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4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Thanks Darius, we have (my gaming group) now had two occasions to get together and celebrate (one the adventurers were even feted and one was Yule) and I have been trying to let them know what they can accomplish at these events. If fact I think I have mentioned all that you list here, to no avail. Well, I have now posted the above for them to consider for the next time they together (sacred time) and I hope they follow your notes if not mine. 

Look, if you want to engage them with a tribal moot, it might be easier than that.  I hope, for example, that you have provided them with a stable of friendly or related NPCs who could potentially choose to be involved in the moot. 

If, for example, they are warrior types, they can be rounded up by their chief or King and told that the Moot needs extra guards and they are being "drafted" (for some small pay of course).  This potentially means that they will have to break up brawls, shut down romantic rivalries, oversee transfers of treasures, oversee duels at dawn, catch thieves, catch spies, catch assassins, stop raids, guard the granaries, mind the herds, run messages, etc.

Unmarried characters may face family bullying to acquire a partner. Families may also potentially want to buy livestock, and will choose their times carefully (Early moot to pay premium and get the best livestock, late moot to buy the worst but cheapest).

Their temples may have jobs for them to do as well, such as delivering covert messages, guard duties, politics.  No priest gets the job because they are an idiot, so the task will be measured against the initiate's skills.  If they aren't much for talking, they won't get political tasks for example.

It should also be pointed out that this is a time when potentially the characters might be recruited by another Clan in need of more weapon thanes.

All through the moot, you should mention how the fresh bunting and flowers gradually get more dirtied and wilted, and that the fair melodies of the minstrels gradually becomes a din of competing songs, and the streets of the Tula are turned into a slop of mud, even over the cobbles, and how the garbage begins to pile up, and slowly but surely the latrines begin to be filled and stink, but not to overflow.  You can entertain them with a conversation with a latrine digger who will explain the logistics of the count of heads versus the number of latrines that need digging to a given depth, and how the latrines are never put in the same place 2 years running etc, and how Tribal moots keep them in coin.

 

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The Tribal Moot may well take longer than a week, depending on how large and important the clan is.  Depending on how frequent or infrequent they are there may be a lot of backlog of business to atten

Another few ideas:    Gimme My Treasure Back: Two (or more) clans both arguably have a decent claim to a magical treasure of great importance to local agriculture/war/spirit magic/amusing p

The most anyone travels to a Tribal Assembly is about 40 km (from Lizard Kicks Inn to Halfort or from the far side of Two Sisters to Clearwine). In most cases, the maximum is around 30 km. In many tri

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32 minutes ago, Jeff said:

That last piece is very important in understanding the dynamics in most tribal assembly.  

So if you want to think about what happens at the tribal assembly - you have the militia mustered, led to the assembly place by their chiefs. The militia - along with any other free members of the tribe - meet in assembly with the king and the tribal council, who offer sacrifices to Orlanth Rex and the tribal guardian (wyter). Disputes are raised and resolved, but a big part of what happens is a ceremony showing the connection between the assembled people and their tribal leaders. The assembled people then do their militia service or labor for the benefit of the tribe. What is important is this is the one time of the year all the free members of the tribe can assemble AS the tribe - it is a sort of political ceremony, that reinforces their communal identities as members of the tribe.

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28 minutes ago, Darius West said:

All through the moot, you should mention how the fresh bunting and flowers gradually get more dirtied and wilted, and that the fair melodies of the minstrels gradually becomes a din of competing songs, and the streets of the Tula are turned into a slop of mud, even over the cobbles, and how the garbage begins to pile up, and slowly but surely the latrines begin to be filled and stink, but not to overflow.  You can entertain them with a conversation with a latrine digger who will explain the logistics of the count of heads versus the number of latrines that need digging to a given depth, and how the latrines are never put in the same place 2 years running etc, and how Tribal moots keep them in coin.

Well, that certainly sounds like my experience of festivals. Just the minstrels have electronic amplification now. The latrine digger will no doubt have strong opinions about not putting inappropriate things in the latrines and only using the bronze age equivalent of single ply toilet paper. 

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1 hour ago, Darius West said:

All through the moot, you should mention how the fresh bunting and flowers gradually get more dirtied and wilted, and that the fair melodies of the minstrels gradually becomes a din of competing songs, and the streets of the Tula are turned into a slop of mud, even over the cobbles, and how the garbage begins to pile up, and slowly but surely the latrines begin to be filled and stink, but not to overflow.

