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Rune spells from allied cults


Godlearner

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On 12/26/2020 at 11:13 PM, soltakss said:

I would go further and allow Shield to be cast with 2 Rune points from Orlanth and 3 Rune points from Storm Bull to get Shield 5 in one casting.

It doesn't hurt anyone or break anything.

And I like high-powered games.

In my book, you can only draw from one RP pool per casting. It's just simpler. Having said that, I don't think what you suggest is broken.

13 hours ago, soltakss said:

Yes, one casting. 

For me, casting Shield 2 and then Shield 3 ends up with Shield 3, as it is the bigger compatible spell.

That is how I see it.

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That's how I ruled using the RQ3 description of stacking divine magic. The text as written in RQG offers the possibility of accumulating such effects - but maybe it takes a "The Arming of ..." ritual to allow multiple castings of such spells to actually stack.

 

I wouldn't allow becoming both Orlanth and Storm Bull in a single casting of rune magic unless it is a heroquesting or illumination insight (in the latter case, the die roll would have to be below the illumination score to succeed).

 

Saying that a Shield 3 replaces a Shield 2 opens a potential can of worms. Can a Shield 2 boosted with 3 MP take effect on someone who has Shield 3? Will that later spell displace the Shield 3, or will it be there until the Shield 3 runs out or is dispelled?

 

Having an idea of the meta-rules of magic affecting people or tools would be nice. Does the extra damage from Bladesharp add to the extra damage from Kargan Tor's Blessing? There is no mention of KTB being incompatible with Bladesharp, or even Fireblade. There is little info on whether the effects stack.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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2 hours ago, Joerg said:

Having an idea of the meta-rules of magic affecting people or tools would be nice. Does the extra damage from Bladesharp add to the extra damage from Kargan Tor's Blessing? There is no mention of KTB being incompatible with Bladesharp, or even Fireblade. There is little info on whether the effects stack.

For me yes, as it has always been the case. As you said: "there is no mention of KTB being incompatible with Bladesharp, or even Fireblade".

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The "Combine RP Or Not" decision can be simplified by answering this question.

If you have a CHA of 20, you can have 20 RP. Per cult. So if you are a member of one cult only, you can cast for example Dismiss Magic 20 at most (barring other tricks like matrices). If you are a member of two cults, and had long enough to max out your RP in both, do you want that person to be able to cast Dismiss Magic 40, whereas someone who has dedicated their entire life purely to one deity can only cast Dismiss Magic 20?

My answer to that is no, I don't want multi-cult worshippers to be able to muster twice as large a spell as single-cult. The greater variety of spells is already a big enough advantage. Your decision may differ.

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12 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

But... They're from two different Rune Point pools... 

And, as per the above posts, one on top of the other usually means only the strongest has effect.

yes I understand your point. but there is something weird :

you can cast protection then (after) you can cast shield and cumulate it with protection.

you can cast shield, then (after) you can cast protection and cumulate it with shield.

 

so we have to opposite ways :

one spell is replaced by the bigger when it is the same

one spell (shield or cousin) can be cumulated with another one  (shield or cousin)

 

there is nothing obvious for me (I changed my view during the last weeks, so I may change, again).

my point is pure gameplay analysis, I may be wrong, that is my "actual" position :

when you follow 1 cult, to obtain shield 5 you have to sacrifice 5 POW

when you follow 2 cults , to obtain shield 5 I consider that you have to sacrifice 5 POW too, in all

 

then I can add a little RP reason too : shield and shield are not the same spell exactly :

Orlanth' protects himself with the shield

Storm bull is protected by Orlanth's shield

same protection, but not exactly the same process so not the same "pray" so not the same "spell"

 

but for sure I will not say anyone is fool to follow "the bigger is the only one".

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

The "Combine RP Or Not" decision can be simplified by answering this question.

If you have a CHA of 20, you can have 20 RP. Per cult. So if you are a member of one cult only, you can cast for example Dismiss Magic 20 at most (barring other tricks like matrices). If you are a member of two cults, and had long enough to max out your RP in both, do you want that person to be able to cast Dismiss Magic 40, whereas someone who has dedicated their entire life purely to one deity can only cast Dismiss Magic 20?

 

I just read this (yes I can have a lot of time to answer) and ... that is so true too...

But... as there are two spells shield 20 + shield 20, you don't have to dismiss 40, dismiss 20 is enough to dispell shield 20 then shield 20, there is nowhere shield 40

 

 

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45 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I just read this (yes I can have a lot of time to answer) and ... that is so true too...

