Ethilrist

[dumuzid]

The RQG campaign I was a player in reached its finale last night, and it involved Ethilrist centrally.  In our Glorantha he was convinced at the Second Battle of Moonbroth that Argrath was going to bring about the doom of Glorantha.  Our characters had been sent on earlier operations with Ethilrist and his troop by the Feathered Horse Queen, during which his blasé attitude towards what we regarded as terrible dangers (he nearly threatened to smash a True Dragon's egg before a tailed priest while we were with him) gave us a healthy wariness of him.

In early 1628, when the joint armies of Sartar and Prax were mustering under Leika Black-Spear and her consort Argrath to settle accounts in Tarsh, Ethilrist set in motion a scheme to cripple both sides and remove Argrath from the board.  He and his sorcerers developed a spell, fueled by the forced veneration of Muse Roost's peasant population, to rouse the dragon of the Oslir River, whose true name both Ethilrist and our player characters learned while working together.  Their plan was to raise the dragon's jaws beneath all of Kordros Island in Tarsh during the height of the fighting around Dunstop to swallow all the combined forces and heroes of the White Bull movement, Sartar and Lunar Tarsh.  He managed to keep his intentions secret from his intended victims, and began the Battle of Dunstop on the Sartarite side, leading his Black Horse Troop and magically arrived Waertagi allies.

Back in Sea Season the player characters, all members of the city ring of a new settlement on the eastern edge of the Grazelands, were invited to a Western-style tourney at Muse Roost, and managed to gain Ethilrist's trust sufficiently that he obliquely revealed some of his plan, after swearing us into his confidence.  Through previous interactions with dragons and dragonewts our characters had learned enough to anticipate manipulation of the Oslir dragon, and were already making preparations to visit the God Time and prevent them.  In a heroquest that stretched on for weeks in the mortal world a few of our characters ventured into the Greater Darkness gods' realm, where where they cut deals with Shargash, entered under the Dome, visited the Hill of Gold, and finally ascended Yelm's Footstool.  Previous heroquests undertaken by our characters had revealed that Yelmalio had once coupled with Xentha, the Night, to father Argan Argar.  My troll character, portraying Argan Argar in the God Time, claimed the right to take the Ten Tests and be acknowledged Emperor of Dara Happa on that basis.  Our questers dethroned Kazkurtum, the Empty Emperor, and my troll (an illuminate of the House of Black Arkat, transformed into a human through Argan Argar magic for the occasion) took the throne to summon Oslir as the rightful emperor.

She did not come.  In the Middle World, the battle of Dunstop had reached its height.  Ethilrist began the sorcerous shaping that would raise the Oslir's jaws beneath Kodros island as his troops and Waertagi turned on their erstwhile allies and drove for Heruvernalda, the greatest Earth temple in Tarsh and the only Earth power on the island capable of resisting the waking dragon for long.  Others of our player characters were brought through the hero planes to defend Heruvernalda from inside, rallying the axe maidens and guardian spirits to withstand the Black Horse troop.  Our earth priestess briefly became one with the island to coordinate the Earth power against Ethilrist's dragonrise.  The Oslira did not answer in the Gods Realm because she was being drawn back fully into the Middle World.  Our heroquesters returned from the Gods Realm riding Kargzant down from the Sky, and a ferocious martial and magical battle unfolded at the gates of Heruvernalda.  Our reunited characters managed to throw back the Black Horse troop and sufficiently disrupt Ethilrist's magic that the Dara Happan Emperor's song of power overwhelmed the Western sorcery's claim on the dragon's attention.  The Oslira relaxed her jaws and sunk back into sleep, sparing the island and everyone on it--but not before her great tongue lashed out from the river, wrapped around Ethilrist's waist, and dragged him beneath the water and into her gullet.  Which was poetic, since it was her egg he'd nearly smashed the year before.

In the epilogue of the game we learned that Ethilrist managed to get back to the Underworld after that, but he kept finding his way back to the Middle World blocked.  Old allies refused him, old paths were closed.  His final scene ended when his shade was confronted down there by the chief war spirit of our player characters' community, Igeyorlm, the demigoddess daughter of Shargash and the Oslir dragon.  She brandished her green stone warclub and flashed him her fangs, before presumably dragging him off to her father's hell.  The Black Horses were offered sanctuary at our characters' community, along with as many of their human riders as they cared to bring with them. 

Obviously just my group's version, but that's one way Ethilrist could meet his end in the Hero Wars.

