Mounted combat

[Blindhamster]

Technically a simple one (in theory)

I assume the mount is treated as a distinct entity to the rider in strike ranks. It kind of seems to imply it with the mounted combat rules and the way their movement works, but anyone fancy trying to spell out the mounted rules?

My current understanding:
- the mount has it's own movement rating (usually 12), so it can move 36 meters at a run, per round.

- unlike when on foot, the rider can still attack (with a weapon of appropriate length) whilst the horse moves at whatever speed it wants, instead of the usual rule where a character could only engage if they moved no more than half their movement rate), so long as the mount itself doesn't engage and isn't engaged.

So, you basically ignore the +1SR per movement because the character themselves aren't moving, but instead need to basically wing it and give a rough idea of when the character would be able to swing, realistically a character is only likely to ever make a single attack from a moving mount because after the attack they've already moved too far away without the player using their ride skill to have the mount stop.

That about right?

e.g.

character on a horse with mobility. The horse can now move 72 meters at a run, the character has a lance, and lines up their attack, the characters normal SR is 3 for dex, 1 for size and 0 for the lance, so the earliest they can attack is still SR4, you effectively rule it that, so long as they successfully control their mount (which is automatic on normal terrain for a cavalry horse) they make their attack at the appropriate SR, so long as  they're within around 20 meters of the riders starting point, and if they're further away, just nudge the attack to be later in the round?

 

Thats how i've been doing it, which feels reasonable for a heavy or light cavalryman.

[soltakss]

Yes.

Although the mount is a separate creature, it is still under your control in many ways, unless it is a warmount or intelligent beast.

What I do is make the Adventurer attempt a Ride roll each round they want their mount to do something in combat, except when running away.

But, movement should use the mount's movement. Moving across a party and attacking while carrying on is one attack, really. A charge might get stopped, meaning you are in the thick of combat, or it might run through the group, allowing you to wheel and come back again next round.

I normally just delay the attacks to later in the round to reflect movement times, but I liked RQ3 Movement at so many metres per Strike Rank, something that RQG doesn't like at all.

[Blindhamster]

5 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Yes.

Although the mount is a separate creature, it is still under your control in many ways, unless it is a warmount or intelligent beast.

What I do is make the Adventurer attempt a Ride roll each round they want their mount to do something in combat, except when running away.

But, movement should use the mount's movement. Moving across a party and attacking while carrying on is one attack, really. A charge might get stopped, meaning you are in the thick of combat, or it might run through the group, allowing you to wheel and come back again next round.

I normally just delay the attacks to later in the round to reflect movement times, but I liked RQ3 Movement at so many metres per Strike Rank, something that RQG doesn't like at all.

RQG does have 3m = 1SR, but it kind of falls over because it doesn't handle what the mobility spell does, nor does it take into account fast creatures. I suppose it sort of makes sense for unmounted characters that will typically have to make far more measured movements to get into combat, max of half your movement and still make an attack.

[soltakss]

What I do is to work out the maximum movement possible in a round and divide by 12, to give the movement per SR. OK, it isn't exact because some people might say that you start movement on your DEX SR, but whatever. Then, you simply work out how many SRs it takes to move from A to B and that is the delay in action.

[Blindhamster]

5 minutes ago, soltakss said:

What I do is to work out the maximum movement possible in a round and divide by 12, to give the movement per SR. OK, it isn't exact because some people might say that you start movement on your DEX SR, but whatever. Then, you simply work out how many SRs it takes to move from A to B and that is the delay in action.

IMO, you dont start movement on dex SR, because you can always move your full MOV your approach is more or less how i handle it mentally tbh!

[soltakss]

21 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

IMO, you dont start movement on dex SR, because you can always move your full MOV

I agree, but some people start movement with a delay, so high-DEX people have an advantage. It always seemed like too much extra work for no real benefit.

[Blindhamster]

YGMV I guess! :D, but I agree it makes one of the few parts of the game that is a bit time consuming even more so for no benefit.

(Strike Ranks is definitely the one part of the game that feels slow in my group right now, having to have everyone say what they want to do, then work out when they do the things and then go back and cycle through them in SR order is so much slower than an AP/movement system... funnily enough I tried something similar to how RQ:G works when working on UESRPG:RRe and ultimately decided against it because it was slow when we tried it then too. I wonder if they might provide an alternative approach in the GM sourcebook..)

[Akhôrahil]

Move and SR is a huge headache under the current rules, doubly so with fast creatures, triply so with mounts. I'm just winging it so far, but...

[Blindhamster]

technically it isn't that complicated IMO

You cannot move and use a ranged attack

You can only move a max of half your movement value and still be able to make a melee attack

Ever 3m of movement increases your SR by 1.
 

So. a normal character can move 12m and make a melee attack in theory, this would be DEX+SIZ SRs + weapon SR + 4, which realistically means a single attack for a human type creature.

A very fast creature (lets say something with Movement 12) can move 15m and still make an attack, but will do so at DEX+SIZ SRs + weapon SR + 6, which is almost certainly a single attack.

A normal character with mobility is more interesting, they can move 24m and make a melee attack in theory, but that would mean DEX+SIZ SRs + weapon SR + 8... except mobility also reduces SR by 1. So, a particularly large and fast character might be able to make an attack if their normal DEX+SIZ+Weapon = 5 (5+8-1=12) it'll just happen at SR12.

