Mongoose Runequest II in 2010

[lawrence.whitaker]

I am sad to see the combat reactions go

Don't be. Combat becomes far more tactical now, and the book keeping is reduced. Furthermore, Combat Manoeuvres help compensate for a loss of reactions: you get both offensive and defensive manoeuvres.

and I don't know what I think about the new rules for Cha. A simpler fix would be to use Pow+Cha for Divine and Spirit magic rules.

I really don't understand your consternation here... if you're referring to the new Attribute tied to CHA, it has nothing to do with the magical skills. And the magic skills do use INT, POW and CHA in varying ways, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'a simpler fix'.

[Rurik]

While I liked reactions I am not all too sad to see them go. Being a long time RQ fan I am not scared of bookeeping (ahh, Sapienza Squad Sheet how I miss thee now...).

MRQ1 was supposed to have 'streamlined' combat, and did a couple things to speed up combat, but keeping track of actions/reactions ate up any gains made.

[Rurik]

Gadzooks Rurik!

Just put Hit Locations back in OQ, its not hard to do.

Either that or I'll do the donkey work and put them back in as an optional rule, which I'll post on them on the OpenQuest Companion.

Sure OpenQuest is designed with how I like to play D100 these days in mind. This does mean a few of old RQs sacred cows (Hit Locations, Tick Skill advancement, golf bags of indivdual weapons) gots slaughtered along the way, but I also made it easy enough to put those sacred cows back in the game if you miss them.

I could put them back in, yes. But then I am really just using another heavily houseruled system. Don't get me wrong - I love house rules. I make lots.

But I really would like a system to use off the shelf. I have played a houseruled MRQ that I prefer to 'off the shelf' MRQ but I also have played MRQ almost completely by the book (the revised players update/deluxe version) and it honestly plays well enough.

It was great being able to tell someone they could just download the SRD (especially DirkD's DeluxeSRD). I was really hoping (and expecting honestly) that MRQ2 would fix a lot of the problems of MRQ1 and have an SRD. I'm pretty bummed there is not one.

With there being no MRQ SRD I don't really have a BRP based open system with Hit Locations to turn to. I could put my own together based on the MRQ SRD/OpenQuest (and may still) but do we really need another d100 variant?

D100Rules sounds promising, but it also sounds a ways off.

[p_clapham]

Regarding the Combat reactions. Prior to MRQ1 I used the Nephilium rules for combat actions. So when MRQ1 came out, I thought the characters were underpowered combat action wise, untill I realized they had an equal number of defense actions as offensive actions.

As far as Cha based attribute, I don't know the details on it, and will reserve any critique untill I get the book in hand. By a

simpler fix I was refering to the issue of Charisma being a dump stat in MRQ1. I felt in making Pow+Cha equalling a starting characters Divine and Spirit magic, it would create more of a demand for Cha in game. Further it's thematically apropriate, as petioning gods and spirits depend just as much on strength of will as they do strength of personality.

Come to think of it, in past games I've considered having Magic points equal Pow+Cha divided by two, just like hit points.

Don't be. Combat becomes far more tactical now, and the book keeping is reduced. Furthermore, Combat Manoeuvres help compensate for a loss of reactions: you get both offensive and defensive manoeuvres.

I really don't understand your consternation here... if you're referring to the new Attribute tied to CHA, it has nothing to do with the magical skills. And the magic skills do use INT, POW and CHA in varying ways, so I'm not sure what you mean by 'a simpler fix'.

[Thalaba]

But I really would like a system to use off the shelf.

Everybody want this, and almost nobody will get it.

Pretty much everybody who plays games in the BRP family wants something just a little different from the next person. The only way to get your perfect BRP game off the shelf, sadly, is to write it yourself and put it on the shelf. Either that, or stick with something like BRP that can be tailored to many people's tastes. It is both a strength and a weakness of the system, I think. BRP really is a game for self-starters and do-it-yourselfers. I think you yourself pointed out in the other thread that was a reason it didn't attract more people.

[lawrence.whitaker]

simpler fix I was refering to the issue of Charisma being a dump stat in MRQ1. I felt in making Pow+Cha equalling a starting characters Divine and Spirit magic, it would create more of a demand for Cha in game. Further it's thematically apropriate, as petioning gods and spirits depend just as much on strength of will as they do strength of personality.

