on a fantasy planet... they could be awesome spell caster!

DEX is combat initiative

STR is bonus damage ... every 16 points! 😮 

CON is HP

also planning to have each characteristic being used for experience roll, depending on the skills, instead of the blanket INT-10 bonus.

Overall attribute are not that much influential except INT/DEX for initiative.. (and known tech limit).

I plan to add a D6 to initiative to add some randomness....

Oh yeah, occasionally they are used on the resistance table.. mostly CON, DEX, POW I think...

Maybe APP/INT are occasionally "HP-like pool" for social conflict, though I am not entirely too convinced I shall use them...

Edited by Lloyd Dupont
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3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

INT is initiative for powers (psi power in that case) and limit the number of tech known. Also if the character drop on a fantasy planet... they could be awesome spell caster!

That would seem to make INT value only to those with PSI powers. Now if everybody has some level of PSI in your setting INT has a lot of value, but if it is rare, then INT seems mediocre. 

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

DEX is combat initiative

Somewhat useful, but still not twice the value of other stats. In game terms, it doesn't ususally matter how fast you are, only that you are faster than the opponent(s). SO if the average person has a DEX of 10-111 something like a 12 DEX will be as good as an 18.

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

STR is bonus damage ... every 16 points! 😮 

Assuming you are using the BRP damage table, the +1d4 at STR+SIZ 25 is the real value here. 

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

CON is HP

Probably the most universal and consist of the stats, since more CON points  equals more HP. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

also planning to have each characteristic being used for experience roll, depending on the skills, instead of the blanket INT-10 bonus.

That is a biggie, since it has a long term, cumulative effect. 

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Overall attribute are not that much influential except INT/DEX for initiative.. (and known tech limit).

The thing is not every stat will impact every character equally, not every point of stat. For instance 2 points of STR mean a lot more to someone whose STR_+SIZ is on the cusp of the next damage bonus.

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

I plan to add a D6 to initiative to add some randomness....

That will certainly make a difference, and will probably reduce the value of DEX unless at the extremes. For instance if the average DEX is 10, a PC has more incentive to bump a 15 DEX to a 16, than to bump a 14 to a 15. On the plus side this means you could fine tune the importance of DEX by adjusting the die size. The bigger the die the less important DEX will be and vice versa.

BTW, if you wanted to include things like combat experience/coolness under fire, you could have characters initiative die increase as they get more experienced. I'm just mentioning that to bring it to your attention, not to endorse such an idea. 

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Oh yeah, occasionally they are used on the resistance table.. mostly CON, DEX, POW I think...

STR could be useful to lift stuff, obviously. Oh, and you could use INT to help figure out tech by pitting it against the tech level.

What is POW used for, PSI points.

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Maybe APP/INT are occasionally "HP-like pool" for social conflict, though I am not entirely too convinced I shall use them...

What if you treated them more like hero points that could be spent to bump the results of social contests (and possible science/tech type contests)? For instance a character with a 15 APP could have 15 points to spend when making social rolls during a game session. These could either be spent one for one after the fact, or bump success levels or whatever.  The idea being that the pretty (APP 15) girl behind the wheel of an aircar, who gets pulled over for doing 1000 kph in a 700 KPH zone will have a better chance of talking her way out of a speeding ticket.

 

Again, just putting stuff out there for you to pick through -I've no sacred cows here.

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21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That will certainly make a difference, and will probably reduce the value of DEX unless at the extremes. For instance if the average DEX is 10, a PC has more incentive to bump a 15 DEX to a 16, than to bump a 14 to a 15. On the plus side this means you could fine tune the importance of DEX by adjusting the die size. The bigger the die the less important DEX will be and vice versa.

BTW, if you wanted to include things like combat experience/coolness under fire, you could have characters initiative die increase as they get more experienced. I'm just mentioning that to bring it to your attention, not to endorse such an idea. 

Good thoughts for thoughts! :) 

 

21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That would seem to make INT value only to those with PSI powers. Now if everybody has some level of PSI in your setting INT has a lot of value, but if it is rare, then INT seems mediocre. 

Yeah, INT that does limit spells seems not that useful... It's why I want it to limit Tech Knowns and use Tech known as a biggie for crafting / repairs to make it somewhat great again!

 

21 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What if you treated them more like hero points that could be spent to bump the results of social contests (and possible science/tech type contests)? For instance a character with a 15 APP could have 15 points to spend when making social rolls during a game session. These could either be spent one for one after the fact, or bump success levels or whatever.  The idea being that the pretty (APP 15) girl behind the wheel of an aircar, who gets pulled over for doing 1000 kph in a 700 KPH zone will have a better chance of talking her way out of a speeding ticket.

Interesting..... That's a bit much of an advantage though...

FYI I like social conflict (and conflict pool) in principle... But apart from a small "court case / apparition", where it worked well.... (each roll being an argument, with possible damage bonus depending on the argument) I had not much success with using it. Not that I couldn't roll the dices, use pool and reduce them, I had trouble narrate it well in a convincing and useful fashion, like HP in a fight for instance...

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24 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What is POW used for, PSI points.

mmm... from the top of my head, indeed I can only think of psionic power....

mm... and it's also the leading score in the perception skill, i.e. used for experience rolls

in the settings, and empire, only one common and playable race has full access to psionic (the Elerians).
However, nicely and purposely, I chose level 13 as the campaign tech level because it make accessible Psionic to non psionic (I opted for a psionic chip that give 1 power for each chip)

For the record I plan to have some mindflayer/illithid.. not as scary bugabo, but as servant / minor race that could find its way as military helper, like a sort of sentient guard dog  would be...

Elerians psionicly blow the mind of Mindflayers of course! That will teach them! :P 😅

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