Out now: The Red Book of Magic, the ultimate guide to magic in RuneQuest

[DreadDomain 356]

15 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

Really? Does anywhen think that this change actually makes the game more fun to play or fixes something that was causing rules problems. Just another pointless rule that most groups will completely ignore.

 

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

It follows the normal "fumbles are meant to be bad" rule.

Would I use it in a game? Probably only when casting spells on someone else and, even then, only when it's funny.

 

8 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I agree, I think I'd say the RP are spent on a fumble but not permanently.

Hmmm good point. Losing them permanently seems harsh. Just spending them with no effect is punishment enough.

[soltakss 4,930]

12 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

21 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I agree, I think I'd say the RP are spent on a fumble but not permanently.

Hmmm good point. Losing them permanently seems harsh. Just spending them with no effect is punishment enough.

I always find it funny when games designers are asked for explicit clarification on exactly how the rules for something should work, because the current rules are unclear, then when they clarify it people say they won't follow their clarifications.

Of course, I am in a different boat, as I just use the rules as guidelines, using what I like and changing what I don't like.

[Russ Massey 35]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

I always find it funny when games designers are asked for explicit clarification on exactly how the rules for something should work, because the current rules are unclear, then when they clarify it people say they won't follow their clarifications.

Of course, I am in a different boat, as I just use the rules as guidelines, using what I like and changing what I don't like.

No clarification was needed. On the core book on page 314 it tells you how to cast a rune magic. It tells you there is a bonus for making a critical roll  and it tells you that for a fumble the spell does not take effect and the rune points are lost. Changing this to a permanent loss is not a clarification - it is a change to the original rules.

[Paid a bod yn dwp 388]

1 hour ago, Russ Massey said:

Changing this to a permanent loss is not a clarification - it is a change to the original rules.

That’s just clarifying what already happens with one-use spells (at least by the RBM clarification) Looks to me that It’s just following the One-Use ruling, that all spent rune points are lost permanently.

I guess (no book to hand at the moment) that standard rune magic just looses the rune point on a fumble, but is recoverable at a worship ceremony? 

Edited January 10 by Paid a bod yn dwp

[Baron Wulfraed 42]

Main book, page 314

5 hours ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

That’s just clarifying what already happens with one-use spells (at least by the RBM clarification) Looks to me that It’s just following the One-Use ruling, that all spent rune points are lost permanently.

I guess (no book to hand at the moment) that standard rune magic just looses the rune point on a fumble, but is recoverable at a worship ceremony? 

Given that page 314 states for a non-fumble failure (hmm, no way to insert a quote block?)

"""
If the casting success roll is greater than the adventurer’s relevant Rune affinity, the spell is not cast, and there is no Rune point loss. If the adventurer is boosting the spell with additional magic points, they lose 1 magic point (no matter how many are being spent). On a fumble, the spell fails and the adventurer loses the Rune points intended for the spell.
"""

"""
Once spent, Rune points must be replenished before they can be used again.
"""

It would seem rather punitive to have a permanent loss on a fumble when plain failure essentially has no effect at all. Permanent loss might make sense if a failure resulted in the (recoverable) loss of the RPs -- as if the spell had succeeded -- but with no spell effect taking place.

Including the success categories, I see four levels of cost here:

• Critical Success: spell succeeds, NO RP COST (spell is free)
• Normal Success: spell succeeds, at REGULAR RP COST (recoverable via worship)
• Normal Failure: spell does not go off, NO RP COST (absolutely nothing happens)
• Fumble: spell does not go off, at REGULAR RP COST (ie; recoverable via worship)

In contrast to the second quote above, the RBoM, page 9, on one-use spells explicitly states

"""
The Rune points used to cast spells designated as ‘one-use’ in the Rune spell or cult descriptions cannot be replenished.
"""

The four levels of cost for one-use spells (still page 9) come out to be

• Critical Success: spell succeeds, NO RP COST (spell is free)
• Normal Success: spell succeeds, at PERMANENT RP COST (not recoverable)
• Normal Failure: spell does not go off, NO RP COST (absolutely nothing happens)
• Fumble: spell does not go off, at PERMANENT RP COST (not recoverable)

Note the symmetry between one-use and reusable spells: 0 RP, x RP, 0 RP, x RP. The difference is that one-use spells have permanent RP loss while reusable spells have recoverable RP loss.

