Molobanamakur, a demonic imp of Prax?

[Martin Dick]

Hi,

does anyone know anything about this? It's mentioned in the Sartar Companion and it's one of the versions of Trickster studied at the Trickster College in Slontos before it was destroyed

cheers

Martin

[Joerg]

The name and the fact that it was studied at the Trickster College is basically all that has been published for this, yet. 

Demonic imp seems to suggest a mostly malevolent Trickster - possibly spoiling milk or causing beasts to run dry, possibly destroying equipment, possibly sewing in clothing overnight so it doesn't fit any more (no, wait, that's the definition of calories).

Possibly something a lot more serious - like giving a temporary curse (or blessing) to turn a person into a herd beast, or awaken a herd beast to personhood, only not really.

Possibly what remains of the Founders' and Protectresses' ability to shape-change into the hybrid form shown on the Nomad Gods counters.

Possibly a magic that cancels the ride skill of a beast nomad. (or a Morokanth's ability to direct their herd men to gather suitable plants for them.)

Feel free to speculate, write up your whacky idea. If it becomes something rather useful, add negative side effects. That ride cancellation might induce a strong averse reaction of steeds and herd beasts to the caster for a couple of days, for instance.

 

That Trickster cult write-up contains other dropped names. Such name-dropping has a long tradition in Gloranthan publications, like e.g. the introduction of the Guild of Chaos Monks in Ralios. Sounded cool, so it got added to Tiskos, without anybody knowing what it was about.

 

The trade fleets of Mostakall and Sigtrigor mentioned on the same page - who or what are they? When were they destroyed by Trickster? The mere presence of trade fleets anytime in Godtime brings up quite a few questions.

The presence of the Trickster changes the world. Everything you read in connection to the Trickster may be a trick played on you, dear reader. You have been warned.

 

[Martin Dick]

Thanks Joerg, some neat and evil ideas there 😈

[David Scott]

On 12/3/2020 at 11:48 AM, Martin Dick said:

Hi,

does anyone know anything about this?

Even though the Praxians were effectively an Orlanthi culture in the First Age, there is no Praxian Trickster. Eurmal may exist amongst the Pol-joni, but only as a reflection of their Sartarite/Praxian tribe status.

Quote

It's mentioned in the Sartar Companion and it's one of the versions of Trickster studied at the Trickster College in Slontos before it was destroyed

it's no coincidence that the next on the list is Niti Fer a Waha, a demonic imp of Pent. Two demonic imps one from Prax, the other from Pent. This to me is the same entity with different masks, and also defines their range. I suspect it's a spirit cult found amongst both cultures. Praxian members may have access to a few rune spells. I would place it amongst the spirits known by the sunset society. I'd give them frightener and/or imp trickster magics.

[EricW]

Could be a trickster hero quester.

I mean, what do you do with someone who becomes known as a Trickster initiate in Prax? Life is harsh, so their tricks can cause great hardship. If other tribes learn you have a trickster, nobody will trust you.

On the other hand, trickster magic can make the difference between life and death in difficult situations. Trickster can lie to entire enemy tribes and be believed, he can strike a blade through the toughest magical armour as if it wasn't there, he can sneak into enemy camps and take back stolen property without the need to risk the lives of warriors, he can confuse and deceive chaos with his illusions.

I suspect tricksters would be treated very harshly in Prax, frequently kicked for their outrages. But not necessarily killed - because that 1% of time they save the tribe is almost worth the 99% of time when they are useless troublemakers.

[Hteph]

Also the role of Trickster is to upset complacency, to induce fear of the unknown and poke hole in the hubris, so that you are prepared when the unexpected arrives at your door.

Sooo ... the Trickster made all your beer go sour the day before the drunken orgy and in the search for him you come upon the Krjaki hidden under the midden waiting to despoil your fertility rite. Coincidence? Maaaaabbyyyyy.....

The Imp may be known for all its bad stuff, just because the good consequences are in the long term, two steps removed from the actual short term damage.

Perhaps it is just to poke and test vigilance in preparedness for the “real” problems to arrive, to find the weakest link before it bursts in a more dire situation.

So I would gather “harmless” curses and annoying damage and hurts is actually for your best, but in difference to Orlanthi culture where Erumal has been internalized (and weaponized), in the Wastes the trickster role is more outsider and enemy-like.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

14 hours ago, Hteph said:

Perhaps it is just to poke and test vigilance in preparedness for the “real” problems to arrive, to find the weakest link before it bursts in a more dire situation.

There has been no indication that trickster is some early warning system, or, "oh he's a nice guy really, you just have to see through his funny ways". Trickster is one step away from being chaotic because he's almost utterly unpredictable, just like ZZ is one step away because he's almost utterly evil.

[EricW]

22 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

There has been no indication that trickster is some early warning system, or, "oh he's a nice guy really, you just have to see through his funny ways". Trickster is one step away from being chaotic because he's almost utterly unpredictable, just like ZZ is one step away because he's almost utterly evil.

