Cults book and Gifts

[Blindhamster]

Do cults other than Humakt give gifts? Something I know the later non-chaosium RuneQuest/Mythras games had was gifts being a thing most cults had. Is that not really a thing with RQG? Or is it a thing we might see appear in the cults book maybe?

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

16 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Do cults other than Humakt give gifts? Something I know the later non-chaosium RuneQuest/Mythras games had was gifts being a thing most cults had. Is that not really a thing with RQG? Or is it a thing we might see appear in the cults book maybe?

 

Yes.  For example Yelmalio in accord with Cults of Prax.  " Thus he insists that Initiates of the Adventuring Path accept a gift and take on a geas, as in the manner of Humakt. Only one gift and the concomitant number of geases are given at the Initiate level.    "

I  expect this will persist in the to-be-produced RQG cults book, since it's pretty vital to any existing Yelmalio character.

 

[Brootse]

37 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Do cults other than Humakt give gifts? Something I know the later non-chaosium RuneQuest/Mythras games had was gifts being a thing most cults had. Is that not really a thing with RQG? Or is it a thing we might see appear in the cults book maybe?

 

Thanatar and Humakt's Lunar counterpart Yanafal Tarnils also gave gifts in previous editions.

[Blindhamster]

I'd like to see the idea of gifts and geasa be more common to cults, presumably with the sorts of gifts being relevant to the god

[Ian Absentia]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I'd like to see the idea of gifts and geasa be more common to cults, presumably with the sorts of gifts being relevant to the god

Arguably, this is sorta-kinda what Rune spells are, the gods' way of saying, "Share in what it's like to be me."  Gifts and geasa, as seen with Humakt and Yelmalio, are the gods' way of saying, "I'm acting through you."  I like them being a more extreme form of magic that slots adventurers into a more powerful, but restricted path by way of personal sacrifice.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing temporary gifts and geasa be part of heroquests when an adventurer begins to surrender free will and don the aspect of a god.

!i!

Edited October 20, 2020 by Ian Absentia

[davecake]

7 hours ago, Brootse said:

Thanatar and Humakt's Lunar counterpart Yanafal Tarnils also gave gifts in previous editions.

 

And I am fairly sure they will in RQG too.

But Gifts remain a minority thing - a few cults have them, most do not. 

[Blindhamster]

It's probably my only gripe tbh, the system doesnt have talents or stuff like that either so gifts are setup to be the only way to get such benefits 

[French Desperate WindChild]

9 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I'd like to see the idea of gifts and geasa be more common to cults, presumably with the sorts of gifts being relevant to the god

you have big gifts in the rules with geas (humakt, yelmalio) but also soft gifts (for example +10 sword with Orlanth adventurous)

I would like to give very soft gifts and geas (not big impact in gameplay) for a lot of gods but "true" gifts (like Humakt) only for strict and  limited / fanatical / specialized cults (Maran gor, ...)

gifts and geas are made to "help" the initiate to follow the only path. But there is always another way when you are Ernalda, and nobody can say what you have to do when you are Orlanth, etc...

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by French Desperate WindChild
spelling mistake, at least one identified

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

It's probably my only gripe tbh, the system doesnt have talents or stuff like that either so gifts are setup to be the only way to get such benefits

You've got Runes and Passions creating Inspirational augments, which in my mind covers a lot of special "talents".  Plus you can now apply other skills as augments - you could certainly describe these as talents.  (Good example is in the White Bull campaign that Jeff runs on Twitch and available to view on YouTube with Gina Gravedancer regularly invoking her Dance skill to augment various other skills.)

[SMW]

8 hours ago, davecake said:

And I am fairly sure they will in RQG too.

But Gifts remain a minority thing - a few cults have them, most do not. 

Isn't it just Truth rune cults that have gifts & geas?  And not all of them either.

[Blindhamster]

21 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

You've got Runes and Passions creating Inspirational augments, which in my mind covers a lot of special "talents".  Plus you can now apply other skills as augments - you could certainly describe these as talents.  (Good example is in the White Bull campaign that Jeff runs on Twitch and available to view on YouTube with Gina Gravedancer regularly invoking her Dance skill to augment various other skills.)

This is a fair point, but I'm thinking things like shooting on the move, its a skill that real world archers can learn to do. Stuff like sweeping strikes from mythras etc

[David Scott]

25 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

This is a fair point, but I'm thinking things like shooting on the move, its a skill that real world archers can learn to do.

That's already covered, by Kuschile Horse Archery, however it's a hero cult, just add an equivalent to any mounted god (Waha for example)

[David Scott]

16 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Do cults other than Humakt give gifts?

Humakt, Yanafal Tarnils, Yelmalio & Thanatar are the current ones. 