 

[Bill the barbarian 1,990]

1 hour ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Given that page 314 states for a non-fumble failure (hmm, no way to insert a quote block?)

 

Do you mean like this

Quote

All you need is love, love is all you really need.

The Beatles

To do that simply type or paste an item you will be placing in a “quote block” and choose this icon from above..

.or did I miss your point? If so, sorry.

Edited January 10 by Bill the barbarian

[PhilHibbs 1,727]

47 minutes ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

In contrast to the second quote above, the RBoM, page 9, on one-use spells explicitly states

"""
The Rune points used to cast spells designated as ‘one-use’ in the Rune spell or cult descriptions cannot be replenished.
"""

I don't get what that is supposed to be a contrast to.

[DreadDomain 356]

1 hour ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Including the success categories, I see four levels of cost here:

• Critical Success: spell succeeds, NO RP COST (spell is free)
• Normal Success: spell succeeds, at REGULAR RP COST (recoverable via worship)
• Normal Failure: spell does not go off, NO RP COST (absolutely nothing happens)
• Fumble: spell does not go off, at REGULAR RP COST (ie; recoverable via worship)

[snip] One-Use spell

1 hour ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

The four levels of cost for one-use spells (still page 9) come out to be

• Critical Success: spell succeeds, NO RP COST (spell is free)
• Normal Success: spell succeeds, at PERMANENT RP COST (not recoverable)
• Normal Failure: spell does not go off, NO RP COST (absolutely nothing happens)
• Fumble: spell does not go off, at PERMANENT RP COST (not recoverable)

Note the symmetry between one-use and reusable spells: 0 RP, x RP, 0 RP, x RP. The difference is that one-use spells have permanent RP loss while reusable spells have recoverable RP loss.

 

I add not seen it that way. For one use spells the jump of consequence between failure (nothing) and fumble (permanent loss of RP) looks harsh but when you put it that way... I like the symmetry. 

[Paid a bod yn dwp 388]

1 hour ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Main book, page 314

Given that page 314 states for a non-fumble failure (hmm, no way to insert a quote block?)

"""
If the casting success roll is greater than the adventurer’s relevant Rune affinity, the spell is not cast, and there is no Rune point loss. If the adventurer is boosting the spell with additional magic points, they lose 1 magic point (no matter how many are being spent). On a fumble, the spell fails and the adventurer loses the Rune points intended for the spell.
"""

"""
Once spent, Rune points must be replenished before they can be used again.
"""

It would seem rather punitive to have a permanent loss on a fumble when plain failure essentially has no effect at all. Permanent loss might make sense if a failure resulted in the (recoverable) loss of the RPs -- as if the spell had succeeded -- but with no spell effect taking place.

Including the success categories, I see four levels of cost here:

• Critical Success: spell succeeds, NO RP COST (spell is free)
• Normal Success: spell succeeds, at REGULAR RP COST (recoverable via worship)
• Normal Failure: spell does not go off, NO RP COST (absolutely nothing happens)
• Fumble: spell does not go off, at REGULAR RP COST (ie; recoverable via worship)

In contrast to the second quote above, the RBoM, page 9, on one-use spells explicitly states

"""
The Rune points used to cast spells designated as ‘one-use’ in the Rune spell or cult descriptions cannot be replenished.
"""

The four levels of cost for one-use spells (still page 9) come out to be

• Critical Success: spell succeeds, NO RP COST (spell is free)
• Normal Success: spell succeeds, at PERMANENT RP COST (not recoverable)
• Normal Failure: spell does not go off, NO RP COST (absolutely nothing happens)
• Fumble: spell does not go off, at PERMANENT RP COST (not recoverable)

Note the symmetry between one-use and reusable spells: 0 RP, x RP, 0 RP, x RP. The difference is that one-use spells have permanent RP loss while reusable spells have recoverable RP loss.