Yet Trickster is an essential component of Glorantha. He defeated chaos on the LBQ, making Canis Chaos regurgitate the other lightbringers, and his unique magic helped the other lightbringers pass the No Man Plains and other odd challenges.

So it’s difficult to argue Trickster has no role in keeping people safe from chaos, even if he has to be given a good kick from time to time to stay focused.

[Hteph]

On 12/13/2020 at 1:02 AM, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

There has been no indication that trickster is some early warning system, or, "oh he's a nice guy really, you just have to see through his funny ways". Trickster is one step away from being chaotic because he's almost utterly unpredictable, just like ZZ is one step away because he's almost utterly evil.

I’m not an fond of the Trickster as a source random Evil stuff without context, that is what has polluted the Loki myth. To me the Trickster is a role of dissolving fixations, balancing, and unexpected revelation (pain is an excellent teacher). That Trickster stuff may seem evil and senseless for those who are at the receiving end and get none of the benefits is true, but here I think we should take a more ... holistic view and try to discern why and how on a higher level.

I would also say that saying Trickster is one step from (Gloranthan) Chaos is fundamentally wrong (and tell that about ZZ to a Troll to her face and you will have a fun time).

[EricW]

23 hours ago, Hteph said:

I would also say that saying Trickster is one step from (Gloranthan) Chaos is fundamentally wrong (and tell that about ZZ to a Troll to her face and you will have a fun time).

I know I said Trickster is part of Glorantha's defence against chaos, but there is an exception. 

A great enough concentration of Tricksters in one place would be difficult to distinguish from chaos.

Consider the God Learner Trickster temple in Slontos, I mean imagine what a Trickster temple with access to all of Trickster's magic would have actually been like? No prohibition against using magic on fellow tricksters, and access to an unimaginable array of strange magics. Everything continuously changing and morphing under the impact of illusion magics augmented by God Learner manipulations. Add to that a little academic rivalry and tension, maybe a few bitter academic feuds (it was a school - of God Learners), and maybe a few unwise experimental hero quests to access Trickster's higher (?) powers.

No wonder the place sank.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 12/15/2020 at 1:44 PM, Hteph said:

I’m not an fond of the Trickster as a source random Evil stuff without context, that is what has polluted the Loki myth. To me the Trickster is a role of dissolving fixations, balancing, and unexpected revelation (pain is an excellent teacher). That Trickster stuff may seem evil and senseless for those who are at the receiving end and get none of the benefits is true, but here I think we should take a more ... holistic view and try to discern why and how on a higher level.

I would also say that saying Trickster is one step from (Gloranthan) Chaos is fundamentally wrong (and tell that about ZZ to a Troll to her face and you will have a fun time).

So Loki was just a hard done by teacher, whose lessons were just misunderstood? 

I wasn't talking about Chaos=Evil or that's not the whole of it. Pure Chaos doesn't have a sentience, a direction, a will. It's not trying to destroy Glorantha out of spite or malice, it's not Trying to destroy it at all.

Telling a ZZ troll he's one step away from Chaos is effectively telling a serial killer they're evil, you won't like the result, but both statements are true.

 

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 12/13/2020 at 10:24 PM, EricW said:

Yet Trickster is an essential component of Glorantha. He defeated chaos on the LBQ, making Canis Chaos regurgitate the other lightbringers, and his unique magic helped the other lightbringers pass the No Man Plains and other odd challenges.

So it’s difficult to argue Trickster has no role in keeping people safe from chaos, even if he has to be given a good kick from time to time to stay focused.

He's forced into it and does it because it's the only way to save his skin.
 I'll repeat it again Chaos does not = evil, though its emanations into Glorantha are. I'm not saying Eurmal is evil any more than a tiger is. What do Eurmal and ZZ have in common, the Disorder Rune. If that helps. 

[EricW]

37 minutes ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

He's forced into it and does it because it's the only way to save his skin.
 I'll repeat it again Chaos does not = evil, though its emanations into Glorantha are. I'm not saying Eurmal is evil any more than a tiger is. What do Eurmal and ZZ have in common, the Disorder Rune. If that helps. 

Yet the LBQ would have failed without Eurmal. And ZZ helped fight chaos during the Greater Darkness. Regardless of motivation they are essential.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 12/19/2020 at 12:31 AM, EricW said:

Yet the LBQ would have failed without Eurmal. And ZZ helped fight chaos during the Greater Darkness. Regardless of motivation they are essential.

Eurmal? Absolutely. ZZ? I really can't remember if he was one of the deities listed in the Companion as vital, I'm not sure he is, lots of deities fought. I know Stormbull is vital and He does a better job.

[EricW]

5 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Eurmal? Absolutely. ZZ? I really can't remember if he was one of the deities listed in the Companion as vital, I'm not sure he is, lots of deities fought. I know Stormbull is vital and He does a better job.

Cults of Prax says "He was instrumental in halting the festering growth of evil before the return of the Sun.". I accept though that if ZZ had fallen someone else might have stepped forward.