[Erol of Backford]

Regarding the Black Horse Troop, assuming the numbers fluctuate with battle losses how often would Ethilrist go to hell to replenish the mount numbers? Also would this be a Hero Quest to obtain new mounts?

Any guess as to the steps, starting and ending points? I asked about how to steal a mount or be given one from Ethilrist but it was not deemed reasonable. The PC's may be able to get their own if they go to hell? is there a map of hell and where the stages might be?

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Any guess as to the steps, starting and ending points? I asked about how to steal a mount or be given one from Ethilrist but it was not deemed reasonable. The PC's may be able to get their own if they go to hell? is there a map of hell and where the stages might be?

Bear in mind that we don't know anything particular about Ethilrist's quest through Hell, so no available/known starting and ending points.

The "steeds" though are sentient demons, so "getting their own" likely means the PC's become slaves of the steeds, not the other way around.  (Ethilrist doesn't care in that regard, and likely thinks the black horses are more reliable.)  

As for a map of Hell, what we have are largely relevant for the Lightbringer's Quest.  Also, Hell is not really reliably mapped - it's the realm of nightmare, dreams, etc and overlaps the Spirit World, so things change, shift, lead to different places at different times.  E.g. the River Styx divides Hell, but it's also the Black Sea or it's divided into multiple rivers, or the River of Swords, etc.  It may be crossed by a bridge, or there is no bridge but there is a Ferryman...  You might find yourself in the Fog of Ignorance, but within that you might find the Ivory Tower which is also LM's home.  If you can think of a nightmare sequence, you've probably got yourself a starting map of Hell.

[Erol of Backford]

Sorry these PC's have Heroquest super bowl rings and the steads would not be the PC's masters. The PC would go on the Heroquest like Ethilrist and bring the mounts back with them as their friendly pets. MGWV

45 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

map of Hell

Weren't there some sketches of hell in one of the older Greg books? I'll have to look for that is bit more. Will see about developing something to get these mounts.

Thanks again!

[Eff]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Regarding the Black Horse Troop, assuming the numbers fluctuate with battle losses how often would Ethilrist go to hell to replenish the mount numbers? Also would this be a Hero Quest to obtain new mounts?

Any guess as to the steps, starting and ending points? I asked about how to steal a mount or be given one from Ethilrist but it was not deemed reasonable. The PC's may be able to get their own if they go to hell? is there a map of hell and where the stages might be?

Ethilrist and the Black Horse Troop sit at an uncomfortable nexus where they have a materialist understanding of the Underworld as a physical place where you can walk in and out, with difficulty, but the rest of the world around them treats the Underworld as a spiritual place that cannot be treated as if it was a materialist one. As such, I think that Ethilrist has some kind of treaty or contract with whoever leads the Demon Horses down in hell which allows Demon Horses to be reincarnated through normal horse foals (where they presumably grow up uncannily quickly, stare creepily [assuming horses can stare in any other way] at random passers-by, neigh and whinny in spooky ways, etc.) in order to maintain a consistent number in the middle world, furthering that uncomfortable nexus by applying contract law to death and rebirth. 

I don't think this a "Heroquest" in the sense that there's a mythological pathway that anyone can follow Ethilrist down- I think it's still a "Heroquest" in the sense that you're stepping outside of the normal material world, but it's not one where you Meet With The Goddess and then contemplate Woman as Temptress before you get your horsey Ultimate Boon- for one thing, it seems extremely unbelievable to me that Ethilrist has sexual thoughts that involve living beings rather than abstract states of violence. 

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

it seems extremely unbelievable to me that Ethilrist has sexual thoughts that involve living beings rather than abstract states of violence

I wasn't considering how he felt/feels especially regarding sex. But isn't Toldat a bit as you describe but them wants to engage with an island of women? On that note, who does Ethilrist follow? Curious as to his stats and abilities besides being able to come back from hell and of course the question begs to be asked how the hell did he obtain said power?

He fits with the whole Halloween theme don't you think, nightmare steads... if he had a few jack-o-bears as riders it'd really make the headless horseman proud.

What would the stats be on the nightmares? Only hurt by magic, regenerate, radiate fear with no MP use?

[scott-martin]

15 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

jack-o-bears

Do not speak to him of this, I implore you.

[Eff]

19 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I wasn't considering how he felt/feels especially regarding sex. But isn't Toldat a bit as you describe but them wants to engage with an island of women? On that note, who does Ethilrist follow? Curious as to his stats and abilities besides being able to come back from hell and of course the question begs to be asked how the hell did he obtain said power?

