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Self initiation


Godlearner

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Without a priest, you need to interact on a more personal level. One way is the spirit cult route - a spirit cult may be a lot easier to establish.

Graduating a spirit cult into a regular cult should be possible as the cult grows and takes on more "respectability". Getting acknowledgement by an established pantheon certainly helps - IMO that's why the cult of Pavis has been marrying into the Lunar Pantheon. Getting another nifty type of elemental to the arsenal is only a by-blow.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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14 minutes ago, Kloster said:

The titles are mortal ones. What the gods like are the gifts (POW, MP, attention, devotion, offers, time, ...), and they reward those who are giving the most with their best rewards (spells, powers,...).

In that case two worshippers with an equal Rune Pool would have the same abilities no matter the title, but they do not.

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20 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

In that case two worshippers with an equal Rune Pool would have the same abilities no matter the title, but they do not.

A priest gives more time, has more dedication, leads worship, ... . So, he receives more.

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1 hour ago, Kloster said:

A priest gives more time, has more dedication, leads worship, ... . So, he receives more.

Not the case. An initiate devoting 90% of his time and magic points tending the shrine, would still not get the same benefits as a priest.

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1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Not the case. An initiate devoting 90% of his time and magic points tending the shrine, would still not get the same benefits as a priest.

True, but I don't see many initiates spending 90% of their time for the temple, just because they need income just to avoid starving. But I agree, RAW, an initiate that has enough income to allow tithing 90% of his time and income to the temple will not receive the same benefits than a full priest, although he gives the same gifts to the god.

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7 hours ago, Kloster said:

True, but I don't see many initiates spending 90% of their time for the temple, just because they need income just to avoid starving. But I agree, RAW, an initiate that has enough income to allow tithing 90% of his time and income to the temple will not receive the same benefits than a full priest, although he gives the same gifts to the god.

Unless you're a Lhankor-ing 🤮

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10 hours ago, Godlearner said:

In that case two worshippers with an equal Rune Pool would have the same abilities no matter the title, but they do not.

Not if the priests of the cult know the tires, rituals, formulae of the cult secrets.

We readily accept that there's a huge difference between being accepted as an an initiate, and actually undergoing the initiation rites. 

Same with the Rune Masters. And every rite is a type of Heroquest. (And it's possible to enter a HQ accidentally).

Unless you've done the rites, you get nothing... 

For me, I'd think the player should probably** have to roll a Devotion critical to get the notice of the deity (augmented with Worship - although I can see that Worship should involve cult secrets... No sacrificing cows to vegan gods!). The deity can then do what they want.

 

(** excluding other magical means...)

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Unless you've done the rites, you get nothing... 

So these rites are the measure of divine acceptance to the rank. Now normally, one would learn these by being accepted by the priesthood, but there is a possibility that they can also be revealed by other means, perhaps even directly by the God. 

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4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

So these rites are the measure of divine acceptance to the rank. Now normally, one would learn these by being accepted by the priesthood, but there is a possibility that they can also be revealed by other means, perhaps even directly by the God. 

That's rite... 🤣🤣🤣

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Question: are we taking about initiation without organized support or supervision... OR acceptance in the deities religious organization.

if it is the first I think there is no reason why a young guy can accidentally find a path to please a god and convince the deity to grant him powers. Called hazia trip, meditation, close to dead experience, etc... but I am sure the possibilities are there... how much power will be granted is hard to tell... and will depends on the relation of the person to the given deity.

For the latter... I think it have to be incredibly difficult to provide evidence and convincing arguments to show a group priests that you have the powers and hold the interest of the given god and the organization. This is particularly true because I am sure the ceremonial rites are in a good way created by humans not the gods.

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2 hours ago, FungusColombicus said:

For the latter... I think it have to be incredibly difficult to provide evidence and convincing arguments to show a group priests that you have the powers and hold the interest of the given god and the organization. This is particularly true because I am sure the ceremonial rites are in a good way created by humans not the gods.

I think divination, knowledge of god (not cult) secrets and rune spells could be a way to convince cult members. But yes, it would be difficult.

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19 hours ago, FungusColombicus said:

For the latter... I think it have to be incredibly difficult to provide evidence and convincing arguments to show a group priests that you have the powers and hold the interest of the given god and the organization. This is particularly true because I am sure the ceremonial rites are in a good way created by humans not the gods.

For me it is the same difficulty than a ralian Orlanthi trying to prove his initiate status in a manirian Orlanth temple.

The knowledge may be different, the rites may be different but as @Kloster said, spells/prayers (a good lighting bolt seems enough) or obtain the priest to try a divination.

In all case, the stranger could face a human opposition : the priest doesn't like him (or just trust him without evidence) so doesn't try to contact the god, deciding by himself.

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On 2/10/2021 at 3:46 PM, dumuzid said:

This reconstruction probably wouldn't be possible without the Blue Moon Plateau trolls and the surviving Blue Moon cult on Melib feeding her worship, though Gabaryanga hasn't met representatives of either group (yet) in my game.  Don't how it'd work for a god with no active worshipers.

How did he acquire his RPs if he hasn't met anybody from the same (or similar) cult yet? Also, how does he replenish RPs?

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1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

How did he acquire his RPs if he hasn't met anybody from the same (or similar) cult yet? Also, how does he replenish RPs?

While he lived in Jokotu, the City of the Free in Fonrit, he performed his mostly ad libbed ceremonies at the shrine to lost and unknown gods there.  Since coming to Pavis he's worshiped in the Seven Mothers Temple, which is run by White Moon Movement members who've joined the White Bull Society (at least in My Glorantha), as a member of an associated cult.

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