Okay - I see where you're coming from now.

I think CHA tends to be a dump-stat in many games, not just RQ and BRP. However, the CHA-based attribute isn't the only way of curing this problem. You'll find that CHA forms the basis of several magical skills and is directly influential in Pact.

[Sunsword]

With there being no MRQ SRD I don't really have a BRP based open system with Hit Locations to turn to. I could put my own together based on the MRQ SRD/OpenQuest (and may still) but do we really need another d100 variant?

D100Rules sounds promising, but it also sounds a ways off.

Aw c'mon, the MRQ(I) SRD isn't gone. And what's the point of OpenQuest being open, if you don't add to it? Do it!

As I've been out of touch, what is the D100Rules?

[p_clapham]

Interestingly enough:D, it was the pact rules from the recent Elric rules that I got the idea from.

Quite looking forward to the new rules set. I've been a long time fan of the runequest and brp system. The changes outlined in S&P 75, sound dead on. And while Mongoose isn't able to to produce the new Conan book with the upcoming rules, that doesn't stop me from running Hyperborian Fantasy with MRQ II. :thumb:

Okay - I see where you're coming from now.

I think CHA tends to be a dump-stat in many games, not just RQ and BRP. However, the CHA-based attribute isn't the only way of curing this problem. You'll find that CHA forms the basis of several magical skills and is directly influential in Pact.

[Atgxtg]

I

With there being no MRQ SRD I don't really have a BRP based open system with Hit Locations to turn to. I could put my own together based on the MRQ SRD/OpenQuest (and may still) but do we really need another d100 variant?

Well, there was that rough draft that I sent you to look over two years ago. Did you ever read it?

[SDLeary]

Okay - I see where you're coming from now.

I think CHA tends to be a dump-stat in many games, not just RQ and BRP. However, the CHA-based attribute isn't the only way of curing this problem. You'll find that CHA forms the basis of several magical skills and is directly influential in Pact.

WOOOO! This sounds like we might actually get Shaman that are animists rather than spell tossers!

SDLeary

[Pete Nash]

WOOOO! This sounds like we might actually get Shaman that are animists rather than spell tossers!

Spirit magic is now proper animism. Shamans use spirits rather than casting spells, although they can use Common Magic like any other person if they wish.

[lawrence.whitaker]

WOOOO! This sounds like we might actually get Shaman that are animists rather than spell tossers!

One the characters in my playtest game for RQII is a Praxian shaman and he's as far removed from a traditional spellcaster as you can get, but still incredibly potent in the way he uses his spirits.

[rust]

I rarely use Runequest, except to mine it for ideas for my own BRP-based

system and settings.

The Runequest material I use most often is RQ Empires and RQ Guilds, Fac-

tions & Cults, because their systems can easily be adapted to all kinds of

fantasy and historical settings, and they cover subjects that are treated

not at all or not as good by other games.

After my experience with those two books I was thinking about buying mo-

re of the Mongoose Runequest material, but now I am a bit confused:

Will Runequest II be fully compatible with Empires and Guilds, Factions &

Cults (in which case I will probably buy the core book), or will there be new

and less or not compatible versions of Empires and Guilds, Factions & Cults

(in which case I would hesitate to buy a new version of the same books

plus the new core book) ?

[lawrence.whitaker]

Will Runequest II be fully compatible with Empires and Guilds, Factions &

Cults (in which case I will probably buy the core book), or will there be new

and less or not compatible versions of Empires and Guilds, Factions & Cults

(in which case I would hesitate to buy a new version of the same books

plus the new core book) ?

It remains fully compatible. There will be a revised RQ Empires which will take into account some of the changes to the core rules, but the essentials will be unchanged. I'll also be extending its content to include more character options. No plans at the moment to do the same with G,F&C, but that doesn't mean there won't be a revision.

[rust]

Thank you for the info.

[Rurik]

It remains fully compatible. There will be a revised RQ Empires which will take into account some of the changes to the core rules, but the essentials will be unchanged. I'll also be extending its content to include more character options. No plans at the moment to do the same with G,F&C, but that doesn't mean there won't be a revision.

Will there be errata in some cases like Empires to bring original copies in line with MRQ2 updated copies?

