Jump to content

How Could BRP Be More Popular...?


frogspawner

Recommended Posts

In particular, the hate-on some BRP people have for D20 based games or, say, MRQ doesn't do the game any good.

I think these are problems of the past. At least over here the d20 wave and

the debates caused by it have ended a long time ago, and Mongoose will pub-

lish a revised edition of Runequest in 2010.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 695
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

To me, this (how could BRP be more popular) is the wrong question. Or it's only part of the right question. Given the renaissance BRP is enjoying right now, I'm pretty happy with the material I'm getting, and don't really care if I'm part of a dedicated small group of gamers or part of a huge mass of less-focused gamers.

I'd be more interested in discussing how BRP publishers can make more money, or how to ensure that the flow of material continues and grows. Getting good answers to those questions would ensure that the great material for BRP will continue to flow; we won't have another 20-year drought, and I can get my periodic BRP material fix.

I agree. Games based on BRP have been popular. As we've discussed in previous threads, the key is not to get people to play BRP ("Try it, you'll like it!") but to produce fun, well-written games that use it. People don't play games because they love the rules; they play games because they love the setting or genre and learn to appreciate the rules afterward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People don't play games because they love the rules; they play games because they love the setting or genre and learn to appreciate the rules afterward.

This is not necessarily the case, I know quite a lot of people who buy all

of the available material for their favourite rules system because they like

the rules and what they enable their player characters to do.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People don't play games because they love the rules; they play games because they love the setting or genre and learn to appreciate the rules afterward.

Sorry, I disagree.

In my experience people don't usually love a setting or genre before playing it nor do they learn to appreciate the rules afterward.Love of a setting usually only applied to licensed settings, since those are the ones people would be familiar with before picking up a rule book.

Usually people play something initially because the GM picked up a RPG and liked the rules or setting/genre, or both. Or they play something because it is the set of rules they already have and are familiar with.

Rule mechanics certainly play a factor-especially since many RPG rule systems have material that covers several genres. Practically every major RPG system has something to cover the "heroic fantasy" genre, so genre probably isn't the deciding factor for people playing fantasy campaigns. People don't say "I want to play a fantasy RPG or a Sci-Fi RPG, they decide of a specific fantasy or Sci-fi game system or setting.

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think these are problems of the past. At least over here the d20 wave and

the debates caused by it have ended a long time ago, and Mongoose will pub-

lish a revised edition of Runequest in 2010.

At best its moved the target recently, but there's still a tendency for some BRP fans to froth at the mouth about D&D and its relatives (or with the RQ grogs to bash Mongoose) and neither of those is a positive element.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is not necessarily the case, I know quite a lot of people who buy all

of the available material for their favourite rules system because they like

the rules and what they enable their player characters to do.

I think there's a tendency for people who don't care about rules to assume no one else does either. But I know plenty of people who will ask about what system a new campaign is going to use well before they ask more than cursory details about the setting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the thing that would stand the best chance of making BRP more popular would be if it were aviable in more places so that more people could be exposed to it.

For BRP to become popular, people have to become aware that it even exists. TO do that they have to be exposed to it in some way.

The problem is that virtually the only ways to become exposed to BRP is to either stumble across it in a local RPG shop, or have someone who is already familiar with the game bring it up in conversation or show it. Neither is very likely to happen to someone who isn't already an experienced RPGer. By the time some one is an experienced RPGer, and is likely to be exposed to BRP, they probably already have thier own ideas about RPGs and their favorite set of rules-making it more difficult for BRP to gain popularity.

This means that BRP has a near zero chance of attracting new gamers into the hobby. Non gamers aren't likely to be in a dedicated RPG shop, or surfing the Chasoium or RPGNow websites.

What the popular games manage to do it get themselves placed in mainstream book and comic stores where they can catch the eye of non gamers and draw them into the hobby. Companies like WotC and White Wolf get thier products on the shelves of places like Barns & Noble and Waldenbooks.

Of course, this was precisely the reason behind the RQ3/Avalon Hill deal, and that didn't turn out too well .

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been pretty impressed with the amount of interest that Classic Fantasy and Fractured Hopes have been generating. I think this illustrates that point that it's the supplementary material which will be the best draw. Getting the most popular monographs into actual distribution will be something for the near future, I imagine.