If a creature doesn't make any melee attacks, it can move it's full Movement regardless of strike ranks because they also cannot make ranged attacks when moving.

***

Mounts or chariots are important because the mount/chariot is its own thing, moving independant, so long as they dont become engaged in melee themselves (hint, dont use swords), they can move their full movement regardless of SR. The only real logic that needs to be considered is how much (if any) impact on the riders SR for an attack there would be. For that it's just pure logic, if a Horse under the effect of mobility can move 72 meters a round, and its rider commands it to charge past something that is 30 meters away, you know it'll be about half way through the round before the character can make their attack, a character just can't attack earlier in a round than their normal SIZ+DEX+Weapon would allow.

***
A mounted character also realistically cant make multiple attacks in a round unless they wish to become engaged, doing so would then mean they follow the normal (mounted) disengage rules and cannot disengage before SR6 the following round.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Blindhamster

[Mechashef]

I find movement in combat to be a bit of a mess.

Creatures can move up to half their MOV rating and still participate in melee.  That seems reasonable.

• A Duck (MOV 5) can move 7.5m (5 X 3 X 0.5)
• A Human (MOV 8 ) can move 12m (8 X 3 X 0.5)
• A Centaur (MOV 12) can move 18m (12 X 3 X 0.5)

But

It costs 1 SR per 3M moved.  So the time taken to perform that move component is:

• 3SR for the Duck (7.5 / 3 and round up)
• 4SR for the Human (12 / 3)
• 6SR for the Centaur (18 / 3) 

And this is where in my opinion it breaks down.  It only takes the slow duck 1/4 of their SRs to move half their MOV rating, while it takes the centaur 1/2 their SRs to move half their MOV rating.  This makes it harder for faster creatures to do their half move then perform an action.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed preciously and hopefully someone has a nice workable solution.

 

I have tried various things, none of which I've ever been really happy with.

In my game the number of meters moved per SR is (MOV / 3 then round up).  This comes to:

• MOV of 1,2,3 move 1M per SR (such as Gorp)
• MOV of 4,5,6 move 2M per SR (such as Duck)
• MOV of 7,8,9 move 3M per SR (Humans and many other near human creatures such as broo, elves, trolls etc)
• MOV 10,11,12 move 4M per SR (such as Horses, Centaurs and most flying creatures)

Now:

• The slow Duck moves 2M per SR, taking 4SR to move half its MOV rating.
• The human is unchanged moving 3m per SR, taking 4SR to move half its MOV rating.
• The centaur moves 4m per SR, taking 5SR to move half its MOV rating.  Not perfect but an improvement over the current system.

 

Btw.  Has anyone noticed that Rubble Runners have a MOV of 3 while Snakes have a MOV of 6?  Snakes are twice as fast as Rubble Runners!

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Mechashef
Corrected Centaur details caused by broken connection between brain and fingers.

[Blindhamster]

I like the idea with movement calculations!

[Dissolv]

To add a bit of fuel to the fire, I allow moving and throwing weapons, because in real life, that's how that was often done......

 

 

[Blindhamster]

i might trial the same, but with the caveat you're at 1/2 skill, because aiming is still easier when stood still. Honestly I might trial the same for ranged attacks in general, pretty sure it's how Mythras does it.

[Dissolv]

That's just it -- javelins are supposed to be thrown on the run.  See -- any Olympic video of the event.   I have read several accounts describing their use in this manner for ancient battles, particularly for the loose order units.  Thrown weapons are just different from modern mechanically or chemically powered weapons, where the body needs to be still to let the mechanism work at maximum accuracy.  Thrown weapons are very much integrated in our own bio mechanics, and humans can throw things extremely well. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-important-human-adaptations-2016-6#though-other-primates-have-the-ability-to-understand-the-trajectories-of-thrown-objects-allowing-them-to-dodge-no-animals-can-aim-and-throw-with-the-power-and-precision-of-a-human-12

 

 

[Anunnaki]

3 hours ago, Mechashef said:

Btw.  Has anyone noticed that Rubble Runners have a MOV of 3 while Snakes have a MOV of 6?  Snakes are twice as fast as Rubble Runners!

Didn't notice this and checked and you're right! RQ2/Classic Rubble Runners have a MOV of 6, so I guess the little pests got slower in RQG.  Sounds like errata.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Anunnaki

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

i might trial the same, but with the caveat you're at 1/2 skill, because aiming is still easier when stood still. Honestly I might trial the same for ranged attacks in general, pretty sure it's how Mythras does it.

Modern target archery is more of an exercise in ballistics than shooting a heavy longbow. With that or a comparable self bow is usually detrimental to hold the target in your sight for longer than a few heartbeats. (A long bow is a strong self bow with long limbs. Nothing mythical about it. The Vikings were using yew bows without being famed archers, with the exception of Einar Tambarskjelve.)

That said, you do want to hold your breath until the arrow has left your bow, to maintain the tension.

I would allow firing a bow with a slight penalty for foregoing the movement rate of a strike rank. If you aren't moving at full speed anyway, I see no problem. It's like moving from one mark to another in a walk-up field archery target. You can pause and re-calculate your ballistics, or you can just go there, stop for a second or two in a suitable stance while releasing your arrow that you loaded on your slow walk between position markers. (At least if the walk-up is on even ground, in a straight line, and doesn't require any serious climbing.)