If the changes you describe for Empires are as minimal as they sound an errata for it should be simple enough. It doesn't sound like they warrant buying a whole new copy but also purchasers of the the original book shouldn't be locked out of the updates.

I'm noy suggesting this for all reprints - obviously the changes for the Cults Books and the Glorantha Book/Players Guide sound too extensive for simple errata, and the new books will warrant a new purchase. But for books that get minor updates errata will be nice - especially for those of us who bought most of the originals and are facing re-buying a fair amount of material.

[Rurik]

Well, there was that rough draft that I sent you to look over two years ago. Did you ever read it?

I did, but it was a while ago. I'll look it up again, as I recall it had some pretty solid ideas.

I have my own houserules for MRQ1 that I am pretty happy with and could easily put together.

I still prefer to be able to point someone to an established ruleset they can get freely or at least cheaply. While I prefer my houseruled MRQ to by the book MRQ (duh - they're my rules) I was perfectly happy running PBP games with the MRQ SRD.

[Rurik]

As I've been out of touch, what is the D100Rules?

Some coming ruleset by a guy who some say is a Beetle but I really think he's just a Troll. Goes by the name of Trifletraxor or something like that.

Details here.

Also, don't forget to vote for the trollkin to die in the poll in my sig!

[Baron]

I fell in love with Glorantha, Prax/Pavis, and RQ2 in the early 80's. I didn't like RQ3 and took a pass on the line after buying the core rules. I went and bought Hero Wars and several books when they were released, but was massively disappointed and they sit on the shelf. The reviews of MRQ led me to conclude that it was far from the game I loved, and also apparently set in a different age altogether, so I let them slide by. What do the grognards say? Should I be interested in this MRQ2? I appreciate your opinions.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

You'll just have to wait until we all buy a copy next year and review it!

[frogspawner]

I fell in love with Glorantha, Prax/Pavis, and RQ2 in the early 80's... Should I be interested in this MRQ2?

Have you seen the preview...?

Signs & Portents 75 with the Runequest II preview by Lawrence Whitaker can now be downloaded from the Mongoose website:

Mongoose Publishing : <lie snipped>

It made me quite enthusiastic. But now they seem to be back-tracking somewhat and it may not be the return to a more RQ2-style combat that I had hoped for, after all. Loz/Pete seem to have done good things with combat manoeuvres and the various types of magic, though.

However, it's clearly still not the true Glorantha setting, just the newly-made-up "2nd Age" stuff. But then, even the HeroWars/Quest "3rd Age" stuff isn't proper Glorantha anymore, either... ;-(

[GianniVacca]

However, it's clearly still not the true Glorantha setting, just the newly-made-up "2nd Age" stuff.

I understand the 2nd Age Pavis book has been written in close co-operation with Moon Design.

But then, even the HeroWars/Quest "3rd Age" stuff isn't proper Glorantha anymore, either... ;-(

I really didn't like the HW and HQ books. But frankly I am enthusiastic about the HQ2 stuff. I have played two Sartar games at the Chimeriades convention and it felt like the good old RQ2 days!

Apparently only games ending in -2 (RQ2, HQ2, MRQ2) are any good

[RosenMcStern]

Loz/Pete seem to have done good things with combat manoeuvres and the various types of magic, though.

You now have four types of magic, and the combat rules are great! You may still find BRP a better fit for your personal taste, but this ruleset is very good.

But then, even the HeroWars/Quest "3rd Age" stuff isn't proper Glorantha anymore, either... ;-(

Buy Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes. It is absolutely true to the RQ2/3 spirit of Glorantha - lots of cultural details, but nothing so overwhelming as to be unplayable. And it is almost systemless, so you can use it with RuneQuest.

[dragonewt]

Buy Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes. It is absolutely true to the RQ2/3 spirit of Glorantha - lots of cultural details, but nothing so overwhelming as to be unplayable. And it is almost systemless, so you can use it with RuneQuest.

Someone just asked me what I want for Christmas. I said I don't know. After reading this, now I know. :thumb:

[Pete Nash]

It made me quite enthusiastic. But now they seem to be back-tracking somewhat and it may not be the return to a more RQ2-style combat that I had hoped for, after all. Loz/Pete seem to have done good things with combat manoeuvres and the various types of magic, though.

Back-tracking? :confused: Is that all the thanks I get for including a frog totem in the article... Yes, I did have you in mind when I wrote that part.