BRP Ravenloft 2.0

[Chaot]

So, I'm hacking away at Ravenloft again. In this version I stripped out a lot of skills and I'm simplifying a few magic systems. I've changed combat a little bit as well. I also wanted to make the domain backgrounds meaningful though, so a good portion of my character creation document is going to be talking about the domains. 

This is only the first 8 pages and a character sheet. My expanded Domains and Occupations section is almost finished. I'll post them here when they are in a state to be posted. I'm still juggling the which occupations I want in which category.

As always, I appreciate any feedback ya'll might have.

BRP Ravenloft Making Characters rough.pdf BRP Ravenloft Character Sheet rough.pdf

[Lloyd Dupont]

This look like a good start... but a lot is missing, even for character creation!

such as.. what are those dark art point?

are you sure that brawn is the average of str and siz, what kind of creature average 30? not many that's for sure?
you probably mean, the sum!  

and finally we want maps! with creatures or encounters inside!

[Chaot]

Dark Power points are like Allegiance from Elric!. It measures how much of an interest the Dark Powers have taken in an adventurer. Some nasty things can happen when       a character gains too many of them.

Yes, Brawn and Finesse should be averages. I was playing around with a few tables. I guess I put the wrong one into the document!

Creatures and encounters you'll have to wait on. Maps are coming with the expanded Domains, as are expanded occupation information and special abilities. I've also just started on an equipment document that is targeted to the setting. The current document is 58 pages long. Those were the eight I was comfortable with sharing.

 

[Mugen]

Do you plan on using Brawn or Finesse for other things than just determining damage bonus ?

If not, using average instead of the sum is just an unnecessary step.

[Chaot]

Ah yes. Maybe it should be sum. I'll change it.

Here's some more to look at. The layout and the art is all just temporary stuff. I find it helps me when I can doodle on the page.

As always, feedback is appreciated.

BRP Ravenloft Making Characters domains and occupations.pdf

[Chaot]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:02 AM, Lloyd Dupont said:

This look like a good start... but a lot is missing, even for character creation!

such as.. what are those dark art point?

Add this to the second paragraph in the Dark Powers section.

Just know that certain decisions made in game will garner your character Dark Power points. Actions have consequences in the Domains of Dread. Gaining too many Dark Power points attracts the attention of the Dark Powers. This is a dangerous path, for while it may offer up temporary power, the trade off may be your very humanity itself.

 

Also fixed Brawn and Finesse.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Chaot

[Chaot]

I have an issue. I keep going back and forth on whether I want to include a Horror/Madness mechanic in this writeup. I have included one in the past based on Unknown Armies but I found it too intricate for Ravenloft. A simple mechanic like in Cthulhu would be better suited but I don't feel that the Sanity spiral is really thematic for gothic horror/adventure.

I could adapt the one published with the various D&D Ravenloft materials but I find them all to be clunky. Another option is to just run Ravenloft without a Horror/Madness mechanic. Thoughts? Opinions?

[Lloyd Dupont]

My thought is that you don't need any horror mechanic for that game....
You will be fighting hordes of undead (won't you?) it will be very different is you throw a bout of madness every few encounters....

Plus neither D&D (since Ravenloft is a D&D campaign) nor undead / dracula movie take the madness angle, why would you? I mean up to you.. but there is no madness to it.. more like normal fear.. as in.. damn, my health is low, there is like 6 vampires there .. and they regenerate, fly, etc....  No need to add madness, I want to run away perfectly lucidly!  

[Chaot]

I agree and am happy to hear it backed up. These games seem to play out like a mixture of Hammer Horror, Fearless Vampire Slayers and Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter. If there was a madness system that worked well with that mix I would jump at it. Everything I've tried so far hasn't really worked well and I've been relatively happy with the normal fear that you mention in your post.

3 hours ago, Lloyd Dupont said:

Plus neither D&D (since Ravenloft is a D&D campaign) nor undead / dracula movie take the madness angle, why would you?

