Purchasing magical items?

[tnli]

2 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

sounds like something from modern times. In ye olden days the loser would recieve their dead naked or in their undershirts as even clothing was valuable as loot.

Also consider that returning any gear to the enemy can needlessly prolong the war

A truce to collect the dead is described in the Iliad. 

[Kloster]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just on the topic of getting NPCs to donate their POW - what would the actual player (PC) say to them? I don't think it should be as meta-gamey as "I'd like you to give me some of your POW"...

I would say something like "Do you accept to participate in my enchant activities if I give you 10 cows in exchange? It would engage you to act as if you wanted to worship Orlanth to learn a spell from me. You would receive the cows instead of the spell.".

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

sounds like something from modern times. In ye olden days the loser would recieve their dead naked or in their undershirts as even clothing was valuable as loot.

In fact, this is very 'bronze age'. You can find truce for recovering dead bodies and other things in Homer and some egyptian writing (I think I read something like that in a book about the battle of Kadesh).

2 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

Also consider that returning any gear to the enemy can needlessly prolong the war

If it is a sacred activity, you don't care. Illyad describes a 10 years war, and greeks accepted an extra length of war if it allowed them to recover the dead bodies and perform the rituals.

[coffeemancer]

30 minutes ago, tnli said:

A truce to collect the dead is described in the Iliad. 

does it say that they got all their gear back? or does it mention  just one heroic trojan having his arms returned with him?

[Kloster]

7 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

does it say that they got all their gear back? or does it mention  just one heroic trojan having his arms returned with him?

From memory, Homer doesn't wrote about the rank and files, but only of the heroes, whatever the side, but they were recovered with their stuff (armor, weapons and regalia).

Hector's funerals lasted several days, during which a truce was in place. For Achilles's ones, games were organized, and Achilles's armor has been disputed between Odysseus and Ajax, meaning it had been recovered with the body. His spear has also been recovered and was brought to Athena's temple.

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

sounds like something from modern times. In ye olden days the loser would recieve their dead naked or in their undershirts as even clothing was valuable as loot.

They definitely had them in medieval times. 

The Trojan War tells of both sides asking to retrieve their fallen and of the consequences of dishonoring the dead, so I can see it being applicable to Glorantha.

3 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

Also consider that returning any gear to the enemy can needlessly prolong the war

Maybe, but that is one of the consequences of acting with honour.

[coffeemancer]

35 minutes ago, soltakss said:

They definitely had them in medieval times. 

The Trojan War tells of both sides asking to retrieve their fallen and of the consequences of dishonoring the dead, so I can see it being applicable to Glorantha.

Maybe, but that is one of the consequences of acting with honour.

they also looted the dead like it was going out of style in medieval times.

ironically, the norse didnt like looting weapons because they considered them unlucky.

and we have evidence of HEAPS of weapons looted by them.

 

Basically, half the reason to go to war is to loot. I dont see a warlord who makes a habit of giving loot back to the enemy having many friends in the long run.

[Godlearner]

18 minutes ago, coffeemancer said:

Basically, half the reason to go to war is to loot. I dont see a warlord who makes a habit of giving loot back to the enemy having many friends in the long run.

We had a character who named his brother Loot, and he was always looking for him. No stone went unturned in search of Loot .... and so on.

[French Desperate WindChild]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

From memory, Homer doesn't wrote about the rank and files, but only of the heroes, whatever the side, but they were recovered with their stuff (armor, weapons and regalia).

Hector's funerals lasted several days, during which a truce was in place. For Achilles's ones, games were organized, and Achilles's armor has been disputed between Odysseus and Ajax, meaning it had been recovered with the body. His spear has also been recovered and was brought to Athena's temple.

I have the same memory, and here can be an issue for me to use it as evidence for "normal" fighters

the nobles are the decision makers during and after the battles

the nobles want to get back there kin so they allow the nobles from opposite side to get back there kin when then win, expecting the same when they lose.

but what about the unknown people ? do they have any intersest for anyone ?

the dead give two things :  money from their weapons, disease from their bodies. so get the weapon and let the losers manage the body

I may be cynical of course.

And my point is only for earth;

the gloranthan gods may have defined some sacred activities or non activities (don't touch the weapon of an honourable orlanthi if you are an honourable orlanthi for example, do what you want if you are sotrm bull, the dead don't need the weapon, you do)

[Kloster]

I think this should be purely cultural and depends mostly on the cults. I don't think we have much info on the subject in any RQ supplement. Perhaps is it better to ask the question on the Glorantha forum.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

Perhaps is it better to ask the question on the Glorantha forum.

I don't think so, magic items are a game mechanical representation and so are appropriately dealt with in a game system forum. The economics of magical items in RuneQuest are very different to HQ or 13G or KoDP.

Edited January 3, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Kloster]

19 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't think so, magic items are a game mechanical representation and so are appropriately dealt with in a game system forum. The economics of magical items in RuneQuest are very different to HQ or 13G or KoDP.

I agree with you but the last question (the one I was answering) was about loitering corpses after a battle.

[Shiningbrow]

7 hours ago, Kloster said:

I think this should be purely cultural and depends mostly on the cults. I don't think we have much info on the subject in any RQ supplement. Perhaps is it better to ask the question on the Glorantha forum.