It's worth noting that the Assembly Grounds, Assembly Hill (1) and The Temple of the Tribe (19) are outside the fort, 1 km north.  The several thousand people present aren't going to fit in the fort, although it does say that "People stay with kinfolk, in inns in Clearwine Fort, or set up tents around the hill." So it's much more of an outdoor event. With the Rex Statue present, Leika is going to have a tent there too.

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33 minutes ago, David Scott said:

It's worth noting that the Assembly Grounds, Assembly Hill (1) and The Temple of the Tribe (19) are outside the fort, 1 km north.  The several thousand people present aren't going to fit in the fort, although it does say that "People stay with kinfolk, in inns in Clearwine Fort, or set up tents around the hill." So it's much more of an outdoor event. With the Rex Statue present, Leika is going to have a tent there too.

If you assume every free member of the tribe shows up, that's a little over 6100 people. I personally imagine it normally about half that or less.

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2 hours ago, Jeff said:

The assembled people then do their militia service or labor for the benefit of the tribe. What is important is this is the one time of the year all the free members of the tribe can assemble AS the tribe - it is a sort of political ceremony, that reinforces their communal identities as members of the tribe.

So, it's a kind of 'Landsgemeinde'?

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1 hour ago, Kloster said:

So, it's a kind of 'Landsgemeinde'?

that is a good question.

And more specific, what is the decision power of people? (not the chieftains/nobles/priests, but the free people)

Can they speak (when not asked by the chieftains or king) ?

can they critisize their leaders decisions ? 

Can they refuse their leaders decisions (as a community) ?

Can they vote in some case ?

 

I m not very clear on what happend in irl old cultures/civilizations which had some "moot" or "assembly", so I have nothing to compare .

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9 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

that is a good question.

And more specific, what is the decision power of people? (not the chieftains/nobles/priests, but the free people)

Can they speak (when not asked by the chieftains or king) ?

can they critisize their leaders decisions ? 

Can they refuse their leaders decisions (as a community) ?

Can they vote in some case ?

 

I m not very clear on what happend in irl old cultures/civilizations which had some "moot" or "assembly", so I have nothing to compare .

Its the Orlanthi so the answer is "it depends." Sometimes the assembly has the real power, sometimes the tribal king has the real power. Sometimes the assembly is raucous and uncontrollable; sometimes it is just a rubber stamp. Sometimes the assembly threatens to kill the leaders; other times they tolerate no dissent. Sometimes the assembly tells the leaders no; more often the assembly and the leaders are in some sort of agreement. Sometimes votes are counted; more often it is based on shouts and spear-waving. 

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6 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Its the Orlanthi so the answer is "it depends." Sometimes the assembly has the real power, sometimes the tribal king has the real power. Sometimes the assembly is raucous and uncontrollable; sometimes it is just a rubber stamp. Sometimes the assembly threatens to kill the leaders; other times they tolerate no dissent. Sometimes the assembly tells the leaders no; more often the assembly and the leaders are in some sort of agreement. Sometimes votes are counted; more often it is based on shouts and spear-waving. 

So during the reign of King Kallai Rockbuster, the Colymar assembly tended to follow whatever the king wanted. They'd gather, show off their weapons, and cheer on the king. During Leika's first reign, it was more unruly and confrontational. There were more obvious divisions within the assembly, and they were more vocal. Ultimately a faction ended up forcing her out and exiling her in favour of Kallai's son Blackmor. In Leika's second reign she is much more cautious about the assembly and careful coopts it.

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Just now, Jeff said:

So during the reign of King Kallai Rockbuster, the Colymar assembly tended to follow whatever the king wanted. They'd gather, show off their weapons, and cheer on the king. During Leika's first reign, it was more unruly and confrontational. There were more obvious divisions within the assembly, and they were more vocal. Ultimately a faction ended up forcing her out and exiling her in favour of Kallai's son Blackmor. In Leika's second reign she is much more cautious about the assembly and careful coopts it.

But remember, the assembly always includes hundreds, maybe even thousands of armed militia. And most of the time, they vote by banging their weapons. So they are not a group to take lightly.

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Just now, Jeff said:

But remember, the assembly always includes hundreds, maybe even thousands of armed militia. And most of the time, they vote by banging their weapons. So they are not a group to take lightly.

