CLASSIC FANTASY - A Return to the Dawn of Roleplaying

[Agentorange]

Indeed yes, I have them. I'm saying there's a huge variety of monsters out there that could be adapted for Classic Fantasy...think of the possibilities !

[dragonewt]

Might I suggest one more name-change? Medusa to Gorgon

I agree with this recommendation. Medusa is the name of one of the gorgons.

I find that there are plenty of cases where Gygax thought he was being clever but was really showing a degree of arrogant naivety. This is the dark side of D&D, where players were mis-educated at the same time it was implied that something (myth, knowledge, etc...) was being accurately presented.

Yes, myth varies and is open to change, however the D&D gorgon/medusa name swap was an obviously deliberate and naive change. The name "gorgon" was possibly used to represent a bull-type creature, however, the gorgon/medusa representation in the original Monster Manual is an inaccurate solution. In fact I can't find any gorgon/bull references (in ancient myth), and so that connection is possibly a complete fallacy.

Edited August 19, 2010 by dragonewt

[GianniVacca]

In fact I can't find any gorgon/bull references (in ancient myth), and so that connection is possibly a complete fallacy.

I think so.

I understand the aim of Classic Fantasy is to emulate the fun years of early gaming, but I still think Gygax's errors should be corrected. I say re-name the medusa race "gorgon", and drop the bull-like creature.

[NickMiddleton]

I think so.

I understand the aim of Classic Fantasy is to emulate the fun years of early gaming, but I still think Gygax's errors should be corrected. I say re-name the medusa race "gorgon", and drop the bull-like creature.

The name is a trivial detail. The bull like creature with petrifying breath however MUST stay - it, along with Rust-monsters, Owlbears, Bullettes etc are part of the unique charm of Gygaxian D&D. To be honest, more of that sort of stuff and fewer of the needless re-skins of "nasty humanoids" (Bugbears, Gnolls, Goblins, Hobgoblins AND Orcs?) that D&D's obsessed with would be a better idea IMO...

Cheers,

Nick

[dragonewt]

The bull like creature with petrifying breath however MUST stay - it, along with Rust-monsters, Owlbears, Bullettes etc are part of the unique charm of Gygaxian D&D.

I agree with Nick. It is a good idea to capture all the distinctly unique creatures that grew out of the early D&D days that provided some of the original good fun. Keep the bull.

I think a balance can be made that preserves the fun unique memories, yet removes some of the nasty side-effects. How about calling Medusa a "Gorgon", and the Bull something like "Stone Bull" or "Petrifying Bull"?

Reaper Mini's "Brass Bull" also comes to mind.

Here is some more food for thought:

• Catoblepas.
  
• Where did monster manual gorgon come from?
  

Edited August 19, 2010 by dragonewt

[USAFguy]

I suppose you could include the "Red Bull" that bestows flying or haste to the characters!

[Mechashef]

I suppose you could include the "Red Bull" that bestows flying or haste to the characters!

That's a Gloranthan demigod. Red Bull is a subcult of Storm Bull and looks after Sky Bulls. Worshippers can brew a foul concoction made from Sky Bull urine. Drinking that as part of a special ritual provides one benefit to the imbiber. It gives you wings.

[USAFguy]

Why is it that everytime I wash my chariot, a sky bull comes by and drops a steamer? Must be a "cult of reprisa"l thing.

Edited September 1, 2010 by USAFguy

[USAFguy]

Well 3D6, what's the status of the next installment of the Classic Fantasy series? Hope I can buy it soon!

[wbcreighton]

You need to join the Yahoo group to get the inside scoop and previews of CFII :

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/brpclassicfantasy/

[threedeesix]

I have stopped trying to predict it to be honest. Real life obligations have kind of put it way behind schedule. Rest assured that it is being worked on every week and progress is being made, but my latest hope that it would be ready in October (1 year after volume I) have fallen by the wayside.

Rod

[b-dog]

One thing I would love to see would be some dark fantasy elements for Classic Fantasy. I really loved Stormbringer/Elric! and something along the lines of the adventures in those books would really interest me. Pan Tang and the Melniboneans were truly awesome.

[PhilHibbs]

So has the D&D system of hit points and saving rolls going up as a character progresses not made it into CF? I have had a flick though and can't see anything like that. Total Hit Points are double what they used to be in RQ3, but that's for all characters (and monsters) from the start. How can a high-level CF character wade through a horde of hundreds of low-level orcs in the same way that a 10th level fighter can?

[threedeesix]

So has the D&D system of hit points and saving rolls going up as a character progresses not made it into CF? I have had a flick though and can't see anything like that. Total Hit Points are double what they used to be in RQ3, but that's for all characters (and monsters) from the start. How can a high-level CF character wade through a horde of hundreds of low-level orcs in the same way that a 10th level fighter can?