He fits with the whole Halloween theme don't you think, nightmare steads... if he had a few jack-o-bears as riders it'd really make the headless horseman proud.

What would the stats be on the nightmares? Only hurt by magic, regenerate, radiate fear with no MP use?

Well, Tolat is about concrete violence, like swords and blood and so on, stuff that's metaphorically close to sex already, and Ethilrist is about the abstract violence of reading the volume of your memoirs that traces your entire family tree at helpless, innocent people. Frightful stuff. 

[Erol of Backford]

So he approaches becoming chaotic if he isn't already/has been?

[jajagappa]

6 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

So he approaches becoming chaotic if he isn't already/has been?

Probably better to think of him as approaching God Learner materialism.  (Perhaps in line with "PC's have Heroquest super bowl rings"???)

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The PC would go on the Heroquest like Ethilrist and bring the mounts back with them as their friendly pets. MGWV

I think there are classic story motifs about this.  Usually, such fall into traps set for the ambitious but unwary.  (At least they would in my games.) 🙂 

57 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

if he had a few jack-o-bears as riders it'd really make the headless horseman proud.

He's been there and done that.  And it forced him into an unpleasant "blending" with his follower, Keener Than.

58 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

What would the stats be on the nightmares? Only hurt by magic, regenerate, radiate fear with no MP use?

There are likely many 'types' - after all, you can find ANYTHING in the Underworld (including everything lost, dead, or destroyed).  Neil Gaiman's Sandman is a good source of inspiration.  They could be physical nightmares - the Corinthian from the Sandman, Michael Myers from the Halloween movies, etc.  They could be ghostly apparitions who trigger your Passions (Fear, Grief, tests of Love or Loyalty) - I particularly like those that present your PC's loves or kin in terrifying danger, triggering the Passion, and then trapping you in the unending nightmare (if it was CoC it would be SAN loss; in RQ it might bump up Fear passions, trigger Fear when you invoke the associated Passions, trigger Illusions, etc.).  Or you might have Nightmare spirits that covertly possess you and act when your MP's drop below a certain level and then triggering some other action.

[AlHazred]

You know, people give Ethilrist a hard time, but it's not all his fault! He has never been the same since the Hungry Jack incident, and his whole dick-waving contest with Keener Than.

Edited October 7, 2022 by AlHazred
Edited for clarity.

[Erol of Backford]

Looks like the Black Horse Troop was on the Sartarite side in 1613?

THE MILITARY CAMPAIGN, OPENING MOVES BY THE SARTAR REBELLION
(SPRING, 1613)
1/2/2 JONSTOWN INVESTED
Rebellious Sartar forces laid siege to Jonstown, and the garrison reported having
trouble with the residents inside the walls too. Invaders included 3 Pol Joni
clans, the Colymar tribe, a unit of the Black Horse Troop, and the Stormwalkers
nearby.

The Stafford House Campaign

[Darius West]

Where does the Atroxic Church fit in all of this?  In HQ Ethilrist is a leader of the Atroxic Church.  I was under the impression that HQ lore was still Glorantha?

[soltakss]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Where does the Atroxic Church fit in all of this?

My guess is that the Atroxic Church will be downplayed, or at least the way it is written will differ a lot from the HW/HQ version.

 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

Where does the Atroxic Church fit in all of this?  In HQ Ethilrist is a leader of the Atroxic Church.  I was under the impression that HQ lore was still Glorantha?

I expect it will be gone altogether - it's another HW/HQ relic with a strong medieval/church flavor that doesn't really fit.  

This is from a post by Jeff on FB back in March 2020.  Clearly Ethilrist has taken his own path, but I doubt it will be labelled "Atroxic".

Sir Ethilrist was the descendant of a long line of mercenary captains in Ralios. After a series of defeats, he led his Troop across the great mountains, through the Syndics Ban,. To avoid the Ban, he led his troop through Hell. When they left Ralios they were the White Horse Troop. When they emerged on the western borders of the Lunar Empire they were the Black Horse Troop, and Ethilrist was a Hero.

Ethilrist was a Hrestoli, but he encountered Hrestol himself in the middle of Hrestol's own quest, ravaged Hell, and Ethrilrist gained great loot. Ethilrist is sometimes thought to be an incarnation of Hrestol.

