First Sacred Time for Orgovale Summer Worshipers

[Stephen L]

For those who have played through the scenario for Dragon for Thunder Hills, just picking some brains for ideas for the First Sacred Time for Orgovale Summer.

One of my characters took the opportunity to become (a rather unlikely) high priest of Orgovale Summer.

I do have an idea for a sacred time ritual, which I’m pleased with.

But it’s too long, because they are going to be sucked into Kallyr’s lightbringer quest.  So I’m looking for more of an hors d’oeuvre.

My idea for a first sacred time was a ritual emissary to establish good relations with the land, i.e. Tarndisi.

Tarndisi is having a few problems.  The wild boar of a certain tusker group (their riders having been killed or captured by the party), have been completely unaccounted for, and they have gone wild, joining Red Eye, and are going on destructive rampages.  Tarndisi wants a stop to this.  She reveals to the party that in order to successfully hunt down Red Eye, they will need a hound.  But the Black Growler is imprisoned in the underworld (conveniently, the Black Growler has made no appearance in the campaign as of yet), so the party must enter hell to retrieve him.

I don't want just to trim it, because I'll probably use it later (although the campaign ideas are backing up now quite a bit).

As an aside, in my campaign, Leika, fearful of the outcome of yet more rash actions by Kallyr, has *forbidden* the Colymar helping Kallyr’s quest, especially the player characters, who are a) outspoken supporters of Kallyr, and b) building quite a reputation for rash action themselves.  But Orgovale Summer is pre-eminently a Vingkotling, so when Kallyr does the whole summon aid, answering that call is more or less hardcoded into who a Vingkotling is, and, O look, the players are already on the hero plane with Orgovale Summer.  O dear.

So I’ll swap my ideas for anything anyone else has done, or is thinking of.

[Joerg]

How old is Tarndisi? Did she see the EWF and their draconic cult?

[FungusColombicus]

1 hour ago, Stephen L said:

But the Black Growler is imprisoned in the underworld (conveniently, the Black Growler has made no appearance in the campaign as of yet), so the party must enter hell to retrieve him

good opportunity to send the players to the Cinder pits to enter hell... so you can keep it local with minimal travel.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

How old is Tarndisi? Did she see the EWF and their draconic cult?

I think she predates the Dawn.

 

[Stephen L]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

How old is Tarndisi? Did she see the EWF and their draconic cult?

Yes, most certainly, she is a source of information on Yerezum Storn, whom she knew personally, and the adventures book has rumour 98 marked as true:

Quote

Tarndisi the Dryad has lived in her grove since the Dawn. She knows more about these lands and its
spirits than any human.

 

23 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I think she predates the Dawn.

Or at least about the Dawn. 

Also her Shanassee Tree

Quote

is an ancient sentient redwood tree that dates
to the Dawn.

(again the adventures book)

[Oracle]

2 hours ago, FungusColombicus said:

good opportunity to send the players to the Cinder pits to enter hell... so you can keep it local with minimal travel.

Wait, the Cinder Pits are an entry to hell? Which one? Or just an entry to the underworld.?

Anyway, is this canon? Can you provide any source for this information?

[FungusColombicus]

20 minutes ago, Oracle said:

Wait, the Cinder Pits are an entry to hell? Which one? Or just an entry to the underworld.?

Anyway, is this canon? Can you provide any source for this information?

The best reference for the cinder pits is:
The Sartar Companion page 42 (Second Edition - Summer 2012).
Sartar Kingdom of Heroes page 292 ((Second Edition - August 2012)
There is no actual canonical description of that place been a direct entrance to hell however because of the description in the books I suspect that is a perfect place to use as one. I am sure the entire place must have a cavern or two where the cracks produced from the Sky Good bombardment open a rift to the underworld.
For sure some "celestial demons" and lots of tortured ghosts can be found there...

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, FungusColombicus said:

The best reference for the cinder pits is:
The Sartar Companion page 42 (Second Edition - Summer 2012).
Sartar Kingdom of Heroes page 292 ((Second Edition - August 2012)

And the Eleven Lights p.111. 