 

Yes agree. That’s the point I was making. The rules aren’t unduly punishing One-use spells on a fumble, It’s just that the defining aspect of one-use spell is that the rune points are spent permanently when casting, and by extension fumbling.

[Baron Wulfraed 42]

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Do you mean like this

The Beatles

To do that simply type or paste an item you will be placing in a “quote block” and choose this icon from above..

.or did I miss your point? If so, sorry.

I don't HAVE that icon, nor strike through, font and size options... (and I seem to be getting duplicate images)

Edited January 11 by Baron Wulfraed

[Baron Wulfraed 42]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't get what that is supposed to be a contrast to.

The primary book comment about for reusable spells, that RPs "must be replenished".

[Baron Wulfraed 42]

26 minutes ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

I don't HAVE that icon, nor strike through, font and size options... (and I seem to be getting duplicate images)

 

Hmmm... The site seems to be very picky about browser...

• Internet Explorer won't even show me a log-in option.
• Firefox (84.0.2) (my preferred browser) is not showing half the editing icons. (And that was even before restarting it so the latest update got applied; along with rebooting the computer)
• M$ Edge, OTOH, allowed for log-in, and is showing the full editing toolbar.

Interestingly "Firefox ESR" (78.6.1esr) running under Debian Buster in a VirtualBox environment DOES show me the full editing toolbar.

"The Fountain Pen Network" is a site also using "Invision Community" and it shows a two line editing toolbar in Firefox.

[Joerg 4,446]

3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Hmmm... The site seems to be very picky about browser...

On my browsers it is a question of window width whether I get the mobile device view or the wide browser view.. (Mozilla, Chrome)

[lordabdul 1,587]

4 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

Firefox (84.0.2) (my preferred browser) is not showing half the editing icons.

You should take this troubleshooting into another forum (Alastor's Skull Inn is good for this kind of meta stuff), but I'm using Firefox and have no problem. Maybe resize the window wider?

Edited January 11 by lordabdul

[PhilHibbs 1,727]

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't get what that is supposed to be a contrast to.

8 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said:

The primary book comment about for reusable spells, that RPs "must be replenished".

Still not getting it. Specifically, what is the contradiction?

[kirinyaga 56]

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

On my browsers it is a question of window width whether I get the mobile device view or the wide browser view.. (Mozilla, Chrome)

same here

[Baron Wulfraed 42]

11 hours ago, lordabdul said:

You should take this troubleshooting into another forum (Alastor's Skull Inn is good for this kind of meta stuff), but I'm using Firefox and have no problem. Maybe resize the window wider?

Last comment -- it seems to be the presence of that sidebar killing me. Forums without it have edit windows wide enough for full edit bar. (I really don't like running with near maximized application windows, and had to drag the browser almost an inch wider to get the full bar here -- I don't "live" in the browser, I have email and usenet clients open at the same time).

[moonwolf8 4]

So the Red Book of Magic covers Rune and Spirit magic.  Can we look forward to a Blue Book of Magic to cover Sorcery and Siddahs or whatever it is your calling Mystic Magic?

[Glorion 100]

Question! I have a Yelornan with Shooting Star. When it says in the Red Book that "armor
protects against this damage but magical resistance does not apply," does that only mean that it ignores Countermagic, or does it also means it ignores magical resistance such as the Protection spell?

[Rodney Dangerduck 318]

On 1/15/2021 at 4:13 PM, Glorion said:

Question! I have a Yelornan with Shooting Star

And, as a follow-up.  You cast Shooting Star and carefully place that arrow into a specially marked quiver.  Tomorrow is your holy day.  What happens?

[Rodney Dangerduck 318]

On 1/17/2021 at 6:44 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

And, as a follow-up.  You cast Shooting Star and carefully place that arrow into a specially marked quiver.  Tomorrow is your holy day.  What happens?

For the record, this was answered in another thread.  The intent is that the arrow should be used immediately.  So the arrow in the specially marked quiver is just a normal arrow.