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Pavis county and Sun county roads


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RQ3 Sun County mentions the different axle lenght which makes the wheel ruts inside Sun County unsuitable for the standard Dragon Pass/Lunar wheel ruts. (p.9, under the heading of Trade)

Do stone paved roads have standardized wheel ruts? I have seen a Celtic to Medieval dirt road in Bavaria cut through a hill slope extension in several separate man-made little valleys, but no trace of wheel ruts there. The main dirt road leading from Denmark towards the vicinity of Hamburg was about half a mile wide, except at the gate (or later gap) at Danneverk.

A road paved in soft stone might well develop a more permanent impression of wheel ruts. (So does the ramp leading into my garage, tiled with s-shaped stones about 10 inch long. Those ruts are rather rounded in vertical profile, though, and a different axle length wouldn't be a problem.)

Edited by Joerg
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1 hour ago, Brootse said:

Does Pavis county or Sun county have any stone-paved roads?

 

10 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Do stone paved roads have standardized wheel ruts? I have seen a Celtic to Medieval dirt road in Bavaria cut through a hill slope extension in several separate man-made little valleys, but no trace of wheel ruts there. The main dirt road leading from Denmark towards the vicinity of Hamburg was about half a mile wide, except at the gate (or later gap) at Danneverk.

 

Don’t know if there is evidence of bronze age paved roads, is this a thing of the Iron Age Romans? Or the magically made Royal Sartar Roads? Even the quite long well engineered Pavis Road which carried the Lunar Army to victory in 1610 is a dirt path...

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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11 minutes ago, Joerg said:

RQ3 Sun County mentions the different axle lenght which makes the wheel ruts inside Sun County unsuitable for the standard Dragon Pass/Luar wheel ruts. (p.9, under the heading of Trade)

Do stone paved roads have standardized wheel ruts? I have seen a Celtic to Medieval dirt road in Bavaria cut through a hill slope extension in several separate man-made little valleys, but no trace of wheel ruts there. The main dirt road leading from Denmark towards the vicinity of Hamburg was about half a mile wide, except at the gate (or later gap) at Danneverk.

A road paved in soft stone might well develop a more permanent impression of wheel ruts. (So does the ramp leading into my garage, tiled with s-shaped stones about 10 inch long. Those ruts are rather rounded in vertical profile, though, and a different axle length wouldn't be a problem.)

Yeah, that wheel rut thing in Sun county seems quite strange to me.

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5 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

 

Don’t know if there is evidence of bronze age paved roads, is this a thing of the Iron Age Romans? Or the magically made Royal Sartar Roads? Even the quite long well engineered Pavis Road which carried the Lunar Army to victory in 1610 is a dirt path...

Brick-paved roads date back to 4000 BCE (the streets of the cities of the Indus Valley civilization were paved) and stone-paved roads date back at least to 2000 BCE, when Minoan Cretans built a 50km road across the island from north to south. Corduroy roads (log paving) may be even older. 

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6 minutes ago, Eff said:

(the streets of the cities of the Indus Valley civilization were paved)

Good call, though I will point out that this is a singular society, one that has no other known equivalent in many ways. 

 

6 minutes ago, Eff said:

nd stone-paved roads date back at least to 2000 BCE, when Minoan Cretans built a 50km road across the island from north to south.

Sweet, definitely and solidly bronze age!

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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There are also the wooden causeways of Bronze and Iron Age Ireland and Central Europe which would preserve wagon ruts somewhat. Not quite applicable to Sun County, though.

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1 hour ago, Eff said:

stone-paved roads date back at least to 2000 BCE, when Minoan Cretans built a 50km road across the island from north to south.

Yes, and I don't remember the dates, but Mycenae has stone paved roads.

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1 hour ago, Brootse said:

Yeah, that wheel rut thing in Sun county seems quite strange to me.

Yep, that's the point. 

The wheel rut thing is based on how things once were in China, where different provinces had different axle widths, so travelling any long distance tediously required multiple sets of axles.