Generally the place was original an Earth "city" whose inhabits strove to reach the Heavens, but were cast down and destroyed in their arrogance. The ridge line was burned and the Cinders Pits left as a bubbling, noxious set of mud pits amidst the wreckage of the Star Tower.  (Picture Yellowstone or Lassen Volcano in the US or Geysir in Iceland perhaps.)  How deep the Star demons burned is unknown.

However, there may well be blocked off Earth caverns that lead much, much deeper, perhaps to Asrelia's realm or even the Caves of Silence.  And maybe there's an army of star demons who pursued those paths to ensure the Earth would never rise again there.  Quite open to interpretation if you want to make it a gateway to the Underworld. 

But you don't have to go much farther to get to the Underworld.  Indrodar's Necklace in the Good Sword clan lands is just across the Starfire Ridges.  And that is a Humakti site to enter the Underworld (noted in SKoH p.335).

[Scorus]

Tarndisi would have been a contemporary of Orgorvale before her apotheosis, most definitely.

One thing that I'm doing that has worked out very well for me is to spread out the post-Dragonrise story. Like you I wanted the players to be involved with the incredible course of events that occurs over the 3 years after that, but to do so they would have had to be doing almost nothing but that and I wanted them to also do cool things like you are suggesting. So my players freed Orgorvale at the very end of Storm 1626. Kallyr will go on her LBQ in Sacred Time 1627. Things will progress from there. This pace has allowed the players to get their feet under them, develop relationships with each other and NPCs, choose some sides in the conflicts to come, etc.

So my advice is to go with your quest (I'm totally going to be stealing that, btw) and put Kallyr's LBQ off a year. There is the chance that the canon gods will hit you with a lightning bolt, but it's remote! 🙂

In my game, Leika and Kallyr are competing for Orgorvale's attention. My PCs are quite beholden to Leika at this point and so she was the first to find out and immediately moved to capitalize on it. She gave the PC "Priest" 4 hides to support the fledgling cult. She used her influence to drum up worshippers and established a shrine in Clearwine, which is on the site of Orgorvale's former seat of power. When Kallyr dies, she will seek Orgorvale's endorsement in her attempts to become the next Prince. Between this and the fact that she was the one that took command and routed the Lunars at the Battle of the Princes when Kallyr fell, she (probably mistakenly) thinks she has a good chance.

I also took a page out of the JC's In a Merry Green Vale and the Tusk Riders that attacked Apple Lane were only part of the group that is hold up in Pig Hollow with Redeye, who are led by a Rune Lord. So lots of potential still there.

[Oracle]

8 hours ago, Scorus said:

... So my players freed Orgorvale at the very end of Storm 1626. Kallyr will go on her LBQ in Sacred Time 1627. ...

So that means Sacred Time between 1626 and 1627, right? Or does it mean Sacred Time between 1627 and 1628?

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, Scorus said:

Tarndisi would have been a contemporary of Orgorvale before her apotheosis, most definitely.

I'm not sure that would be so.  Orgorvale is one of the daughters of Vingkot, so puts her in the Vingkotling/Early Storm Age.  Tarndisi is most likely from the post-Great Darkness/Silver Age (a "Dawn" Redwood spirit if you will).  However, even if not contemporary, perhaps Orgorvale planted or set aside the seed that would become Tarndisi?

18 hours ago, Stephen L said:

But Orgovale Summer is pre-eminently a Vingkotling, so when Kallyr does the whole summon aid, answering that call is more or less hardcoded into who a Vingkotling is, and, O look, the players are already on the hero plane with Orgovale Summer.  O dear.

Seems reasonable.

We know from Heortling Myth p.89-91 that Orgorvale was the youngest of the four children between Vingkot and the Summer Wife.  She married Ulanin the Rider, who clearly came from a different tribe (one of horse riders - and there are associations, I believe, between the Dundealos tribe and Ulanin/horse riders).  We also know the Summer Tribes had "many troubles with the dark men", if that's of use in the story (e.g. if Kallyr is challenged by Darkness in the Underworld).  And we know that the Orgorvaltes tribe was dominant in the region around Boldhome and the Quivin Mountains: "Amongst the Quivini and the Hendriki, there are many stories of Ulanin the Rider and the Orgorvaltes tribe. They were great horseman and had many friends and allies."  To my knowledge almost no tales or stories are actually described, so a lot of opportunity to define what these old myths are that Orgorvale remembers and responds to.

