Carmanians

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

Like I have already explained, my player wants to play a descendant of the Carmanian settlers in Prax. His family is thus in Prax since 15 years and he came there very young. I will use for him the Praxian history, and as suggested, the Lunar Tarsh cultural package (replacing Tarshite language by Carmanian). For the most important parent and grand parent, I still don't know if we'll stay on the Lunar Tarsh history or if we try to build one for Carmania and lunar heartland.

Ah I see, sorry I had missed that. So yeah in that case you may only have to do some research for the grand-parents' era, and a lot of the Praxian stuff would apply.

59 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I think one of the great strength of RQ was that it has always been symmetrical (I remember the 'Monsters have experience too'). But I don't consider having simplified NPCs to be asymmetrical: The rules are still the same.

Yeah I think that line about monsters' experience is what cemented the very symmetrical and simulationist take that many old RQ players have. Other mainly took from it that "monsters are people too".

But as for mook NPCs, I would consider the rules to be different if you consider, say, not tracking separate injuries, not playing with hit locations for the little guys (or hand-waving them narratively), and so on.

Edited January 1, 2021 by lordabdul

[Kloster]

1 minute ago, lordabdul said:

Ah I see, sorry I had missed that. So yeah in that case you may only have to do some research for the grand-parents' era.

Yes, that's what I think.

2 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Yeah I think that line about monsters' experience is what cemented the very symmetrical and simulationist take that many old RQ players have.

Completely true for me.

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Other mainly took from it that "monsters are people too".

Also true. That means they have lovers passions, interests,... and are managed by the same rules.

 

4 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

But as for mook NPCs, I would consider the rules to be different if you consider, say, not tracking separate injuries, not playing with hit locations for the little guys (or hand-waving them narratively), and so on.

For mooks, we always had reduced stats and skill sets, but most of the GM have kept the localized wounds.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

The people who consider the rulebook to be the exhaustive model

Anybody who thinks that the RQG rules are "the exhaustive model" is foolish and should find another game to play, perhaps tic tac toe.

[Joerg]

On 1/1/2021 at 6:44 PM, davecake said:

My understanding is that the YarGan sorcery using peoples being Waertagi is more or less canon, as there are other references to a Waertagi tribe that goes up the Janube. But the reference to YarGan being Vadeli is not, and seems much harder  to justify. 
Though we know that Vadeli sorcerous techniques (the Telendarian school) were used in Fronela several thousand years later, because if they weren’t then Talor wouldn’t have needed to ban them. But that is much much later. 

The presence of Vadeli on both sides of the Nidan Mountains is well known.

The destruction of Mt. Lodril (creating the Citadel of Brass in Sog City) and the creation of the Janube Sea, Sweet Sea and ultimately the Poralistor was a cooperation of Brithini (or their local representatives, the Kachisti) and the Waertagi. The Kachisti got overthrown by the Vadeli, whose sorcerers happen to be blue-skinned, too. A different hue of blue.

We don't know whether the Vadeli also got to rule over the Waertagi, whether the Poralistor expansion was a consequence of the Vadeli taking over, with the Waertagi either fleeing from these wrong overlords or acting on their orders..

There is no YarGan-like monster deity anywhere else the Waertagi showed up.

[davecake]

On 1/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, Joerg said:

The destruction of Mt. Lodril (creating the Citadel of Brass in Sog City) and the creation of the Janube Sea, Sweet Sea and ultimately the Poralistor was a cooperation of Brithini (or their local representatives, the Kachisti) and the Waertagi.

Yes. Which generally implies YarGan was associated with one or more of those groups, the Waertagi most obviously.

On 1/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, Joerg said:

The Kachisti got overthrown by the Vadeli, whose sorcerers happen to be blue-skinned, too. A different hue of blue.

 

Got overthrown half a continent away at Nida, in a dramatic reversal involving the Mostali - and we know different things (eg becoming mingled with the Vingkotlings) happened to the Kachasti other places, and there are plenty of areas (including the other end of the Janube) where Brithini survived without significant challenge from the Vadeli, you are trying to turn a remote local myth into a universal one. 

 

On 1/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, Joerg said:

We don't know whether the Vadeli also got to rule over the Waertagi, whether the Poralistor expansion was a consequence of the Vadeli taking over, with the Waertagi either fleeing from these wrong overlords or acting on their orders..