I think it's cultural as well...

Orlanthi will probably loot - unless it's against Chaos. They'd especially love against Dara Happans, because the DH love their gold! Exceptions may be the Humakti, who do the honour thing. Or anyone else with a high honour passion.

In general, mercenaries (and pirates) will always loot, and they expect to be allowed to! The only exceptions may be Yelmalians (who expect to get paid well for their services before fighting).

Praxians will probably loot, because Prax is hard, and you take what you can get!

Lunars - probably depends where from.

 

Obviously, these are all just my mere opinion!

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

On 12/28/2020 at 12:02 PM, Ludovic aka Lordabdul said:

FWIW I think that the argument of not "wasting POW that the Wyter needs" is good, but I'm not convinced that it has much weight on the scale of a clan. There would only be, what, a dozen people capable of doing enchantments in a clan? (Rune Level people who actually picked the Enchantment spells) And maybe only a handful that actually do make any item on a given season? I mean: unless they make it their business (which is possible, but the clan has more need for priests and warriors AFAICT), I'm not sure a given clan needs new magical items very often (for replacing lost/broken items previously given to thanes, as gifts for an upcoming important negotiation, as an item of power for an upcoming clan celebration, etc.) So even if these enchanters grab a total of a handful of people to get their POW any season, I don't think that impacts the overall clan wyter's worship economy much?

Of course, if your Glorantha involves clans with dozens of enchanters with long backorders of magical items, the argument becomes a lot more potent, but then I'm getting curious: what are these enchanters up to? Do they belong to a clan that is known for its export in magical items? Or do all clans use magical item export as a revenue stream? What cool unique gaming opportunities could there be in such Gloranthas?

 

I think an interesting possibility is that clans and tribes spend most of their excess POW on a stockpile of magical weapons for use in defense against existential threats. The reason this wouldn’t come up more is because the clan/tribe wouldn’t risk these reserves of power built up over generations outside of defending their stronghold or other truly desperate circumstances.

Edited May 16, 2022 by FlamingCatOfDeath
Grammar

[SevenSistersOfVinga]

On 12/17/2020 at 1:38 PM, Brootse said:

Broadsword with a Bladesharp 2 matrix: Sword 50L + Bladesharp 2 150L (half price if from a cult) + Spell matrix POW cost 400L = 600L.

Enchants are spells too, that have costs, spells only accessible to runelords/priests. 

If they have to spend at least one point on the enchant I'm sure a runelord pow point is worth a lot more than a beggars. 

I find that paying a npc for an enchant is always easy but ask any player if they are willing to exchange their own pow for money and nobody will agree. 

[Squaredeal Sten]

19 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

 

Double post. Sorry. Please remove.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Squaredeal Sten

[Joerg]

On 5/16/2022 at 12:17 PM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

 

I think an interesting possibility is that clans and tribes spend most of their excess POW on a stockpile of magical weapons for use in defense against existential threats. The reason this wouldn’t come up more is because the clan/tribe wouldn’t risk these reserves of power built up over generations outside of defending their stronghold or other truly desperate circumstances.

That overlooks the possibility of creating enchantments that aid the community (clan or otherwise) in remaining wealthy (or just fed properly). Rune spell matrices to ensure the health and fertility of the people or the herd will result in more and better equipped defenders in case of a raid. An ancestral item holding an insane amount of Bless Pregnancy would create a lineage or two of potential heroes, one each year, who would have been able to invest some of that into the item(s)...

Military use of enchantments includes woad and thunderstones, which may stockpile a little but get used up.

[Kvott]

A priest need to have 18 pow and max is 21. No enchants with more than 3 points are possible, unless you allow collaboration POW. So it should be allowed.

I still would not accept bought pow from outsider. Im no Lunar!! 🙂

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Kvott said:

A priest need to have 18 pow and max is 21. No enchants with more than 3 points are possible, unless you allow collaboration POW. So it should be allowed.

I still would not accept bought pow from outsider. Im no Lunar!! 🙂

It is possible, but point by point (Bladesharp 3 to 4, then 4 to 5, usw).

But you're right that without collaboration, fixed cost spell matrix of more than 3 points would not be possible (but I'm not sure RQG has 4 points or more spirit fixed cost spirit spells).

[Jens]

2 hours ago, Kloster said:

without collaboration, fixed cost spell matrix of more than 3 points would not be possible

Spell Matrix Enchantment explicitly mentions that in addition to increasing variable matrices a point at a time, you can also create other matrices over the course of weeks or even seasons- the matrix just doesn't work until you sacrifice all of the required POW (page 265 core rules). This applies to other types of enchantments as well- you can either collabourate to create them, or just slowly enchant them over time.

[Kloster]

14 hours ago, Jens said:

Spell Matrix Enchantment explicitly mentions that in addition to increasing variable matrices a point at a time, you can also create other matrices over the course of weeks or even seasons- the matrix just doesn't work until you sacrifice all of the required POW (page 265 core rules). This applies to other types of enchantments as well- you can either collabourate to create them, or just slowly enchant them over time.

Well seen. I didn't remember that point.