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Thanks to whitebull campaign, I start to understand the future rules of heroquestiong and I think the episode 29 "propose" very nice rules, by the way(of course that s just an overview and some points need to be defined, but it is great.).

 

The question I have is both rp/gp and is about the knowledge characters try to obtain before heroquest (to know what to do in a particular set of circumstances).

I think that to check if the character knows something, we have to do a roll under the right cult lore.

That is nice for an orlanthi (cultist of Orlanth) being Orlanth to roll under Orlanth cult lore.

 

But now.. What about a non orlanthi being Orlanth ?

Let say we have an Issaries cultist who wants (or has to) become Orlanth

I see several options but I would like to know your perspective (and maybe the forthcoming official rules about that, if it is already defined)

- our guy rolls against its own cult lore (Issaries), with malus (-10/20 if the god is associated in the quest, -30/-40 if not ?)

- our guy has access to the other gods cult lore of his god's pantheon (as lay member), so he can learn the right cult lore (Orlanth) like any orlanth cultist. => Being Orlanth must need to roll against Orlanth cult lore

- our guy reads and has access to many documents in great libraries (Nochet, Boldhome, Jonstown, Glamour ....) so he can pursue his own research and learn the right cult lore (Orlanth)=> Being Orlanth must need to roll against Orlanth cult lore

- some other options, or maybe, not use cult lore skill but other ?

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- our guy rolls against its own cult lore (Issaries), with malus (-10/20 if the god is associated in the quest, -30/-40 if not ?)

I would roll Cult Lore (Issaries) without a penalty. He will know what Orlanth did on the HeroQuest, as that might be well known, but he might not know why Orlanth did it or the cult secrets around Orlanth's actions.

 

13 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- our guy has access to the other gods cult lore of his god's pantheon (as lay member), so he can learn the right cult lore (Orlanth) like any orlanth cultist. => Being Orlanth must need to roll against Orlanth cult lore

You can, in theory, learn Cult Lore (Orlanth) without belonging to Orlanth, but Orlanthi might not like it. As an Issaries cultist it should be OK. If you have both Cult Lore (Orlanth) and Cult Lore (Issaries) then you have a choice of which to roll. In that case, I would make a single roll and if it is under both skills you know from both points of view, if under Cult Lore (Orlanth) but not Cult Lore (Issaries) then you know the Orlanth knowledge and if below Cult Lore (Issaries) but above Cult Lore (Orlanth) you know it from the point of view of Issaries.

 

16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- our guy reads and has access to many documents in great libraries (Nochet, Boldhome, Jonstown, Glamour ....) so he can pursue his own research and learn the right cult lore (Orlanth)=> Being Orlanth must need to roll against Orlanth cult lore

Yes, that works as well. You learn about Cult Lore (Orlanth) without being a worshipper. same would apply as above, in my opinion.

16 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

- some other options, or maybe, not use cult lore skill but other ?

You could have Lore (HeroQuest), Lore (Lightbringers) or Lore (Specific HeroQuest) and use the same method as above. 

The alternative is to go in blind and hope for the best. You should have an idea of the myth, so you are not completely blind, but it depends on how well-known the myth is.

 

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1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I think that to check if the character knows something, we have to do a roll under the right cult lore.

I think there are several options.  Cult Lore for your god is one.  I'd let Devotion to your god or Meditation be options where you seek through prayer or meditation to understand the ways of your god.  Divination spell of course is also an option.

Other Lores may provide clues.  Underworld Lore, Celestial Lore, Spirit Lore, perhaps even Animal or Plant Lore might suggest the interaction of the various world "forces" (aka gods).

And then you can find documents, particularly in various Temples of Knowledge, but also in the palaces of Kings and Princes (King Gormoral of Vanch is known for his library) and in various temples (e.g. Sun Dome temples have the ritual scrolls and books for Yelmalio).  Obviously some of these are very limited or restricted (and may be why you'd like a thief or trickster in your company???).  But obtaining such a document and making a successful R/W roll on the language used should give you some information to work with.

 

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Start with the story. Then work out the mechanics.

Issaries is a Lightbringer and is among the key figures of the Orlanth and Ernalda pantheon, so I can't see fundamental religious opposition among Orlanth initiates to this (but there may well be jealousy at a personal level). Issaries is a talker, newsbringer, negotiator, and storyteller, so cultists may well know more than usual among non-Orlanth initiates of the powers and hints of Orlanth's secrets. On the other hand, they absolutely do not know the secrets of Orlanth or of Orlanth's cults.