 

[Stephen L]

12 hours ago, Scorus said:

Like you I wanted the players to be involved with the incredible course of events that occurs over the 3 years after that, but to do so they would have had to be doing almost nothing but that and I wanted them to also do cool things like you are suggesting. So my players freed Orgorvale at the very end of Storm 1626. Kallyr will go on her LBQ in Sacred Time 1627.

Yes, I considered doing exactly this, for many good reasons, yours being particularly compelling.

In the end I decided against it, in that I want there to be momentum in world events following the Dragon Rise.  Rather than the Dragon Rises… and everything goes on hold for a bit.  But I was a hair's breath away from doing exactly as you suggest.

So the path I’ve taken is that I’m keeping to timeline, but I am currently averaging about 2 adventures a season, which gives space to cover all the multiple threads.  So as not to penalise the players I’m allowing experience check’s after a significant adventure (if there’s some down time afterwards to catch breath and reflect).

However, I only have rune points regained on season holy days.  So it means that the players are cautious about spending them, and when they do, it's quite spectacular in those really tight moments.

I wonder whether starting the campaign in 1624 might have been an idea.  That would have allowed the characters to have been more developed with adventures driven by their own agendas rather than mine, before being thrown into the big world events.  But then being thrown in the maelstrom is quite fun.

As an aside, I find Glorantha’s richness (and the awesomeness in RQinG as a ruleset to support it), is that scenarios are just writing themselves, and still I have a huge backlog.  I’ve only used two published scenarios (we've had about 8 "adventures").  And I haven’t actually touched the campaign that I had prepared before we began.

[Scorus]

7 hours ago, Oracle said:

So that means Sacred Time between 1626 and 1627, right? Or does it mean Sacred Time between 1627 and 1628?

When I said Sacred time 1627, I meant between 1627 and 1628. I consider Sacred Time to be the last two weeks of the year as it has always appeared at the end of calendars that I've seen.

[Scorus]

3 hours ago, Stephen L said:

So the path I’ve taken is that I’m keeping to timeline, but I am currently averaging about 2 adventures a season, which gives space to cover all the multiple threads.  So as not to penalise the players I’m allowing experience check’s after a significant adventure (if there’s some down time afterwards to catch breath and reflect).

However, I only have rune points regained on season holy days.  So it means that the players are cautious about spending them, and when they do, it's quite spectacular in those really tight moments.

Yes, I considered doing 2 adventures/season but I didn't like what that would do with training time, travel, etc. But I can certainly see how it would work well.

I only allow rune point regains on seasonal holy days and Sacred Time. Allowing it to happen on associated cult days seemed like it would cause too many problems.

[Scorus]

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I'm not sure that would be so.  Orgorvale is one of the daughters of Vingkot, so puts her in the Vingkotling/Early Storm Age.  Tarndisi is most likely from the post-Great Darkness/Silver Age (a "Dawn" Redwood spirit if you will).  However, even if not contemporary, perhaps Orgorvale planted or set aside the seed that would become Tarndisi?

We know from Heortling Myth p.89-91 that Orgorvale was the youngest of the four children between Vingkot and the Summer Wife.  She married Ulanin the Rider, who clearly came from a different tribe (one of horse riders - and there are associations, I believe, between the Dundealos tribe and Ulanin/horse riders).  We also know the Summer Tribes had "many troubles with the dark men", if that's of use in the story (e.g. if Kallyr is challenged by Darkness in the Underworld).  And we know that the Orgorvaltes tribe was dominant in the region around Boldhome and the Quivin Mountains: "Amongst the Quivini and the Hendriki, there are many stories of Ulanin the Rider and the Orgorvaltes tribe. They were great horseman and had many friends and allies."  To my knowledge almost no tales or stories are actually described, so a lot of opportunity to define what these old myths are that Orgorvale remembers and responds to.

I meant Orgorvale the Goddess and not Orgorvale the Queen would be a contemporary of Tarndisi. Her apotheosis would be pre-Tarndisi but she was worshipped in the area until suppressed by the EWF.

