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2 minutes ago, Mameluco said:

It's kind of funny that RQG INT is becoming equivalent to D&D INT, a dump stat unless you're a wizard.

Partially a result of making CHA as the primary stat which governs the number of Spirit Spells one can 'know.

BTW, Int is not a dump stat for any character in D&D who wishes to have some skills, but this is not the place to discuss this 馃檪

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I agree.聽 The natural limit for remembering Sorcery spells should be INT, not Free INT.聽 But, I like the idea that knowing spirit magic reduces your effective INT as that "connection" to the spirit wo

Indeed we spent several minutes of our session Zero trying to interpret that the text on the spell cost.聽 The Tables clearly show un-mastered manipulation costing double, and the example shows what ha

I think experienced sorcerers will have created inscriptions for all the spells they know so they can use their full INT to cast them.

51 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

BTW, Int is not a dump stat for any character in D&D who wishes to have some skills, but this is not the place to discuss this 馃檪

I'll update my comment to: "5e D&D INT". 馃檪

But I like that spirit magic is limited by your CHA.

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4 minutes ago, Mameluco said:

But I like that spirit magic is limited by your CHA.

I like spirit magic limited by CHA, but I don't like INT not counting for magic (except Free INT). I am considering either to count both CHA and INT in the Magic category modifier, or add a Sorcery category modifier that replace CHA by INT. I will need to test it but I will probably take the first in order to have the same rules for all characters.

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23 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I like spirit magic limited by CHA, but I don't like INT not counting for magic (except Free INT). I am considering either to count both CHA and INT in the Magic category modifier, or add a Sorcery category modifier that replace CHA by INT. I will need to test it but I will probably take the first in order to have the same rules for all characters.

CHA limiting spirit magic makes sense. CHA also limits how many spirits you can have bound. INT used to be an important stat for modifiers, and getting skill increases once skills got over 100% (or maybe this was just a house rule we used). Now, unless we are talking sorcery, it seems like dump. Seems like the only reason to have it is to put another limit on sorcery. And, yes sorcery is a the realm of the Logic, so INT should be the prime guide. That is fine, but the mechanics are not that great so far.

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1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Partially a result of making CHA as the primary stat which governs the number of Spirit Spells one can 'know.

BTW, Int is not a dump stat for any character in D&D who wishes to have some skills, but this is not the place to discuss this 馃檪

yeah, technically any stat can be a dump stat depending on your build. 聽That said, Int is such component of skill bonuses, and for idea rolls to get characters back on track of the adventure. Int is such a great stat.

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5 hours ago, resurrected duck said:

With RQG, INT provides skill bonuses, but it is always shadowed by POW in the tables, so that it is almost always better to put the points in POW instead.

Huh? Magic is the only category for which POW is a primary modifier, INT gives you primary bonus in FOUR categories. It's the best stat for category modifiers, in terms of how many it affects as a primary.

If you want to get your skills over 100, which is all about the category modifier, INT is the go-to stat. After that, you go for DEX, CHA or POW depending on whether you value Agility, Communication, or Magic the most. DEX is clear winner for second place as it gives聽Agility and Manipulation, which are solid "staying alive" categories.

And maintaining a POW of 17 is inefficient as you have a low chance of improvement. Much better to have INT 17 and POW 13, as you then have TWICE the chance of succeeding on a POW gain roll.

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And maintaining a POW of 17 is inefficient as you have a low chance of improvement. Much better to have INT 17 and POW 13, as you then have TWICE the chance of succeeding on aPOW gain roll.

Inefficient in terms of POW gain, yes. In terms of character survivability, its a must. Know you GMs gaming style.

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10 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

And maintaining a POW of 17 is inefficient as you have a low chance of improvement. Much better to have INT 17 and POW 13, as you then have TWICE the chance of succeeding on a POW gain roll.

If you hit 21 POW, you have plenty of opportunities to sacrifice them. Get 8 Rune points and go back to POW 13 before your next POW gain roll if you feel so but note that means a -40% in your POW vs POW roll (am I correct there?) next game unless you are a Rune lord. It also decreases your hit points, and I am not even talking about magic points. And it decreases all your skill bonuses by 10% (except for magic聽 -15%, and stealth, +10%). That's a huge loss in my humble opinion.