D&D had a Fear, Horror, Madness check that was save v. paralyzation with a Wisdom modifier. If it was a fear check you just dropped what you had and ran. Horror checks had, like, six possible reactions to the situation. Madness would give you a chance for mental afflictions. It wasn't a particularly good system, but it was there.

I'm relatively happy with the stuff I've posted so far. Next up is my take on the various power systems. They are in various states of completion. I will probably post Mesmerism stuff and Curses next.

 

[Armchair Gamer]

Madness shows up primarily in integration with psychic/psionic powers, so it can be easily left out if you don't want to use them. The 'Dead Calm' psychic ability in the BGB is a nifty way to translate a Ravenloft-specific benefit given to psionicists in 2E's [i]Domains of Dread[/i], though (the ability to burn PSPs to avoid a failed madness check).

[Chaot]

5 hours ago, Armchair Gamer said:

Madness shows up primarily in integration with psychic/psionic powers, so it can be easily left out if you don't want to use them. 

Hey AG! Long time.

Yeah, as opposed to something like Cthulhu where you are going to have multiple characters dip into insanity, I think I'd rather keep madness as a special case. I think I'd prefer madness to be the result of magic, a curse, the intervention of the Dark Powers, a trip to Vechor, a glamour from the fey in the shadowfell, stuff like that. I agree something like Dead Calm is a great approach to managing madness. I should probably work that into the Mesmerism ability.  

[TheTallTom]

I know it's been a couple of years but just wanted you to know that this all looks great and if you offer any other resources I'd be really excited to seem them.

[Chaot]

Thank you for the kind words! I have stuff in various states of completion right now. I haven't been running a game in Ravenloft so I only pick up the documents every once and a while.

My big push right now is the powers systems. I'm trying to find a happy medium of being streamlined, fitting the setting, and having different systems work slightly differently. 

The basic powers system break down into three categories. Mind Stuff, Magic Stuff, Weird Science Stuff. Then there's a separate Dark Powers Stuff that players don't have much control over. These systems will work fairly similarly so you're not going to have to remember a bunch of crazy rules. There will be a few differences though.

Those categories are broken into stuff like Mentalism/Mesmerism, Spiritualism/Summoning/Binding, Charms/Fetishes/Potions, Ritual Magic/Sorcery/Witch Craft, Miracles/Curses, etc. But it will ultimately look more like grouping 'spell/ability lists' by genre with a bit of overlap.

I'll see what I have that's presentable and maybe update my documents here.

[TheTallTom]

That's really exciting. I remember an old Dragon magazine article which offered proficiencies for Red Death like mesmerism which I thought was a very cool and straight forward way of bringing magic in to a low-magic setting. I am also very excited to see that you are considering Dark Powers as a core aspect of the setting. It's one of the aspects which most appeals to me, but always seemed cumbersome and haphazard in practice.

[Chaot]

Well, thanks. The fact that you're excited about it makes me want to work on it more. The goal is for these power systems to have a trade off. Like Mentalism. The character has trained their brain to an insane degree so as to be able to effect the world through sheer mental power. But this takes a toll on the person's body. Benign things have a minor effect on you; nausea, headaches, a few lost hit points. Major feats of Mentalism should come with the possibility of death if the character pushes too far.

Mesmerism is its own problem. It falls under the rules of Mentalism but even benign acts of mesmerism involves taking away a part of the subject's free will. This is definitely dark powers territory.

I don't go for the whole new 'the Vestiges are Dark Powers' thing that the new edition has. The vestiges are tools of the dark powers but the dark powers permeate the domains. They are far more than singular enemies with a singular personality that you bargain with. The main focus of the dark powers is temptation and corruption. I have a simple tally system to show how much the dark powers have taken an influence in a character. Blessings, boons, miracles and curses all fall within the dark power's domain. They specifically look to exploit character weakness to ensnare them in whatever cosmic game the dark powers are playing.

In the old literature, innocence was something that could stand against the dark powers. I've adapted this into something that I call Fortune instead. Fortune can be gained by selfless acts and helping people, and by standing against the forces of darkness.