But... as there are two spells shield 20 + shield 20, you don't have to dismiss 40, dismiss 20 is enough to dispell shield 20 then shield 20, there is nowhere shield 40

Well, some people would say that a dual-cult Orlanth and Storm Bull could cast Shield 40, but I didn't want to talk about niche cases so I picked a common stackable spell that any two cults could have. I did not intend to refer to Shield at all.

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7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

My answer to that is no, I don't want multi-cult worshippers to be able to muster twice as large a spell as single-cult. The greater variety of spells is already a big enough advantage. Your decision may differ.

That's a great argument, and I'm almost convinced. The only thing that prevents me from being completely convinced is that... aren't big heroes like Arkat or Argrath especially multi-cult worshippers? Maybe that's how they do what they do.

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1 minute ago, lordabdul said:

That's a great argument, and I'm almost convinced. The only thing that prevents me from being completely convinced is that... aren't big heroes like Arkat or Argrath especially multi-cult worshippers? Maybe that's how they do what they do.

Maybe combining RP pools is an ability that Arkat gained through his cross-path questing.

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the question I have is how many POW a pc is expected to gain during all is life ?

As player I would focus to reach a 5-6 rune pool (first goal : be able to cast several spells) before reaching a POW 18 (second goal, become rune level or any high position). And, after, raising my pool when I gain more POW (third goal, become  Harreck killer).

so that means 6 + (5 seasons x 20 years x 15%) = 21 pow for rune pool(s)

and that means I don't want any enchantment.

so in this way no big difference between one cult pc and multi cult pc

of course I can be lucky or define another strategy : ( not 18 but 14 POW and don't care to have any cult position) or find new way to gain more pow  (heroquesting ?) and it will change the deal

 

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13 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the question I have is how many POW a pc is expected to gain during all is life ?

As player I would focus to reach a 5-6 rune pool (first goal : be able to cast several spells) before reaching a POW 18 (second goal, become rune level or any high position). And, after, raising my pool when I gain more POW (third goal, become  Harreck killer).

so that means 6 + (5 seasons x 20 years x 15%) = 21 pow for rune pool(s)

...

of course I can be lucky or define another strategy : ( not 18 but 14 POW and don't care to have any cult position) or find new way to gain more pow  (heroquesting ?) and it will change the deal

 

Once you hit Rune Master, you get +20% on POW gain rolls... so, minimum of 25% per roll (from 20 to 21), but most likely going to be around 50% (at 15 POW) or more...

Don't forget that that Spirit Magic is POWx5%, so you ideally want that at about 18-19 just to ensure those go off when needed. 14 POW would be crippling for that (only 70%).

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1 minute ago, Shiningbrow said:

Once you hit Rune Master, you get +20% on POW gain rolls... so, minimum of 25% per roll (from 20 to 21), but most likely going to be around 50% (at 15 POW) or more...

Don't forget that that Spirit Magic is POWx5%, so you ideally want that at about 18-19 just to ensure those go off when needed. 14 POW would be crippling for that (only 70%).

yes you are right I miss it, so that means between 35 and 45 pow sacrifice after 20 years of adventures as rune master with an excellent pow (20) or about 50 with a "poor" pow (15)

Hoping the character doesn't need any divine intervention (or any other loss of pow), that means a munchkin will have a very very long term plan to gain advantage of multi cult pc*, at least 6-10 years of adventure.

But there is a probability to face this issue

 

* I consider that starting with several cults means spliting skills and rune pools and not add them

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21 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

My answer to that is no, I don't want multi-cult worshippers to be able to muster twice as large a spell as single-cult. The greater variety of spells is already a big enough advantage. Your decision may differ.

I am the opposite, twice the Rune points twice the power.

But, I have always favoured high-powered games.

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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4 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

The character I am playing now is a member of two cults and has 64 points of Rune spells combined. I have been playing him for at least 15 years. So yeah, its a none starter in my group.

You can lose some of the spells by removing Common Magic and losing the multiple uses of spells. I would suggest that most rune levels, in RQ2 certainly, reach CHA 21 fairly easily. Have three rune pools and you have 63 points, which fits your PC. So, use the two cults and have a third one for HeroQuesting, or for a SubCult or something similar, and it works.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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48 minutes ago, soltakss said:

You can lose some of the spells by removing Common Magic and losing the multiple uses of spells. I would suggest that most rune levels, in RQ2 certainly, reach CHA 21 fairly easily. Have three rune pools and you have 63 points, which fits your PC. So, use the two cults and have a third one for HeroQuesting, or for a SubCult or something similar, and it works.

Just easier to ignore it.

Edited by Godlearner
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