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14 minutes ago, resurrected duck said:

...And it decreases all your skill bonuses by 10% (except for magic聽 -15%, and stealth, +10%). That's a huge loss in my humble opinion.

True, it is only secondary for most, but a POW of 17 gives you at least +5 to everything (except Stealth). 21 is a never-going-to-happen thing for most people, so I don't count that as much, but if you can get it (with shamanic soul expansion!), +10 to everything is sweet.

Overall, though, I feel that the down side of 17 POW having a low chance of improvement is not worth it.

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1 minute ago, PhilHibbs said:

True, it is only secondary for most, but a POW of 17 gives you at least +5 to everything (except Stealth). 21 is a never-going-to-happen thing for most people, so I don't count that as much, but if you can get it (with shamanic soul expansion!), +10 to everything is sweet.

Overall, though, I feel that the down side of 17 POW having a low chance of improvement is not worth it.

Its a trade off. You聽need an 18 POW聽to be a priest (and get +20% once there). Much easier to get from 17 to 18 then from 13.

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1 minute ago, PhilHibbs said:

Overall, though, I feel that the down side of 17 POW having a low chance of improvement is not worth it.

i think the target聽 pow strategy is "what do you do with pow at this time"

you want to create a big rune pool ? go 13, each gain is sacrificied

you have an enough rune pool ? => 17 minimum

you are an enchanter go 13+ the cost of your next enchant.

you are a sorcerer or shaman or ... in adventure => 17 minimum

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INT is long-term important for getting exceptional skills. With POW, whatever level you settle for (13 early to collect Rune Points, increasing towards聽18 for Priest/Godtalker/Shaman aspirations makes sense to me) is mostly independent of聽what you roll. I would much rather start out with 17/13 than 13/17 INT/POW.

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1 hour ago, Akh么rahil said:

I would much rather start out with 17/13 than 13/17 INT/POW.

Especially true because it is difficult to go from 13 to 17 POW, but nearly impossible to go from 13 to 17 INT without being a runelord (and spending at least 4 POW to replace the Rune Points you loose with the DI).

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28 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Especially true because it is difficult to go from 13 to 17 POW, but nearly impossible to go from 13 to 17 INT without being a runelord (and spending at least 4 POW to replace the Rune Points you loose with the DI).

Can you raise non-raisables? It's not clear either way, I think.

"Divine intervention can be used to raise a characteristic by
1 point, but no characteristic can be raised above its normal
maximum, as described on page 418."

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It is not forbidden, so it is permitted. Max human value for human INT is 21, so you can raise with DI up to 21. Going from 13 to 21 needs 8 DI, so if you are a Runelord and have more than 10RP, you need 8 POW to replace the 8 RP lost.

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11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

If you want to get your skills over 100, which is all about the category modifier, INT is the go-to stat. After that, you go for DEX, CHA or POW depending on whether you value Agility, Communication, or Magic the most. DEX is clear winner for second place as it gives聽Agility and Manipulation, which are solid "staying alive" categories.

What you said here, and @Akh么rahiland @Kloster, but just adding the detail that CHA is the easiest stat to increase in game(wear flashy jewellery), followed by POW (6 times per year).

DEX is equal to STR & CON for improving (barring the limit).

INT is arguably the hardest.聽

Therefore, almost completely regardless of character and role, I'd make a character with a high INT.

Because, the game isn't really about the starting character, it's about what you've become a few years later.

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10 hours ago, Akh么rahil said:

Can you raise non-raisables? It's not clear either way, I think.

yes we can !

proof:

1) sorcery enhance INT spell: means that Runes (the "primitive" powers, not the signs) are able to increase INT

2) Yelmalio gift #8: means that Gods are able to increase INT

3) Yelmalio gift #7+#8: means that Gods have no need to own the rune behind a characteristic to raise a聽 characterisic

4) divine intervention are ... well from the gods, and the gods are able to raise Int

5) divine intervention by raw says you can raise characteristics, without exception

and probably the most consistent of all

6) French Desperate WindChild says yes you can 馃槈

Edited by French Desperate WindChild
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4 hours ago, metcalph said:

But you would allow Storm Bull DI to lower INT?

4 hours ago, Akh么rahil said:

For when you can鈥檛 lower it quickly enough just through all the drinking?

I don't know how I would manage storm bull facing these requests...

lower INT... or Lower CON to accelerate the beer effect

big issue

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