Hi Phil,

Classic Fantasy does not allow for increased hit points as the characters get more powerful. Instead, they get double hit points using the Total Hit Point method as you pointed out. However, monsters do not, only the player characters. This gives them a "small" edge at the beginning. What really keeps them alive during later campaigns is their ability to Parry and Dodge. I'll be honest, I never playtested a battle with "hundreds of low level orcs" as that type of battle would generally bore me to tears. Seeing my player characters in action however, I believe that would prevail as they have very high skills now and some serious spell casting potentional. See my write-up of their battle against the giants a little ways back in the thread.

Thanks for your interest,

Rod

[frogspawner]

So has the D&D system of hit points and saving rolls going up as a character progresses not made it into CF?

Nope - and rightly not.

How can a high-level CF character wade through a horde of hundreds...?

With heroic bravery, clever tactics, skill and luck - not by being a bullying 'sack of *hits', like in D&D.

[ragr]

Nope - and rightly not.

With heroic bravery, clever tactics, skill and luck - not by being a bullying 'sack of *hits', like in D&D.

Hammer hits nail square on head.

[Jarulf]

Something that would be fun is a set of soloquest adventures for CF (or BRP in general). I don't have a group to play with with, I do play a lot on various forums but sometimes it's nice to sit down with a fistfull of dice and a sheet of paper too.

And before someone shouts "Mythic", I can't quite make it work for me.

[ragr]

There are some solo RQ adventures at DriveThruRPG in the er.......RQ section. One's called A Trip To The Priory and there are two follow ups, Shadows Over Aralem and Down Among The Dead. There's also Firerock Pass by the same company (Auxo Ltd). Can't speak as to quality, just happened to notice them yesterday while browsing.

[SDLeary]

Keep an eye on eBay and the used game sites like NobleKnight. Sometimes you can find the old cRQ 2 stuff, Scorpion Hall, Snow Brides Queen, etc.

SDLeary

[Jarulf]

I do have the first two MRQ1 solos and will likely get the others as well. They've been pretty fun, but as they are not made for Classic Fantasy (which is what I wanted) there would be some assembly required to use them for that. Not a huge amount of work, but enough to slow play down a bit. With solos you can't really prepare beforehand

Same goes for the old RQ2 Soloquests.

Thanks for the tips though guys.

What I had in the back of my mind was not that threedeesix should make them (he should make the next CF book ), but someone else, perhaps the guys who made the MRQ1 solos. Not sure what sort of complicated deal that would take though.

I'm almost temped to try myself, (probably as a free pdf then) but lack good ideas and skills.

[threedeesix]

I'm almost temped to try myself, (probably as a free pdf then) but lack good ideas and skills.

If you or anyone else is interested in trying something like this, or even a normal adventure, I will be more than willing to help by providing access to what has been done for CF2 in the way of monsters, treasure, etc. I did the same for Rich "Rubble and Ruin" LeDuc for a Classic Fantasy adventure he submitted for Chaosium's Adventure Contest of this year and for some on my Yahoo Group as well.

I only ask that if it isn't going to be an official submission, it at least be made freely avaliable to other fans of Classic Fantasy and BRP in general.

Rod

[Jarulf]

That's very generous.

If I do (which is not very likely) decide on trying to do something, it would be as a free pdf or possibly as a submission for one of the adventure contests.

[rleduc]

If you or anyone else is interested in trying something like this, or even a normal adventure, I will be more than willing to help by providing access to what has been done for CF2 in the way of monsters, treasure, etc. I did the same for Rich "Rubble and Ruin" LeDuc for a Classic Fantasy adventure he submitted for Chaosium's Adventure Contest of this year and for some on my Yahoo Group as well.

I only ask that if it isn't going to be an official submission, it at least be made freely avaliable to other fans of Classic Fantasy and BRP in general.

Rod

I wonder what ever happened to that adventure...(Anyone ever hear about the adventure contest?)

[b-dog]

When is the second book coming out? Also, there needs to be some adventures too. Chaosium makes the best adventures. In Search of the Trollslayers was awesome.

[threedeesix]

When is the second book coming out? Also, there needs to be some adventures too. Chaosium makes the best adventures. In Search of the Trollslayers was awesome.

Book 2 is still a ways off as I have been right out straigyt with real life work. However, the following progress report was posted on my Yahoo Group a little over a month or so ago. It should give you an idea on what has been done, and where it's heading. As always, the following is subject to change.

Classic Fantasy II: Gamemastery - A Progress Report

What follows is a progress report for CF2. I will update it on occasion as additional significant progress is made. Everything listed below is subject to change and revision due to space limitations, but anything removed, will hopefully make an appearance in some future supplement.