 

Well, in the sense we can't prove a negative in conspiracy theory, so we can't absolutely prove that myths that don't mention the Vadeli at all are secretly about them. But we actually have a myth cycle about the Waertagi and Brithini on the Janube that makes sense without the Vadeli and less sense if you introduce them (why are they messing about at the wrong end of the Janube despite that huge hostile city at the other? Why are they helping the Brithini?), so this seems to be a theory that only works if no one pulls out Occams razor. 

 

On 1/3/2021 at 7:56 AM, Joerg said:

There is no YarGan-like monster deity anywhere else the Waertagi showed up.

 

That, I am not so sure about. The Waertagi are generally associated with the sea gods, a minority even with Wachaza, and that really doesn't argue against monster gods that demand sacrifice (like Magasta). And they are generally represented as having some members who are more like Deep Ones than humans (perhaps with a fair bit of overlap with the Wachaza war clans?) - it is easy to see how a monstrous cannibal god who demands sacrifice and lurks under the water is associated with the Waertagi, but neither sacificial rites nor water seem to indicated Vadeli much. And YarGa.n seems to offer sanctuary to any sorcerers, which would seem to indicate that they weren't Vadeli (who would oppose Kachasti or Brithini). 

Plus YarGan is only associated with blue people (no Red warriors or brown workers or Yellow leaders), is not associated  with Chaos, or allied with Mostali, etc. - you seem to be pretty much entirely hanging the dominance of the Vadeli off the idea that there is more than one kind of blue sorcerer, so it is a possibility. 

 

[Jape_Vicho]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:59 PM, Joerg said:

For the Rokari, we know that only boys selected at a young age, with high intelligence, will get introduced into the zzabur caste and taught sorcery. It isn't known what happens to those who drop out. Perhaps dropping out is fatal, perhaps dropping out means a future in monastic isolation.

There are bound to be female sorceresses in Tanisor and Ralios, and also boys with the talent and the will to learn sorcery who did not get picked by the selection of the wizards. Some variant of Chalana Arroy teaching a restricted canon of non-aggressive sorcery may actually be tolerated by the Watchers, but possibly also strongly regulated and cloistered. I don't think that Lhankor Mhy would find such acceptance, not even in monastic isolation, given the kind of scholarship that led to the God Learners and which is anathema to Rokarism - no idea how they treat magic-adjacent guilds like e.g. alchemists. Naval sorcery is acceptable in the Quinpolic League, whether brought by Dormal, resurrected from Debaldan School documents, or acquired from the Waertagi. (The Rokari scene in the Guide shows at least one descendant of Waertagi among the bearers of the sedan.)

Would you mind sharing your views on other kinds of magic used in Seshnela other than Zzaburi sorcery (or point on the direction of sources that speak about the subject)? I'm very interested. 

For what I have interpreted, horali warrior societies probably would use spirit magic linked to their ancestral hsunchmen traditions. This could make their characters interesting and versatile (more than not using any magic anyway). But what about Talar? They are said to fight too, so it would be weird for them to be at a disadvantage over the horali, maybe they use a kind of sorcery too? 

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

Would you mind sharing your views on other kinds of magic used in Seshnela other than Zzaburi sorcery (or point on the direction of sources that speak about the subject)? I'm very interested. 

For what I have interpreted, horali warrior societies probably would use spirit magic linked to their ancestral hsunchmen traditions. This could make their characters interesting and versatile (more than not using any magic anyway). But what about Talar? They are said to fight too, so it would be weird for them to be at a disadvantage over the horali, maybe they use a kind of sorcery too? 

The Talar/Man-of-all heavy cavalry of Seshnela has in all probability first pick on long-term support sorcery. With Blessing of Kargan Tor and Ward Against Weapons, and items with Attract Missiles and Attract Magic, all these people need is horsemanship. Looking at where the "new Seshnela" is located, the Enerali cult of Ehilm might be the go-to "society" for that.

Their worship of such deities might very well be reenactment quests without direct sacrifice but dedicating overcoming a quest obstacle to the deity.

Farmers will mostly be involved in rites to the Green Lady - which one may depend on location, some of the southwestern provinces of Tanisor might actually belong to Seshna. Rindland and core Tanisor are at least as likely to be part of Ralia's domain. Not sure how jealous the Land Goddesses are of their domain.