And I think this is the crux. There is no compelling core setting for BRP in distribution. ROME is excellent and could certainly become an excellent core setting, but not on my FLGS shelf. Yes, even in todays world this matters. Many many many people will not buy a book of any type unless they can flip through it and perhaps read the introduction or first chapter. A companion book or books to this that cover the Principate and the Empire would go a long way to establishing this, if it gets into distro.

Classic Fantasy is very good. Combine it with the two other volumes in the works, a compelling cover (I'm thinking Hodgson's Dragon Warriors cover at the moment), a run through layout, and a decent amount about the core "world" (The Realms??) and it would be a very very good device to get people into the game.... if it hits distro.

I know for a lot of small companies, distribution hits right at the bottom line, that it takes many many more books to make up for the distributors cut. The exposure though can do wonders for a line. Look at Savage Worlds, or other games almost as aged as BRP; GURPS, Hero, etc. Does anyone think that if these systems were launched now and only sold through their publishers sites or Lulu that they would become anywhere near as popular as they are today?

So in short I think its a good compelling core setting that gets exposure in a traditional game store environment that would do this. A buddy of mine, who is part owner in a FLGS looked over ROME and lamented that he couldn't get it thru his channels. He has also commented on the excellent cover of Merrie England.

SDLeary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But I don't think that fact - that BRP is a simple, logical, quick and elegant system comes through in reading the big book of BRP. A smaller, more focused book, maybe even genre specific, without optional rules, would be much better for growing the popularity of the system.

But it is not, IMHO, the best vehicle for introducing new players to the system.

Does the free quick-start guide not provide this? I haven't read it. Or does there need to be a 'players edition' of BRP somewhere in between?

The quick start guide is excellent as a quick start guide but it is not really the same thing as a concise, focused, complete rule system. Also, some of the scenarios provided with it reference rules not in the quick start (auto fire comes to mind).

If it included say a more complete weapon /armor table from one genre (say fantasy) and one lite (but complete) power system it would be pretty close though.

Somebody mentioned D101games/Drules - ironically, don't these free and very similar rulesets dilute BRP's potential customer base? Would BRP be more popular if they didn't exist? (NOTE: I'm not faulting them in any way, just speculating here).

I don't really think so. I think the interoperability helps the BRP family as a whole. OpenQuest is based on the MRQ SRD. I just saw a thread on RPG net where someone was interested in the Mongoose Eternal Champion line but didn't like hit locations. So buy the Mongoose books and use OpenQuest - problem solved. The conversion is easy (OQ being a derivitve of MRQ), and Mongoose gets business it might not have had if OpenQuest did not exist while OpenQuest gets business from someone who might have never heard of d101 Games without having been exposed to Mongoose EC first.

Mongoose understands this relationship - that is why the MRQ SRD exists. After all, once they started as a small d101 Games using WotC's SRD.

Geting more back to the original topic if BRP is not the best way to bring in new gamers it definately has a place. Once people are introduced, converted, indoctrinated and assimiliated into the BRP wholeness they will want the big book of everything. But first they must be converted and brought into the fold. We need a slimmer, sexier, shinier bauble to catch their attention first.

Help kill a Trollkin here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Image seems to be a problem, I've seen a number of comments basically dismissing it as a relic of the 80s, it doesn't have a cool trendy mechanic (cards, chips, dice pools whatever), it doesn't have a real advantage / disadvantage system (HERO / GURPS). The one that kills me is "it's complicated".

For me BRP is a very simple, elegant system capable of great detail without bogging down in rules. It is easily modified, I have used it as the base for a number of other systems very easily. We combined it with Phoenix Command for a campaign at one time, it worked well, PC provided a very detailed combat system and BRP filled in all the holes in the non-combat rules. It was used in a similar way for The Morrow Project 3rd edition.

Unlike many other generic games you can easily swap parts in and out. If you want a wound system instead of hitpoints you can do that without screwing up everything else. If you want to add a very cinematic "80s style internet web" rule system, it is easy to either add something or make the existing rules fit. If you really want to have an advantage / disadvantage system it really isn't hard to make one fit in. If for some reason you really wanted to use levels I'm sure that could be made to work too.