So I'd suggest that the character can use Cult Lore at a high penalty.

And there should be consequences if they succeed. If they succeed in becoming Orlanth they they pretty much have become an Orlanth cultist afterwards - so that could lead to a lot of interesting stories. And maybe they have also become less of an Issaries cultist but I would suggest that they have not left the Issaries cult, so that could be even more stories.

Edited by Charles
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Is this Issaries initiate playing Orlanth as the main character, or playing him as part of the supporting cast? The latter probably shouldn't rely on cult secrets, because it's not a story the Orlanth cult preserves, most likely. 

But in that case, I'm not sure how you'd determine their knowledge of the myth and their part in it. Perhaps you could make it all about the Air and/or Movement Runes, having them act on instinct. Alternately, you could give them a temporary and appropriate Cult Lore skill from being instructed. Perhaps at 20%, like a "free" augment. Or make it a characteristic roll involving INT. Or Devotion Passions, or homeland-related Passions. 

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On 1/31/2021 at 3:23 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

But now.. What about a non orlanthi being Orlanth ?

The secrets of Hero Quests are something the tribes themselves guard and trade.  Often clans have practices that differ from those of other clans.

Now, people in an Orlanthi clan are all raised in pantheistic worship of the entire pantheon and have a decent idea about the myths of all the deities as part of their upbringing, and their childhood lay-membership of many deities before they finally chose who to initiate with.  This is not the same as knowing a hero quest's finer details however.

If a hero quest is Orlanth based, then the knowledge will lie with one's clan's Orlanth representative priests and lords.  Will they tell your Issaries merchant what to do?  How is his relationship with them?  Is it good enough that they might perform the hero quest on his behalf?  That would be the preferable outcome.

Any male worshipper might stand in for Orlanth in a Hero Quest, but I would put it to you, not many people will choose to participate in or endorse a hero quest where the main "actor" is not even a cult initiate of the primary participant.  Hero Quests are expensive in wealth and in magic, such that they are an enterprise for a whole community, and if they fail, the ill effects can curse that community for years to come.  Most communities will thus go to a lot of trouble to choose the very best candidate to play a god's role, and to guarantee the very best chance of success they can manage.

I would suggest that the tribe would certainly rush-initiate the Issaries fellow into Orlanth before the HQ.

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1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Any male worshipper might stand in for Orlanth in a Hero Quest, but I would put it to you, not many people will choose to participate in or endorse a hero quest where the main "actor" is not even a cult initiate of the primary participant.

It depends on the HeroQuest. Biturian Varosh was forced to play Orlanth in the Three Blows of Anger HeroQuest, even though he was not a worshipper of Orlanth.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:
On 1/30/2021 at 4:23 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

But now.. What about a non orlanthi being Orlanth ?

The secrets of Hero Quests are something the tribes themselves guard and trade.  Often clans have practices that differ from those of other clans.

Yes they do and this can be important. Some clans, or bloodlines, carry secrets that nobody else has. This might mean that they know something odd about a HeroQuest station, or have a HeroQuest trick that they can use, or even have a different Station that can be used on a HeroQuest. This could be GM interpretation or something Player-inspired.

 

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24 minutes ago, soltakss said:

It depends on the HeroQuest. Biturian Varosh was forced to play Orlanth in the Three Blows of Anger HeroQuest, even though he was not a worshipper of Orlanth.

One could almost make the case that that's why it failed... 

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45 minutes ago, soltakss said:

It depends on the HeroQuest. Biturian Varosh was forced to play Orlanth in the Three Blows of Anger HeroQuest, even though he was not a worshipper of Orlanth.

yes absolutly, it was (without the name I lost) my idea

20 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

One could almost make the case that that's why it failed... 

Yes absolutly, because he/they failed their role / roll (sorry....) but the question is what roll !

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21 hours ago, soltakss said:

It depends on the HeroQuest. Biturian Varosh was forced to play Orlanth in the Three Blows of Anger HeroQuest, even though he was not a worshipper of Orlanth.

In the case of Biturian Varosh playing Orlanth, the expectation for the Praxians was that they wanted him to fail, I believe.  If the desire is for the Orlanth actor to succeed. different choices would be made.

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