Urban worker caste folk are the unknown. They might be rudimentarily literate, where their crafts are involved or where they take over the actual work for trading leaving PR to the lowlier members of the Talar caste who don't serve as body-servants of the higher nobility. (At least that's what that unpublished frieze of Seshnela indicates.) 

 

Much of New Seshnela is Tanisor pretending to be the direct heir of Seshnela - pretty much like the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation was an empire of German language(s), but neither holy nor Roman. Not even in the administrative traditions, unlike the Merowingian Frankish kingdom.

The Ralian version of sun worship apparently celebrates the exposure of skin to the sun (see for instance the queen of Galin in Mark Smylie's cover of Men of the West) much like contemporary sun worshipers (allied to the cult of Indlas Somer) do. That and the Malkioni idea of noble body perfection go along to create a vibe we don't associate with medieval chivalry, rather with temple dancers from India. A much needed counterpoint to the stodginess emanating from Segurane in the shape of Rokar's teachings (based on humans censoring the written word of the Invisible God in the best traditions of Malkioneranism).

For the rural population, my old suggestion for a villager game needs only a few tweaks - no hereditary sorcerers (although the southwestern provinces still have those families, now demoted to worker population, who were hereditary zzaburi, and who might hide away their writings whenever the watchers look), and removing any suggestion that a talar caste member might desire any villager person, no matter how physically perfect they may turn out.

Perhaps less marital fidelity than the Orlanthi. Or more festivals to the Green Lady - same result, really.

 

HQ1 brought up ritual blessings for the hoi polloi among the Malkioni. Readings (or recitations) of Malkioni scripture while invoking the ancestral powers of Earth, Storm, Sea and Fire may not grant much in terms of individual magic, but might enable something like practical blessings from a wyter.

The Theyalan "it is me who channels the deity" is not universal in Glorantha. The Pelorian theists appear to have a much lower rate of direct initiation into the cult secrets that give access to rune magics, and weirdly a lot of the rites for all manner of "lower deities" are managed by the lesser Yelmic priesthood rather than holy people from those cults.

The Malkioni ways might be similar to this. The concept of the chain of veneration where magical energy from the services to the Invisible God (and other supernatural entities) are managed by the wizards who receive a decent portion from that as temporarily available magical power may even go all the way down to the Ancestor Worship that already Cults of Prax told us about for the Westerners.

Ancestor worship where the ancestors were like gods (the Paseren of Danmalastan) should play a great role in Malkioni society. Spirit magic would be ancestral, in many cases. The Horali Beast Societies can be as much Daka Fal as they are Hsunchen.

[Shiningbrow]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:35 AM, Nozbat said:

It's all about waugh! really. 100% don't understand it and it feels terrifying but we got through it. Then we waughed to the tavern and everyone bought us drinks when we told the story... WAUGH!

I presume you're referring to Steve Waugh, what with all this discussion about amazing powers and abilities that people don't understand, but really want...

[coffeemancer]

Always thought Yanafal Tarnils  was wearing Carmanian armour

[Nick Brooke]

On 1/8/2021 at 2:12 PM, coffeemancer said:

Always thought Yanafal Tarnils  was wearing Carmanian armour

Yup. Yanafal Tarnils was a Carmanian, in my account. Related to the Bull Shah himself.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

6 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Yup. Yanafal Tarnils was a Carmanian, in my account. Related to the Bull Shah himself.

One of my PCs was a Carmanian hazar drinking buddy of Yanafal from hundreds of years ago, who fled screaming from the 2nd(?) Battle of Chaos, and eventually came through a time warp to current  Gloranthan times.  Kept making inappropriate comments about YT and various bar maids.  And his Carmanian House wasn't sure what to make of him either.

Fun concept.

[David Scott]

6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Yup. Yanafal Tarnils was a Carmanian, in my account. Related to the Bull Shah himself.

I'm sure I've heard you talk about this before. Did you write it up anywhere? (or will here be the first 🙂).

[Nick Brooke]

54 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I'm sure I've heard you talk about this before. Did you write it up anywhere? (or will here be the first 🙂).

Cult writeup in Tales #17. Bits of it should hit the JC eventually.