Chapter 1: Spot Rules

Abstract Overland Travel (Done)

Characteristic Gain Rolls other than POW (Addendum) (Done)

Characteristic Maximums (Addendum) (Done)

Fate Points (Addendum) (Done)

Keeping the Action Moving (Done)

Nameless Minions (Done)

Noise (Optional) (Done)

Ok, Let Me Try (Done)

Reaction Rolls, Individual and Group (Done)

Small Poisonous Creatures (Done)

Surprise (Done)

Traps (Done, may add more example traps)

Two Weapons (Addendum) (Done)

Chapter 2: Non-Player Characters

Non-Player Character Classes

Anti-Paladin (Done)

Assassin (Done)

Necromancer (To Be Done) Need to touch base with Byron Alexander to be compatible with the Necromancer from his upcoming BRP Necromancy

Witch (Done) A Classic Fantasy version of Byron Alexander's witch from BRP Witchcraft

Dealing With Non-Player Characters

Paying for Services

Hiring Someone to Cast a Spell (Done)

Hiring Someone to Perform a Service (Done)

Couriers (Done)

Hirelings (Done)

Adventurers (Done)

NPC Adventurer Write-Ups

NPC Low Level Anti-Paladin (Done)

NPC Mid Level Anti-Paladin (Done)

NPC High Level Anti-Paladin (Done)

NPC Low Level Assassin (Done)

NPC Mid Level Assassin (Done)

NPC High Level Assassin (Done)

NPC Low Level Barbarian (Done)

NPC Mid Level Barbarian (Done)

NPC High Level Barbarian (Done)

NPC Low Level Bard (Done)

NPC Mid Level Bard (Done)

NPC High Level Bard (Done)

NPC Low Level Cleric (Done)

NPC Mid Level Cleric (Done)

NPC High Level Cleric (Done)

NPC Low Level Druid (Done)

NPC Mid Level Druid (Done)

NPC High Level Druid (Done)

NPC Low Level Fighter (Done)

NPC Mid Level Fighter (Done)

NPC High Level Fighter (Done)

NPC Low Level Illusionist (Done)

NPC Mid Level Illusionist (Done)

NPC High Level Illusionist (Done)

NPC Low Level Magic-User (Done)

NPC Mid Level Magic-User (Done)

NPC High Level Magic-User (Done)

NPC Low Level Monk (Done)

NPC Mid Level Monk (Done)

NPC High Level Monk (Done)

NPC Low Level Necromancer (To Be Done)

NPC Mid Level Necromancer (To Be Done)

NPC High Level Necromancer (To Be Done)

NPC Low Level Paladin (Done)

NPC Mid Level Paladin (Done)

NPC High Level Paladin (Done)

NPC Low Level Ranger (Done)

NPC Mid Level Ranger (Done)

NPC High Level Ranger (Done)

NPC Low Level Thief (Done)

NPC Mid Level Thief (Done)

NPC High Level Thief (Done)

NPC Low Level Witch (To Be Done)

NPC Mid Level Witch (To Be Done)

NPC High Level Witch (To Be Done)

Chapter 3: A Manual of Monsters

Challenging the Party (Undergoing Slight Modification)

Modifying Monsters

Champions (Done)

Leaders (Done)

Chieftains and Boss Monsters (Done)

Text Box: Suitable Monsters from the Basic Roleplaying Core Rule Book (Done)

Manual of Monsters

New and Changed Characteristics

Armor (Done)

Damage Bonus (Done)

Alignment (Done)

Threat Factor (Undergoing Slight Modification)

Number Appearing (Done)

Morale (Done)

Treasure Type (Done)

Ant, Giant (Done)

Basilisk (Done)

Bat, Large (Done)

Bat, Giant (Done)

Bat, Swarm (Done)

Bear, Cave (Done)

Beetle, Giant Bombardier (Done)

Beetle, Giant Boring (Done)

Boar, Normal (Done)

Bore, Giant (Done)

Bugbear (Done)

Cat, House (Done)

Carrion Creeper (Done)

Centipede, Giant (Done)

Creeping Cube (Done)

Displacer Cat (Done)

Doppelganger (Done)

Dragon

Dragon Alignment Variations (Optional) (Done)

Dragons in Combat (Done)

Dragon Breath Weapons (Done)

Dragon Defense (Done)

Dragon Fear (Done)

Dragon Perception (Done)

Sleeping Dragons (Done)

Speaking Dragons (Done)

Spell-Casting Dragons (Done)

Dragon Age and Size (Done)

Black Dragon (Done)

Blue Dragon (Done)

Brass Dragon (Done)

Bronze Dragon (Done)

Copper Dragon (Done)

Gold Dragon (Done)

Green Dragon (Adding Hit Location Table)

Red Dragon (Adding Hit Location Table)