[Blindhamster]

8 minutes ago, David Scott said:

That's already covered, by Kuschile Horse Archery, however it's a hero cult, just add an equivalent to any mounted god (Waha for example)

you dont need to be in a cult to shoot arrows on a moving horse - its allowed by default, just capped at ride skill like any other weapon. page 219 RQ:G

 

I mean on foot shooting on the move, which is specifically not allowed at all. (even though skilled archers can do it, albeit not with a large bow, but then you shouldn't be able to fire a large bow on horse either really)

 

Obviously, I could hand wave it and say they can do it, but doing so halves their skill and requires they have a bow skill of 100 (so kind of like the multi attack rules for melee). But one of those things where such things being able to be learned through training etc would be pretty logical rather than just a thing anyone with a good skill can do (because simply being a good archer in the real world doesnt equate to being able to competantly move, run or jump and shoot.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Blindhamster

[David Scott]

4 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

I mean on foot shooting on the move, which is specifically not allowed at all. (even though skilled archers can do it, albeit not with a large bow, but then you shouldn't be able to fire a large bow on horse either really)

Just do the same. MGF page 6.

[Blindhamster]

Just now, David Scott said:

Just do the same. MGF page 6.

As always, falling back to MGF in answer to queries on forum posts feels a bit like the cop out answer lol. Like, is the fact its completely not allowed by the base rules because in setting there is some actual reason? Is it a balance thing? I guess it could be down to it simply not being a thing people had tried. (in which case should moving and shooting on foot be something you have to hero quest for?).

Still, thanks for replying, it's appreciated!

[Blindhamster]

Also, what exactly does Kuschile Horse Archery do? I ask because the implication was that it let you shoot whilst moving on a horse, but the base rules allow that regardless now, so just interested! Thanks!

[soltakss]

6 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Also, what exactly does Kuschile Horse Archery do?

It gives you a Kuschile Horse archery skill, which is your chance of using a bow on a moving horse, not restricted by your Ride skill. So, if you have composite Bow 80%, Ride 70% and Kuschile Horse archery 50%, then you chance of using a bow on a moving horse is 50%, not bow capped to Ride of 70%.

This is clearly rubbish, so I have always played that Kuschile Horse Archery is an ability that allows you to use your full bow chance while on a moving horse. Griffin Mountain gave Hawk Riders Kuschile Hawk Archery, so I would have a separate ability for each type of mount, but allow the same ability for Unicorns/Zebras/Horses.

[Blindhamster]

9 minutes ago, soltakss said:

It gives you a Kuschile Horse archery skill, which is your chance of using a bow on a moving horse, not restricted by your Ride skill. So, if you have composite Bow 80%, Ride 70% and Kuschile Horse archery 50%, then you chance of using a bow on a moving horse is 50%, not bow capped to Ride of 70%.

This is clearly rubbish, so I have always played that Kuschile Horse Archery is an ability that allows you to use your full bow chance while on a moving horse. Griffin Mountain gave Hawk Riders Kuschile Hawk Archery, so I would have a separate ability for each type of mount, but allow the same ability for Unicorns/Zebras/Horses.

yeah kuschile horse archery does sound rubbish Your approach makes more sense so hopefully they go with something more like that in the cult book. I guess an alternative, would be for it to be something you could augment your bow skill with whilst mounted. That would make it useful!

Edited October 20, 2020 by Blindhamster

[g33k]

8 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

It's probably my only gripe tbh, the system doesnt have talents or stuff like that either so gifts are setup to be the only way to get such benefits 

I expect this will be something we get from the GM's book, as rewards from Heroquesting (i.e. when we get the hq'ing rules): unusual -- & even unique -- abilities.

[Baron Wulfraed]

17 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Yes.  For example Yelmalio in accord with Cults of Prax.  " Thus he insists that Initiates of the Adventuring Path accept a gift and take on a geas, as in the manner of Humakt. Only one gift and the concomitant number of geases are given at the Initiate level.    "

I  expect this will persist in the to-be-produced RQG cults book, since it's pretty vital to any existing Yelmalio character.

 

For Yelmalio, one doesn't even have to wait for a supplement book. The existing RQ:RiG book already has gift/geas tables for Yelmalio (page 309)

Granted, page 296 (Humakt) does hint that a supplement book could expand beyond the 12 gifts listed there.

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

I have always played that Kuschile Horse Archery is an ability that allows you to use your full bow chance while on a moving horse. Griffin Mountain gave Hawk Riders Kuschile Hawk Archery, so I would have a separate ability for each type of mount, but allow the same ability for Unicorns/Zebras/Horses.

I have always played it the same, without the distinction between hawks and horse-types.

[g33k]

17 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I'd like to see the idea of gifts and geasa be more common to cults, presumably with the sorts of gifts being relevant to the god

I disagree.

I don't think the Cults should be so homogenous as that -- all of them offering Gifts & Geasa, etc.  It leans over toward a blander experience, in my experience (e.g. D&D's model of deities).

I am fine with this being very limited.

Do note, however, that there are some other instances of similar things;  not identical, but similar.  E.g. Orlanthi are supposed to Riddle-Challenge all Yelmalians, and offer do do a service for Ernaldans.  Chalana Arroyans are to be pacifists.  Etc...

 

 

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

I have always played it the same, without the distinction between hawks and horse-types.

You big softie! 🙂

[Brootse]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

This is clearly rubbish, so I have always played that Kuschile Horse Archery is an ability that allows you to use your full bow chance while on a moving horse.

Same.