And yet. Ethilrist's followers worship Hrestol as a god and Ethilrist as demigod. And somehow gain Rune magic from Hrestol (!). And the magic includes such strange things as Shield, Darksword and Control Demon (and I've seen rumours of Command Chaos!). And yet, Ethilrist is known to offer worship to the Invisible God, and trains a few sorcerers to serve him.

Some think there are deeper secrets known only to the inner circles of the cult. That Ethilrist worships the Eternal Hero, or even the Anti-Hero or the Hero's Shadow. Others claim he is a secret Arkat and that his cult is an Arkati fraud. Ethrilist knows the Red Emperor well (and personally dislikes him, although often serves him), many of the Feathered Horse Queens, and many others. He has likely long since transcended anything resembling Malkionism, but it is known that his runes are Man, Mastery, and Darkness. However, the Troop as a whole is commonly identified with Darkness and Harmony.

[Erol of Backford]

3 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Darksword

Tell more, divine magic?

[metcalph]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

Where does the Atroxic Church fit in all of this?  In HQ Ethilrist is a leader of the Atroxic Church.  I was under the impression that HQ lore was still Glorantha?

Atrox isn't HQ lore but Hero Wars RPG lore. 

The Church no longer exists and Ethilrist really only believed in himself.  

Atrox may still be in Glorantha but I strongly doubt that anybody in Black Horse County has heard of him.

 

[DucksMustDie]

In our game: after Pennel Ford, Harrek killed Ethilrist, ate his heart with beans and looted his treasure 🙂

[JRE]

I really like Ethilrist as a Humanist Hero, refusing to bow to any deity. He started as an Arkati, with good intentions, but after his stay in Hell, and doing what Arkat could not do, getting out by his own effort, he found himself lacking in models, till he picked Hrestol.

In my Glorantha he is just trying to experience Joy of the Heart, and ideally be taken bodily into Solace, as he does not really care much about a normal afterlife, or in reincarnation, as he would not remember being Ethilrist. So he is quite willing to run any risks, just by hoping he picks the right side for once and can ascend. Instead he dies time and time again, and he returns from Hell, time and time again. Each time he returns, he also brings back the Hell Hound and any hell mounts that have been killed since he last went down. Depending on how it went, he may even bring some riders, but riders are the expendable part in the Black Horse Troop. 

I hope he finally succeeds, and becomes an Ascended master, away from the cycle. It probably will take him by surprise.

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, DucksMustDie said:

In our game: after Pennel Ford, Harrek killed Ethilrist, ate his heart with beans and looted his treasure 🙂

Just a small detour on Ethilrist's return from Hell, then...

[jajagappa]

21 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Tell more, divine magic?

What you read (i.e. "Darksword" and the line "somehow gain Rune magic from Hrestol (!). And the magic includes ") is all there is at this point.  Nothing more any of us can comment on.

[Erol of Backford]

Sounds like some sort of Arkati Black Magic Sorcery, sounds like fun, maybe Demon Magic. Like the spell let's you drain magic points and gives them to the attacker based on damage with a power gain roll or something, life-force stealing spell, wait that sound a bit like tapping or maybe even like a vampire?

[Richard S.]

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

What you read (i.e. "Darksword" and the line "somehow gain Rune magic from Hrestol (!). And the magic includes ") is all there is at this point.  Nothing more any of us can comment on.

Well, we do know that Hrestol when worshipped as an ancestor gives Dismiss Magic, Shield, and Spirit Block. https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/websites/facebook/2021-02-runequest-on-facebook-march-2021-highlights/#ib-toc-anchor-9

[Erol of Backford]

Initiates may sacrifice POW for Rune Points. Hrestol provides the special Rune spells of Dismiss Magic, Shield, and Spirit Block.

Hrestol, my kind of Westerner.

 (TotRM13)

Ethilrist however seems to be slightly possessed or even tainted? Likely Illuminated...

Edited October 25, 2022 by Erol of Backford

[JRE]

Ethilrist probably was an Arkati illuminate before going to Hell. He became something more in Hell. For me, now he is just looking for a way to break the circle that does not require him to stay in Hell. He would not mind being well known all over Glorantha (therefore his writings) but as I said what he really would like is to become an Ascended Master and a role model for thousands of wannabe heroes. That would justify all the horrors, all the betrayals, all the blood and suffering.

After all these years, he is not sure if he really experienced Joy, or he imagined it. I would have him only being happy in a battlefield risking his life, hoping this is really the last time.

The bindings of the demon horses and the Hell Hound are only to him, so the moment he finally goes, the Black Horse Troop will be no more.