White Dragon (Adding Hit Location Table)

Silver Dragon (Half Done)

Dryad (To Be Done)

Elf, Dark (Done)

Ettin (Done)

Gargoyle (Done)

Ghost (Done)

Gnoll (Done)

Giant

Fighting With Giants (Done)

Giants Bag Contents Table (Done)

Hill Giant (Done)

Fire Giant (Need to add descriptive text and Hit Location Table)

Stone Giant (Need Hit Location Table)

Cloud Giant (Need to add descriptive text and Hit Location Table)

Storm Giant (Need to add descriptive text and Hit Location Table)

Goblin (Done)

Harpy (To Be Done)

Hobgoblin (Done)

Hyena (To Be Done)

Kobold (Done)

Lich (Done)

Lizard, Giant (To Be Done)

Lizard Man (Done)

Lurker (To Be Done)

Medusa (To Be Done)

Mimic (To Be Done)

Mind Slayer (To Be Done)

Mold, Yellow (To Be Done)

Mule (To Be Done)

Mummy (Half Done)

Naga, Dark (Done)

Naga, Guardian (To Be Done)

Naga, Spirit (To Be Done)

Naga, Water (To Be Done)

Nightmare (To Be Done)

Nymph (To Be Done)

Ocular Tyrant (Done)

Ogre (To Be Done)

Ogre Mage (To Be Done)

Ooze, Grey (To Be Done)

Orc (Done)

Owlbear (Done, to be renamed)

Pixie (To Be Done)

Piercer (Done)

Pseudo-dragon (Done)

Purple Worm (To Be Done)

Rat, Giant (To Be Done)

Rust Monster (To Be Done)

Saber-tooth Tiger (To Be Done)

Shadow (To Be Done)

Shrieking Mushroom (To Be Done)

Skeleton (Done)

Slime, Green (To Be Done)

Small Animal (To Be Done)

Snake, Giant (To Be Done)

Spider, Giant (To Be Done)

Stirge (To Be Done)

Thought Devourer (To Be Done)

Wererat (To Be Done)

Wereboar (To Be Done)

Weretiger (To Be Done)

Werebear (To Be Done)

Wight (To Be Done)

Wolverine (Done)

Wolf, Dire (To Be Done)

Zombie (Done)

Chapter 4: Treasure

Note: This chapter is going through extensive revision. All random tables are being re-written to take into account changes to Threat Factor. However, it is currently 34 pages of 10 point text and contains hundreds(?) of magic items with thousands possible through the use of a "prefix/suffix" system. For example, you could randomly determine that the party has found a magic sword written out as...

"prefix"... sword of... "suffix"

After rolling on the prefix and suffix table, you may discover that the characters have found a "Holy Long Sword of Avenging".

Here are some example prefixes and suffixes.

Holy… : Enchantment Level 10. This prefix may be applied to any weapon making all attacks against summoned or otherwise supernatural beings of evil alignment Easy.

Phasing… : Enchantment Level 10. This prefix may be applied to any weapon and allows it to ignore the armor of the target, natural or otherwise.

Vorpal… : Enchantment Level 15. This prefix may only be applied to a weapon with the bleeding special result, turning it into one of the most sought after in all The Realm, a vorpal blade. Vorpal weapons ignore all armor, and on a Critical Success, automatically strike the head of the target. A nasty combination is a Vorpal Sword of Sharpness, which would ignore armor and automatically sever the head of the target on a Special Success.

… of Avenging: Enchantment Level 5. This suffix may be applied to any weapon, both ranged or melee, and will allow any attack immediately following a successful strike on the user to receive a +20% bonus to Attack skill, assuming the opponent that scored the hit is the target. The attack being avenged needs to have actually hit the user and not have been parried or dodged; however no actual damage needs to have been done. If used against an opponent that has just felled an ally, the attack is Easy.

… of Blinking: Enchantment Level 10. This suffix may be applied to any thrown weapon causing it to blink, phasing into and out of existence on the way to the target. As long as even a small portion of the target is visible when the weapon is fired, the weapon will pass harmlessly through all terrain, obstacles, and even friends and enemies only to materialize upon striking the foe. The attacker must still make a normal roll to hit, and because the weapon materializes just as it reaches the target, armor reduces damage as normal.

Chapter 5: The Realm

The Realm is based on a game world I created years ago and have used it in numerous campaigns from GURPS to D&D and of course BRP. It is very similar to Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Mystara in feel and will only make an appearance in CF2 if space permits, and even then, only as a rough overview for those that lack the time to create a world of their own and are not interested in using and established setting.

As of right now, only a couple of pages have been written and only part of the map has been worked on.

A better use for The Realm setting would be the basis of Classic Fantasy III, and could include several adventures as well.

Edited January 21, 2011 by threedeesix