There might be some vestigial remnants of superior roadways from Pavis's heyday, but in the Zola Fel valley the easiest way to move stuff most of the year is by boat or barge.

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16 minutes ago, MOB said:

The wheel rut thing is based on how things once were in China, where different provinces had different axle widths, so travelling any long distance tediously required multiple sets of axles.

Or to use a more recent example between Victoria and New South Wales at Albury Station

Quote

"Now comes a singular thing, the oddest thing, the strangest thing, the most unaccountable marvel that Australia can show," he wrote. "At the frontier between NSW and Victoria our multitude of passengers were routed out of their snug beds by lantern light in the morning in the biting cold to change cars. Think of the paralysis of intellect that gave that idea birth, imagine the boulder it emerged from, on some petrified legislator's shoulders."

Mark Twain.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/a-track-to-the-future-20040110-gdi4qj.html

 

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7 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Good call, though I will point out that this is a singular society, one that has no other known equivalent in many ways. 

Mohenjo Daro (the Bollywood epic, at least) is about as RuneQuest as you can get ("...before the British Raj, before the Mughals, before Christ, before Buddha, before India as we know it, there was... Mohenjo Daro"). 

 

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Michael sir, if you are recommending this I am off in search of it right now! Thank you.

Quote

Mohenjo-daro (/mˌhɛn ˈdɑːr/; Sindhi: موئن جو دڙو,  meaning 'Mound of the Dead Men';[2][3] Urdu: موئن جو دڑو [muˑənⁱ dʑoˑ d̪əɽoˑ]) is an archaeological site in the province of Sindh, Pakistan. Built around 2500 BCE, it was one of the largest settlements of the ancient Indus Valley Civilisation, and one of the world's earliest major cities, contemporaneous with the civilizations of ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, Minoan Crete, and Norte Chico. Mohenjo-daro was abandoned in the 19th century BCE as the Indus Valley Civilization declined, and the site was not rediscovered until the 1920s. Significant excavation has since been conducted at the site of the city, which was designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1980.[4] The site is currently threatened by erosion and improper restoration.[5]

From Wikipedia 

ETA

Psst, hey @MOBwe better be careful or the moderators of this place will give off heck for being off topic.

 

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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11 hours ago, MOB said:

Yep, that's the point. 

The wheel rut thing is based on how things once were in China, where different provinces had different axle widths, so travelling any long distance tediously required multiple sets of axles.

There might be some vestigial remnants of superior roadways from Pavis's heyday, but in the Zola Fel valley the easiest way to move stuff most of the year is by boat or barge.

Check.

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18 hours ago, MOB said:

The wheel rut thing is based on how things once were in China, where different provinces had different axle widths, so travelling any long distance tediously required multiple sets of axles.

 

18 hours ago, metcalph said:

Or to use a more recent example between Victoria and New South Wales at Albury Station

I don't know when Mark Twain wrote the text in Australia, but France and Spain had this very problem about 40 years ago (last time I went to Spain).

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7 hours ago, Kloster said:

 

I don't know when Mark Twain wrote the text in Australia, but France and Spain had this very problem about 40 years ago (last time I went to Spain).

Howls of derisive laughter, Bruce. 😉 Australia has this problem to this very day. We do have some standard gauge railways interstate, now. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia

Edited by AndrewTBP
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38 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I didn't knew. At least Europe solved this specific problem.

No, there are different gauges in Europe too. But carts aren't trains and don't need ruts. And if there are mainly dirt roads in Pavis and Sun counties, they would be in a bad condition for most of the year, and the ruts, and even the road widths, would be in constant change. The different axle widths causing trouble would only make sense if the roads were stone/brick paved, and if the Sun county used much slimmer carts. Of course Sun county being Sun county, they cause trouble for strangers even for no good reasons.

And carts aren't very important for trade goods transportation anyway. River transportation costs are about 1/8 of road transportation costs, and sea transportation 1/30.

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