Miskatonic Repository copyright clarification?

[umlauthuth]

I was hoping to get some clarification on what is and is not okay for inclusion in a Miskatonic Repository. 

"Material included in Chaosium products under license.Licensed material not available for community use includes, but is not limited to, the Mythos creations of Ramsey Campbell, the Mythos creations of Brian Lumley, and Mythos fiction released by Chaosium under license. Please check the copyright statements in your Chaosium products to determine ownership and copyright."

So, I go to look at the copyright notice in 7e, and as far as I can tell from the copyrights listed "material included in Chaosium products under license" would include byakhee, fire vampires, Ithaqua, lloigor, Tsathoggua, Atlach-Nacha... and everything by H.P. Lovecraft? 

So what mythos elements are allowed in a Misk Rep submission? Is there a distinction between material licensed from Arkham House and material licensed from Lumley that I'm not seeing? 

Edited December 24, 2020 by umlauthuth
clarification

[TwiceBorn]

Just bumping this thread, as I would also be interested in seeing the official reply.

[MOB]

We are updating the MR guidelines with more guidance on this. 

[Rick Meints]

There is no simple list or answer we can provide. For example, take a look at the legal statements at the beginning of Malleus Monstrorum for how granular this gets, and that's just for creatures and such.

[umlauthuth]

42 minutes ago, Rick Meints said:

There is no simple list or answer we can provide. For example, take a look at the legal statements at the beginning of Malleus Monstrorum for how granular this gets, and that's just for creatures and such.

I’m not looking for a simple list, I am looking for a clear one, with all the granularity that implies.

EDIT: And at this point the 7e and MM lists are the ones we have to look at, and at least one of them appears to be saying everything is licensed. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by umlauthuth

[Grimmshade]

I'll second looking for a clear list. Got an adventure basically ready to go, but it may not even be allowed.

[umlauthuth]

Adding this In case my original question was not clear enough.

Here's the copyright section from the Keeper's Rulebook:

Quote

All material concerning Shudde-M’ell and the Chthonians, and all other inventions of Brian Lumley as portrayed in his works, speci cally e Burrowers Beneath, are used with his kind permission. J. Ramsey Campbell’s “Cold Print” ©1969 August Derleth. William Lumley’s and H. P. Lovecra ’s “ e Diary of Alonzo Typer” ©1970 August Derleth. Colin Wilson’s “ e Return of the Lloigor” ©1969 August Derleth. Frank Belknap Long’s “Hounds of Tindalos” ©1946 Estate of Frank Belknap Long. Clark Ashton Smith’s “ e Return of the Sorcerer” ©1931 Clayton Magazines Inc. Clark Ashton Smith’s “ e Nameless O spring ©1932 Clayton Magazines. Inc. e quotes from “ e Inhabitant of the Lake” are ©1964 by J. Ramsey Campbell and “ e Last Revelation of Gla’aki” ©2013 Ramsey Campbell. Clark Ashton Smith’s “ e Seven Geases” ©1934 Popular Fiction Publishing Co. Derleth’s “ e Dweller in Darkness” ©1953 August Derleth. Eddy C. Bertin’s “Darkness, My Name Is” ©1976 Edward P. Berglund. Bloch’s “Notebook Found in a Deserted House” ©1951 Weird Tales. Derleth’s “ e Gable Window” ©1957 Candar Publishing Co. Derleth’s “ e Lurker at the reshold” ©1945 August Derleth. Donald J. Walsh, Jr.’s “ e Rings of the Papaloi” ©1971 August Derleth. Derleth’s “ e ing at Walked on the Wind” ©1933 e Clayton Magazines Inc. Blish’s “More Light” ©1970 Anne McCa rey. Kuttner’s “ e Salem Horror” ©1937 Popular Fiction Publishing Co. Clark Ashton Smith’s “ e Treader of the Dust” ©1935 Popular Fiction Publishing Co. Derleth’s “ e Lair of the Star-Spawn” ©1932 Popular Fiction Publishing Co. Carter’s “Zoth-Ommog”©1976 Edward P. Berglund. Brennan’s “ e Seventh Incantation” ©1963 Joseph Payne Brennan. Henry Hasse’s “ e Horror at Vecra” ©1988 Cryptic Publications. H.P. Lovecra ’s works ©1963, 1964, 1965 August Derleth. Works within are quoted for purposes of illustration.