My goal is to provide enough of a structure for the gm to use the dark powers as corrupting influence without being too overtly obvious and also providing enough support so the gm knows what sort of things might happen to a character when the character has attracted the dark powers' attention.

[TheTallTom]

The trade offs sound great - like casting a spell in Call of Cthulhu there should always be a cost (in that case SAN or POW) for using supernatural abilities in a horror game, I reckon.

I like Curse of Strahd for the most part, but the Vestiges are Dark Powers definitely got removed from my play of it! Lost the best part of the original setting for me, the way the land itself corrupts. I gave it my best stab at giving them dark gifts as their actions warranted it but home brewing it in 5e was a challenge, especially in a way that felt like it grew as they did worse things.

Liking the sound of Fortune too. I think for Gothic horror the element of morality is really important and having an easy to implement system to support that would be really helpful.

[g33k]

I'm thinking you should look at RQG's "Passions" mechanics as a way to measure corruption/etc.

In RQG, the GM can call for a "Passion" roll for the player to resist doing something in accord with their Passion.

So give them a "Tempted by the Art of Necromancy" or "Tempted by Blood Magic," or just "Tempted by the Dark Arts"

[Chaot]

On 2/23/2023 at 5:16 AM, TheTallTom said:

I like Curse of Strahd for the most part, but the Vestiges are Dark Powers definitely got removed from my play of it!

I haven't run it but I think it's a great read. I may include some aspect of the vestiges if I ever run it but the idea that they EQUAL the dark powers is just silly to me. You go from this vast, cosmic horror to the vestiges. Just don't like it. I also felt that the soulless was unnecessary too.

Thank you for the vote of confidence on my current plans. Sometimes it's hard for me to decide what plays into the setting and what is a little too indulgent in my own tastes. 

[Chaot]

On 2/25/2023 at 6:57 PM, g33k said:

I'm thinking you should look at RQG's "Passions" mechanics as a way to measure corruption/etc.

You're right, I should look at them again. I'm sightly familiar but it's been a while since I've read it. One thing I don't like about the systems that I've kinda leaned on (Call of Cthulhu and Unknown Armies) is the 'ok, now you're crazy. here's a list of crazy stuff' aspect. I've also looked at Afflictions from Darkest Dungeon as well as some stuff from other random games. But Passions seem to align pretty close to what I'm thinking about.

 

[TheTallTom]

Yeah, the soulless made no sense and were also on the cutting room floor of my campaign. Especially as one of the aspects of the Ravenloft setting I like is the sort of heroic horror, where there's a chance you might win the day and save the people just at a terrible personal cost - why would you strive to save the people of Barovia, or care about their suffering if they are these numb empty husks. It's one of the elements of original 2e Ravenloft I didn't like much - the idea that the mists create people to inhabit a domain they make for a darklord. Far more horrific that the mists hoover up the innocent inhabitants of an entire valley as accessories to the torture of one evil person.

[Armchair Gamer]

The soulless felt like Hickman either recycling early Dragonlance War of Souls ideas or giving vent to his dislike of the 2E/3E setting by really amping up the 'bleak and hopeless' fanon.

And the idea that the Mists create people was largely 'fanon'--a close read of the early material suggests most of the domains are initially populated by a mix of abductees and refugees from adjoining domains who figure "better the devil you don't know."

[Armchair Gamer]

7 hours ago, Chaot said:

You're right, I should look at them again. I'm sightly familiar but it's been a while since I've read it. One thing I don't like about the systems that I've kinda leaned on (Call of Cthulhu and Unknown Armies) is the 'ok, now you're crazy. here's a list of crazy stuff' aspect. I've also looked at Afflictions from Darkest Dungeon as well as some stuff from other random games. But Passions seem to align pretty close to what I'm thinking about.

 

There's a Corruption mechanic in the Mythras Companion that hooks into the Passions and merits a closer read.

[Chaot]

I will take a look at that too, Thanks AG. I might have to do less work than I thought.