Newtlings - Breathe Water?

[Mechashef]

1) Can Bachelor Newtlings breathe water?

 

2) If not, can they hold their breath longer than humans (similar to Ducks)?

 

The Bestiary doesn't mention it, so I presume the answer is "No" to both.

 

Thanks

[Bill the barbarian]

2 hours ago, Mechashef said:

1) Can Bachelor Newtlings breathe water?

 

Looked this up in what I thought would be a good source, RQ 2’s Borderlands and all it says is the the larval stage is entirly aquatic. Interestingly there is less on their medium of breathing in RQ G!  So if they resemble their blue green marble variation they might well be lunged as adults. See below.

Quote

noun a cold-blooded vertebrate animal of a class that comprises the frogs, toads, newts, salamanders, and caecilians. They are distinguished by having an aquatic gill-breathing larval stage followed (typically) by a terrestrial lung-breathing adult stage.

OED

 

Now while this does not answer the original question it does give us a place to start and I would assume an amphibian would be able to hold breath underwater longer than a mammal.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Akhôrahil]

Amphibians can usually achieve at least some breathing through their skins, so perhaps this would extend time underwater even if lungs are required for full breathing?

[Bill the barbarian]

Just now, Akhôrahil said:

Amphibians can usually achieve at least some breathing through their skins, so perhaps this would extend time underwater even if lungs are required for full breathing?

Thanks, forgot about that.

[10baseT]

Since they're amphibians and semi-aquatic, I would say they can definitely stay underwater longer than a mammal (not sure about the breathing part). And if you wanted to make it easy, say the same as ducks but i would even say longer than that. The real world newts here in California are under water for a long time... i see them when I go hiking. They're also poisonous. (I dont know if all are.)

Edited October 13, 2020 by 10baseT

[Lloyd Dupont]

This is all newts to me! 😮

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Lloyd Dupont

[Scorus]

I believe the Great Newt statue in the Rainbow Mounds had gills? But in my game they are strictly amphibian, so cannot breathe water once they hit Bachelor.

[ffilz]

2 hours ago, Scorus said:

I believe the Great Newt statue in the Rainbow Mounds had gills? But in my game they are strictly amphibian, so cannot breathe water once they hit Bachelor.

Yes it does, it's described as a fish head. But I've never had the sense that newtlings had fish like heads. With the more setting knowledge since Apple Lane was first published, the statue is probably a representation of their river spirit rather than necessarily a depiction of a member of their "tribe".

I'm not sure what I've done for newtling underwater stamina in the past, but I'd be inclined to give them similar or better than ducks, though on the other hand, RQ1 gives newtlings only 80% swimming to ducks 90%, so maybe they shouldn't be as good.

[Brootse]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:03 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

Looked this up in what I thought would be a good source, RQ 2’s Borderlands and all it says is the the larval stage is entirly aquatic. Interestingly there is less on their medium of breathing in RQ G!  So if they resemble their blue green marble variation they might well be lunged as adults. See below.

OED

 

Now while this does not answer the original question it does give us a place to start and I would assume an amphibian would be able to hold breath underwater longer than a mammal.

Huh. I've always for reason thought that they could breath underwater.

 

On 10/13/2020 at 9:09 PM, ffilz said:

Yes it does, it's described as a fish head. But I've never had the sense that newtlings had fish like heads. With the more setting knowledge since Apple Lane was first published, the statue is probably a representation of their river spirit rather than necessarily a depiction of a member of their "tribe".

I'm not sure what I've done for newtling underwater stamina in the past, but I'd be inclined to give them similar or better than ducks, though on the other hand, RQ1 gives newtlings only 80% swimming to ducks 90%, so maybe they shouldn't be as good.

Good point.

[Mechashef]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 5:09 AM, ffilz said:

I'm not sure what I've done for newtling underwater stamina in the past, but I'd be inclined to give them similar or better than ducks, though on the other hand, RQ1 gives newtlings only 80% swimming to ducks 90%, so maybe they shouldn't be as good.

However in RQG:

Ducks and newtlings both have Swim at 80%

Ducks have the Air Rune as their primary elemental affinity (60% for a typical NPC)

Typical NPC newtlings have the Water Rune at 80%

Ducks swim faster

 

Perhaps because it hasn't been mentioned (though I don't have access to every official scenario and source book) in any products using newtlings, then they do not have a superior ability in this area and though they swim much faster than humans probably can't hold their breaths significantly longer.  It does seem something that a scenario involving netwlings and water would exploit, if such an advantage existed. 

 

[ffilz]

Hmm, here's another thought on newtling swimming from Apple Lane: "Underground streams, usable only by newtlings, lead to
cave sections 7,11, and 20."

The section on Underwater Combat in Borderlands grants ducks and newtlings the same abilities of no penalties under water or out of water.

The Borderlands description of Ducks includes being able to hold their breath for 6 minutes.

I'm inclined to treat ducks and newtlings the same for all underwater considerations.

[Brootse]

15 minutes ago, ffilz said:

Hmm, here's another thought on newtling swimming from Apple Lane: "Underground streams, usable only by newtlings, lead to
cave sections 7,11, and 20."