Now, IANAL, but the Misk Rep guidelines seem to be saying that anything in that section not copyrighted by Chaosium is included under license, right? The guidelines specifically call out the creations of Ramsey Campbell as prohibited: 

Quote

What types of content are prohibited?

• Material included in Chaosium products under license.Licensed material not available for community use includes, but is not limited to, the Mythos creations of Ramsey Campbell, the Mythos creations of Brian Lumley, and Mythos fiction released by Chaosium under license. Please check the copyright statements in your Chaosium products to determine ownership and copyright. 

So, okay, Y'golonac is explicitly not allowed, and here's the copyright statement in the book: "J. Ramsey Campbell’s “Cold Print” ©1969 August Derleth." Okay, so that means Y'golonac is included in the Keeper's Rulebook under license from Derleth's estate, and that it is therefore prohibited content for a Misk Rep product. Straightforward so far.

But then you get to this: "H.P. Lovecraft’s works ©1963, 1964, 1965 August Derleth."

So here's my problem: There's no apparent distinction between Derleth's copyright on Campbell's "Cold Print" and his copyright on "H.P. Lovecraft's works" in total in the copyright information. The guidelines are telling us to check this copyright information to infer what, aside from the explicitly-mentioned Lumley and Campbell material, is prohibited. But this same process of comparison of ©s leads by that same inference to the apparent prohibition, by the Misk Rep's own guidelines, of anything by Lovecraft! 

And that's absurd, right? So where does Chaosium actually intend to draw the line, and how do I find that out other than by contacting Chaosium directly? 

[Mike M]

As already noted above, new guidelines for the Repository are in process.

 

[Nick Brooke]

Hey, Chris @umlauthuth: thanks for pointing me to this old thread. It seems you must have an early version of CoC 7e, as the copyright notices in subsequent printings / updates are much more helpful. 

To make your life easier, here are the relevant copyright pages (only) from the Call of Cthulhu Keeper Rulebook v1.4 and the Malleus Monstrorum: volume I is v1.22 and volume II is v1.23. In all cases, these are the current files available from Chaosium, shared with @MOB's encouragement.

If a monster, tome, great old one (etc.) was created by another author and shown as "used with permission," you can't use it in your Miskatonic Repository creations. Chaosium is not able to delegate that permission to you: put simply, you cannot use this third party material in the Miskatonic Repository. You'll have to use something else instead (or make up your own mythos entity, tome, etc. to take up the slack). Please do not contact these authors or estates yourself about using their material in your Miskatonic Repository creations. 

If you want to use something from one of our other books, the onus for checking its copyright status rests with you. Please take care. Remember that if you sell your work it's a commercial product, and 'fair use' applies in limited circumstances (commentary, criticism, parody) which may not be applicable to your work. 

Chaosium recognizes that credits and copyrights for the Cthulhu Mythos can be difficult to identify, and that some elements of the Mythos may be in the public domain. If you have corrections or additions to any credits given here, please contact us at mythos@chaosium.com.

There's one recent addition to the list I can share with you now: a fan advised us that the mythos tome Thaumaturgical Prodigies in the New England Canaan is copyright (c) 2021 the Estate of August Derleth, was used with permission in Call of Cthulhu 7e, and should not be used in Miskatonic Repository publications. When we next update the Call of Cthulhu Keeper Rulebook's copyright notices, that'll be added to the list.

Finally, the current plan is to update the Miskatonic Repository guidelines after we've heard from people who complete this month's Storytelling Collective scenario-writing workshop, so we can address those potential new contributors' questions. Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, you can find me in the Miskatonic Repository Creators' Circle on Facebook, or email nick.brooke@chaosium.com.

CHA23135_-_Call_of_Cthulhu_Keeper_Rulebook_v1.4.pdf Malleus_Monstrorum_Volume_I_-_Monsters_of_the_Mythos_v1.22.pdf Malleus_Monstrorum_Volume_II_-_Deities_of_the_Mythos_v1.23.pdf

Edited August 11, 2021 by MOB