BRP is silly putty, all that is needed is to get people to realize silly putty is cool. :)

Edited by Toadmaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For your general edification, an illuminating quote from James Wallis (who knows something about running RPG publishing companies), specifically about Dragon Warriors, but clearly relevant to BRP as well. Taken from the Yahoo DW group:

In my opinion, things that do increase people's awareness of DW (or any little-known game) include, in no particular order:

* Reviews of DW books, on existing websites like RPG.net and ENWorld, in magazines, on blogs, and on Amazon, Paizo, DriveThruRPG and other commercial sites. We actually get a lot more traffic to the Magnum Opus site from the one review of the game on ENWorld than we do from all the reviews on RPG.net put together.

* Sessions of the game being run at conventions.

* Appearances by the creators at conventions.

* People playing the game at local clubs and demonstrating it in their local game shop.

* People discussing the game on net forums. This includes game write-ups and PBeM/play-by-forum.

* Copies of the game actually being on sale in game shops.

* New releases always give the rest of the line a small spur.

Things that don't:

* Free products (except competition prizes).

* Copies of the game in mainstream bookstores. They don't sell.

* Mentions of the game in mainstream media. A few years ago an RPG released by Hogshead Publishing, my old company, was prominently discussed as part of a front-page story on Slate or Salon--I forget which. Sales did not change at all.

* Magazine adverts. A very good way to flush money away.

Things about which I am ambivalent:

* Banner ads. May have an effect, but it's hard to tell.

The gist - play the game where people will notice; discuss it outside this site; get it reviewed; get more products out. Wal-mart etc are chimera

Further thoughts this evening when I'm home from work...

Cheers,

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in short I think its a good compelling core setting that gets exposure in a traditional game store environment that would do this. A buddy of mine, who is part owner in a FLGS looked over ROME and lamented that he couldn't get it thru his channels. He has also commented on the excellent cover of Merrie England.SDLeary

ROME will be available via Cubicle 7 from February, so hopefully it'll start to be distributed to some FLGS. With their bright vivid covers, both Rome and Merrie England should draw a lot of attention when displayed on a shop shelf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ROME is excellent and could certainly become an excellent core setting, but not on my FLGS shelf. Yes, even in todays world this matters. Many many many people will not buy a book of any type unless they can flip through it and perhaps read the introduction or first chapter.

What Pete said. Rome will be in the shops in February. And in case you had not already guessed, we have started a partnership with Cubicle 7. I hope that Cubicle, with us joining their forces, can become for BRP what Pagan Publishing and Pegasus Spiele are for CoC.

So in short I think its a good compelling core setting that gets exposure in a traditional game store environment that would do this. A buddy of mine, who is part owner in a FLGS looked over ROME and lamented that he couldn't get it thru his channels. He has also commented on the excellent cover of Merrie England.

I think your friend can already pre-orded. Rome has been on Alliance's product list for one month now, and Dragon Lines has appeared, too. You will be able to see the cover next week. Tiziano's covers are worth every single euro I spent on them - they attract attention. I hope the supply of Merrie England copies that I sent for Dragonmeet will be enough. I have not put the MRQ stuff in the co-publish pipeline because it is not yet clear what Mongoose's intentions are with the RQ OGL, but I will do it soon.

Unfortunately, historical roleplaying is a niche market. We now have sort of a name in it with three products available (they'll be five or six in 2010) but most gamers prefer other genres. Given how overinflated the Fantasy market is, I hope that BRP Mecha will do the magic.

Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, historical roleplaying is a niche market. We now have sort of a name in it with three products available (they'll be five or six in 2010) but most gamers prefer other genres.

On the other hand, most of the fantasy settings published over the last years

seem to be very similar, while there are still many, many unexplored historical

settings that could offer something completely different and fresh.

So, while historical settings will doubtless remain a niche market, the genre at

least offers a realistic chance for a surprising success (think "Qin - The War-

ring States") now and then, while I find it hard to imagine that there will be

any new fantasy setting that will truly stand out.

"Mind like parachute, function only when open."