The section on Underwater Combat in Borderlands grants ducks and newtlings the same abilities of no penalties under water or out of water.

The Borderlands description of Ducks includes being able to hold their breath for 6 minutes.

I'm inclined to treat ducks and newtlings the same for all underwater considerations.

Yeah, sounds about right.

[Mechashef]

45 minutes ago, ffilz said:

Hmm, here's another thought on newtling swimming from Apple Lane: "Underground streams, usable only by newtlings, lead to
cave sections 7,11, and 20."

The section on Underwater Combat in Borderlands grants ducks and newtlings the same abilities of no penalties under water or out of water.

The Borderlands description of Ducks includes being able to hold their breath for 6 minutes.

I'm inclined to treat ducks and newtlings the same for all underwater considerations.

I would agree with that.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, ffilz said:

The section on Underwater Combat in Borderlands grants ducks and newtlings the same abilities of no penalties under water or out of water.

Good find from Bill and you! It also mentions that the Newtlings' trident is meant for use both on dry land and underwater.

Later, in the additional rules (including the rules for underwater fighting), it says:

Amphibians such as newtlings, or beings long adapted to underwater experience such as ducks or seals will fight equally well in air or water.

Later again, in the scenario, when talking about ambush tactics:

Newtlings are capable of sinking into the quicksand and leaving just their eyes out to watch (.... in order to ambush people)

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by lordabdul

[Mechashef]

40 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Good find from Bill and you! It also mentions that the Newtlings' trident is meant for use both on dry land and underwater.

Later, in the additional rules (including the rules for underwater fighting), it says:

Amphibians such as newtlings, or beings long adapted to underwater experience such as ducks or seals will fight equally well in air or water.

Later again, in the scenario, when talking about ambush tactics:

Newtlings are capable of sinking into the quicksand and leaving just their eyes out to watch (.... in order to ambush people)

 

Great find.  Thanks.

My first thought was that newtlings must be able to breathe water (and even quicksand!) to make such an ambush tactic practical.

However a quick look at the bestiary rules on ducks holding their breath indicates that they can hold their breath for 6 minutes (* See below) and then need to make a CON X 5 roll to get another full turn (5 minutes) and can keep on doing this.

That does make the tactic possible though with a risk of failure if the victims are tardy in reaching the ambush point.

Interestingly the CON multiplier doesn't go down.  Humakt has Vigor as a cult spell.  PC Humakt ducks with a high CON (16 or more which become 19 or more) can with a bit of luck travel long distances under water.  Even 5 rolls of 95 or less allows a fully armoured Humakt duck to walk underwater for more than half an hour.  

Perhaps Humakt ducks are awesome at fishing.  They kit up with their armour, weapons and vigor spell, sink to the bottom and go after the really big fish.

 

* It does seem a bit odd that they can hold their breath for 6 minutes instead of the 5 that makes up a full turn,.

 

[Bill the barbarian]

Just a little bit of team work... and a good question to start et voila another good topic.

[Mechashef]

Though now I do wonder if Newtlings and Ducks can cast spells underwater (I'd guess so) and how many they can cast before they run out of air.

[Bill the barbarian]

6 minutes ago, Mechashef said:

Though now I do wonder if Newtlings and Ducks can cast spells underwater (I'd guess so) and how many they can cast before they run out of air.

Well this I can help you with. If the newtling should weigh as much as a duck (I wonder was it turned into a newtling), it would then be able to float, now if it floats that means it’s like....anyone? Yes, you in the back! It’s like wood yes that’s right and what do we do with wood?

BURN IT...

RIght, it's a witch and we all know witches can cast spells underwater.

QED

[Lloyd Dupont]

We should write such wisdom in a scroll hidden in a coconut, for future generations to behold in wonder!  

[Scorus]

Their initiates+ are likely to have Breathe Air/Water, whether they worship Engizi, the Great Newt, or a local spirit.

[Bill the barbarian]

8 minutes ago, Scorus said:

Their initiates+ are likely to have Breathe Air/Water, whether they worship Engizi, the Great Newt, or a local spirit.

So I do not givie anything away I will use  white text for my SPOILER about the Feroda Adventure

SPOILER begins next line.

I believe that River Friends (sacred Railroaded River Guardians, so this is a special,  are granted magic gifts for aiding the Zola Fel) I recall breathing water was there as a spell or special granted by the Zola Fel cult.

Cheers

 

[g33k]

20 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

So I do not givie anything away I will use  white text for my SPOILER about the Feroda Adventure

SPOILER begins next line.

I believe that River Friends (sacred Railroaded River Guardians, so this is a special,  are granted magic gifts for aiding the Zola Fel) I recall breathing water was there as a spell or special granted by the Zola Fel cult.

Cheers

 

Engizi is the archetypal River cult, I believe.  He gives Breathe Air/Water, as I recall; I think most River deities do so.

[Bill the barbarian]

Just now, g33k said:

Engizi is the archetypal River cult, I believe.  He gives Breathe Air/Water, as I recall; I think most River deities do so.

Thanks