And meanwhile you also have the women of the community - the priestesses, the wives, the mothers, etc. I suspect that they ululate in support or opposition, and urge on the warriors one way or another. And meanwhile the tribal council are typically some of the most magically powerful members of the community. In short, I can imagine that most assembly meetings are ceremonial, but when they go bad, they go VERY bad. And quickly.

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8 hours ago, Jeff said:

The most anyone travels to a Tribal Assembly is about 40 km (from Lizard Kicks Inn to Halfort or from the far side of Two Sisters to Clearwine). In most cases, the maximum is around 30 km. In many tribes, pretty much everyone is within 10 km of the assembly place. Even among the Colymar, most attendees travel no more than about 10 km (which means the clans around Clearwine often play a disproportionate role in the assembly). 

There's also little difference between the tribal assembly and the militia mustering.

FIRE SEASON

Fire Season is the equivalent of summer. It is mostly warm to hot, and dry, punctuated by afternoon thunderstorms with heavy but brief rains or even hail.

Militia Service

Able-bodied adults are required to perform labor or military service on behalf of the clan. Service is typically owed to the clan chieftain, who in turn owes it to the tribal king, and on to the Prince. 

Tribal Assembly

Representatives of the clans meet in assembly with their king and tribal council. This coincides with the militia gathering, and the clan militias often attend the assembly. 

Thanks Jeff! I really appreciate you giving your insight and advice into this post. 

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21 hours ago, Jeff said:

So if you want to think about what happens at the tribal assembly - you have the militia mustered, led to the assembly place by their chiefs. The militia - along with any other free members of the tribe - meet in assembly with the king and the tribal council, who offer sacrifices to Orlanth Rex and the tribal guardian (wyter). Disputes are raised and resolved, but a big part of what happens is a ceremony showing the connection between the assembled people and their tribal leaders. The assembled people then do their militia service or labor for the benefit of the tribe. What is important is this is the one time of the year all the free members of the tribe can assemble AS the tribe - it is a sort of political ceremony, that reinforces their communal identities as members of the tribe.

So this begs the question, what do the marshaled forces do when brought together? 

Training is a bit of a given, but what form does that usually take?

or does all of this really reflect something more akin to the Highland games?

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48 minutes ago, skulldixon said:

or does all of this really reflect something more akin to the Highland games?

That is exactly how I see it. Highland Games, Country Fairs, Church Fetes, Sabantui, that sort of thing.

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54 minutes ago, skulldixon said:

So this begs the question, what do the marshaled forces do when brought together? 

Training is a bit of a given, but what form does that usually take?

or does all of this really reflect something more akin to the Highland games?

 

54 minutes ago, skulldixon said:

So this begs the question, what do the marshaled forces do when brought together? 

Training is a bit of a given, but what form does that usually take?

or does all of this really reflect something more akin to the Highland games?

Sort of (the Highland Games are a Victorian creation - think more like an informal Greek gymnasia). The militia musters together and learns to fight together. They aren't drilled so much as learn how to gather together in groups, how to fight with sword and shield (this is organised by the Orlanth cult after all), how to march in groups, etc. They have foot races, wrestling matches, boxing, swimming contests, and other athletic competitions. They engage in mock single and group sparring contests, with anywhere from one to ten contestants on a side. The wealthy engage in hunts from horseback or chariot races. 

The next season, many of these same youth participate in games to honour and please the Earth Goddess. That's your real contests where you might get a wife or husband, or win some prize from the Earth Priestesses!

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23 hours ago, davecake said:

Well, that certainly sounds like my experience of festivals. Just the minstrels have electronic amplification now. The latrine digger will no doubt have strong opinions about not putting inappropriate things in the latrines and only using the bronze age equivalent of single ply toilet paper. 

Just wait until the mud brawls start. 🙂

21 hours ago, David Scott said:

It's worth noting that the Assembly Grounds, Assembly Hill (1) and The Temple of the Tribe (19) are outside the fort, 1 km north.  The several thousand people present aren't going to fit in the fort, although it does say that "People stay with kinfolk, in inns in Clearwine Fort, or set up tents around the hill." So it's much more of an outdoor event. With the Rex Statue present, Leika is going to have a tent there too.

Agreed.  So basically you now have multiple groups of political rivals all parked within a stones throw of each other, and trying to wheedle each other into deals.  At best you could describe it as a mustered army, but the level of discipline likely isn't up to that standard.  At worst it is a security nightmare scenario waiting to happen.  A single dropped lamp... 