(Charlie Chan)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I have not put the MRQ stuff in the co-publish pipeline because it is not yet clear what Mongoose's intentions are with the RQ OGL, but I will do it soon.

Prepare your own logo that indicates compatibility with Open Gaming License(d) d100 based game engines and what Mongoose does is almost entirely irrelevant - and if need be, since the MRQ SRD is OGL, even if they choose not to release an SRD for MRQ2, it will be easy enough (and legal) to release your own OGL revision of MRQ that makes it numbers compatible with MRQ2 (can't copyright rules etc etc etc). :D

Not sure about the trade association idea. But getting more folk involved in the Chaosium Missionary program specifically for BRP seems worthwhile.

I also wonder about setting up some sort of publishing collective. If a group of us were to work together to produce a few books a year under something like Chaosium's sample license but specifically aimed at getting them in to the distribution channel (via negotiations wit Chaosium, C7, Esdevium or whoever), would that be workable? Such a project is fraught with potential problems, but could reap considerable benefits for the game and if structured and managed carefully wouldn't be an awkward undertaking for those involved...

Cheers,

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matt Sprange has just confirmed there will be no MRQ2 SRD on the State of the Mongoose Discussion thread here

Mongoose Publishing :: View topic - State of the Mongoose Discussion and Questions

(you'll need to scroll down a bit)

Head Honcho of D101 Games
Publisher of Crypts and Things/Monkey/OpenQuest/River of Heaven
The Sorcerer Under the Mountain

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Prepare your own logo that indicates compatibility with Open Gaming License(d) d100 based game engines and what Mongoose does is almost entirely irrelevant - and if need be, since the MRQ SRD is OGL, even if they choose not to release an SRD for MRQ2, it will be easy enough (and legal) to release your own OGL revision of MRQ that makes it numbers compatible with MRQ2 (can't copyright rules etc etc etc).

In fact we already did. Merrie England has its own magic system, that is inspired by RQ Guilds, but is neither MRQ1 nor MRQ2, it is a system of its own. It will be packed into an SRD and made available soon. However, putting the RQ Logo or the Chaosium logo on the front cover provides some value. The D100 logo is nice, but RQ or BRP is better.

I also wonder about setting up some sort of publishing collective. If a group of us were to work together to produce a few books a year under something like Chaosium's sample license but specifically aimed at getting them in to the distribution channel (via negotiations wit Chaosium, C7, Esdevium or whoever), would that be workable? Such a project is fraught with potential problems, but could reap considerable benefits for the game and if structured and managed carefully wouldn't be an awkward undertaking for those involved...

I see no problem in this. There are some technicalities in how to do this, but these are best discussed off forum. Certainly your experience would greatly increase the chances.

Matt Sprange has just confirmed there will be no MRQ2 SRD on the State of the Mongoose Discussion thread here

This does not necessarily mean that the new edition will not be OGL. But it also does not mean that it will. Certainly, it greatly increases the chances that Crusaders of the Amber Coast will be BRP.

Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As of d101, OpenQuest is a RuneQuest derivative, not a BRP one. I think Newt's intention was to BRP-ify RuneQuest, not to compete with BRP. Although he actually did. But this is another story.

Seeing as you think you can read my mind, how did I end up competing with BRP?

Head Honcho of D101 Games
Publisher of Crypts and Things/Monkey/OpenQuest/River of Heaven
The Sorcerer Under the Mountain

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seeing as you think you can read my mind, how did I end up competing with BRP?

"Competing" in the positive meaning of the word. OpenQuest surely appeals to the same group of gamers that prefer BRP over RQ. Many people love the Elric stuff but dislike the hit location option, for instance, or wish to have a simpler game (see current thread on rpg.net) and they have only two options to go BRP or OQ. If OQ wasn't there, they would have only one option: BRP.

Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Er..because OpenQuest is a brilliant piece of d100-machinery, completely free?

And it is mentioned as an alternative to BRP in virtually any forum discussing said game?

And this is a compliment:)

Case in point: See this recent RPGnet thread: BRP vs MRQ - RPGnet Forums

The question is BRP or MRQ? The very first answer recommends OpenQuest as the best alternative.

"Tell me what you found, not what you lost" Mesopotamian proverb

__________________________________

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...