The relatively frequent mentions of Ulanin in various sources compared to the mentions of Orgorvale were telling. I see her as taking the Ernalda role to Ulanin's Orlanth, while he was out being the hero she was at home ruling her realm. I reworked her from what is in GA to make her more of an Earth goddess than a purely ancestor god and gave her new cult Summon Household Guardian and the Manage Household skill. I also read somewhere that her realm was associated with peace and peace-keeping, which goes well with that and some other things that are happening in my campaign.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Scorus said:

I meant Orgorvale the Goddess and not Orgorvale the Queen would be a contemporary of Tarndisi. Her apotheosis would be pre-Tarndisi but she was worshipped in the area until suppressed by the EWF.

I suspect her worship fell before that when the Bright Empire of Nysalor destroyed the last of the Vingkotling lines.  But, yes, she would have been reawakened at the Dawn by the surviving Orgorvaltes tribe, and in that sense overlaps with Tarndisi.  As a civilizing goddess (i.e. an Earth goddess of humans) vs. Tarndisi's wildlands (probably more extensive in the Dawn Age), I'm not sure what the relationship would have been.  Perhaps tolerating each other as long as the Orgorvaltes did not desecrate the wilderness?

1 hour ago, Scorus said:

I reworked her from what is in GA to make her more of an Earth goddess than a purely ancestor god and gave her new cult Summon Household Guardian and the Manage Household skill.

Seems reasonable.

 

[jajagappa]

On 2/12/2021 at 8:12 AM, jajagappa said:

Orgorvale is one of the daughters of Vingkot, so puts her in the Vingkotling/Early Storm Age. 

The question of Orgorvale's timeframe was answered by Jeff on FB:  "Lesser Darkness. About 5,000 years ago."

 

[Stephen L]

On 2/11/2021 at 11:03 PM, FungusColombicus said:

The best reference for the cinder pits is:
The Sartar Companion page 42 (Second Edition - Summer 2012).
Sartar Kingdom of Heroes page 292 ((Second Edition - August 2012)
There is no actual canonical description of that place been a direct entrance to hell however because of the description in the books I suspect that is a perfect place to use as one. I am sure the entire place must have a cavern or two where the cracks produced from the Sky Good bombardment open a rift to the underworld.
For sure some "celestial demons" and lots of tortured ghosts can be found there...

Many thanks for the pointers.  The Sartar companion was invaluable for a guide to the Star Fire ridges.

So in the end, I plumped for a re-creation of the tale of how Illavarn Orgorvantes won the hand of Elven Star Maiden. 

If any one finds anything of use this is how it went...

Orgorvale Summer emerged to the wonderous landscape of the lands in Gods time, leading the players across Nymie vale to the Star-Fire ridges, not blasted and barren, but golden and rich, dotted with prosperous steads.  At its heart, not the blackened cinder pits with fuming vents of noxious gasses, but a great hill, atop which sits a magnificent palace reaching to the stars! (I used pictures of the Etemenanki Ziggurat).

At the foot of the steps they had to convince a guard to let them past, and after climbing the thousands of steps to the top, they entered the palace to hear Illavarn’s woeful tale, how he has fallen in love with the Star Maiden, Elena, but a man of flesh is denied the realm of the stars.  They sent a message of his love via a hawk familiar that one of the characters has.  There I thought it would end, but one of the adventurers thought of summoning hippogriffs and flying to rescue the star maiden themselves, defeating fearsome fire demons, gaining entry to Elena’s palace and persuading her to come with them to Illavarn’s palace.

Great fun was had by all, so it made an excellent first Sacred Time for Orgorvale Summer.  (And indeed it's the first time any of my players have done anything on the Gods Plane).

And now to be dragged from the Stars to Hell for Starbrow's Sacred Time...

[skulldixon]

My players just Finished The Dragon of the Thunder Hills and two of them took the offer to reform Orgorvale Summer's Cult; so everything you are sharing is going to be very helpful.

My one player does want to be the High Priestess of the cult but she is not meet the requirements for those high positions yet.

[Stephen L]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:40 PM, skulldixon said:

so everything you are sharing is going to be very helpful

I'm glad it's of use (all the replies on the post have helped me).

Apparently, riding to the stars on Hippogriffs to rescue a star maiden from fire demons was very much enjoyed by the players.