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1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Agreed.  So basically you now have multiple groups of political rivals all parked within a stones throw of each other, and trying to wheedle each other into deals.  At best you could describe it as a mustered army, but the level of discipline likely isn't up to that standard.  At worst it is a security nightmare scenario waiting to happen.  A single dropped lamp... 

I really don't feel that's the atmosphere. It's on a sacred hill with all the leaders present and the Rex statue. As has been mentioned above, it would be more like a country fair along with Jeff's comments. There will be an occasional bust up / fight / drunken brawl of course, but nothing that will shame the honour of the clans present. 

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1 minute ago, David Scott said:

I really don't feel that's the atmosphere. It's on a sacred hill with all the leaders present and the Rex statue. As has been mentioned above, it would be more like a country fair along with Jeff's comments. There will be an occasional bust up / fight / drunken brawl of course, but nothing that will shame the honour of the clans present. 

Remember that most of those clans will be feuding, possibly for generations, with at least one other of those clans.  It is more like a political rally involving opposing political parties imo.  If there are 10 clans in the tribe, and everyone is an enemy of one of those clans and possibly tense with others, but the tribal structure is being used as a means of limiting the conflict, the hospitality of a Tribal King can be sorely taxed, and every arrangement is likely to have been seriously discussed by the various clan representatives the month prior to minimize the chances of conflict.  This is a nice family friendly affair that can turn into a rival biker gang death match at a moment's notice.

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On 3/16/2021 at 12:29 PM, Jeff said:

If you assume every free member of the tribe shows up, that's a little over 6100 people. I personally imagine it normally about half that or less.

I didn't catch this earlier. Are the tenant farmers (cottars) included or excluded in the tribal militia?

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2 hours ago, Joerg said:

I didn't catch this earlier. Are the tenant farmers (cottars) included or excluded in the tribal militia?

They might often serve as loose auxiliaries and skirmishers (and many do) - but they do not patrol or participate in the muster. They don't have the required equipment to begin with.

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On 3/13/2021 at 4:21 AM, ZedAlpha said:

Another few ideas: 

  • I’ll Make My Own Clan, with Blackjack, and Uleria Priestesses!: The most discontented stickpickers and hotheaded malcontents from many of the tribe’s clans have gathered together at the moot and declared that they’re a brand new clan. Somehow, they’ve managed to form a wyter (and an unusually strong one, at that!) and gathered the blessings of enough gods and spirits for it to be legitimate. Now, they’re threatening to leave and join a rival tribe if they aren’t placated by the King and the royal council. If they leave, they’ll take all their former clans’ secrets with them, too. But can anyone really trust these jerks? 

 

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On 3/15/2021 at 5:19 AM, Joerg said:

In Sartar this exoandry is a lot less usual than exogamy.

I am pretty sure “exoandry” is not a word. Exogamy is a word, but as Inigo Montoya said, I do not think it means what you think it means. Exogamy means outmarriage, and it refers to marriage rules that require marrying someone who is outside of one’s own social group. It applies to both men and women, and does not necessarily mean that the wife leaves her natal group to join that of her husband. Incest taboos are a form of exogamy, one that is found in pretty much every culture (broos might be a notable exception in Glorantha). The converse of exogamy is endogamy, which refers to rules that require marrying within one’s social group. Customs that require marrying within one's own religion or social class are forms of endogamy. It is possible to have marriage rules that are both exogamous and endogamous; e.g., cultural norms could dictate that one find a spouse from outside their own clan but within their tribe. The Hyorling triarchy seems to have had something along those lines: members were expected to find spouses from outside their own clan but from within the triarchy, at least until the “fish marriage” messed things up.

Whether a married couple resides with the husband’s group or the wife’s group is described by a different set of terms. Patrilocal residence, in which the couple lives with or near the husband’s parents, is the norm for most cultures. Matrilocal residence, in which the new couple lives with or near the wife’s parents, is less common, but it is nonetheless the norm for more cultures than is neolocal residence, which is when the married couple starts their own household instead of moving in with either spouse’s parents. Some matrilineal societies have avunculocal residence, in which the married couple lives with or near the husband’s maternal uncle. In avunculocal societies, sons typically join the household of their mother’s brother upon reaching adolescence, while daughters remain with their parents until they marry, at which time they join their husband in his uncle’s household. In Sartar, most tribes seem to have ambilocal residence, where the married couple may choose to live with the parents of either spouse.

Sorry if all of that is excessively pedantic. I need to occasionally use my anthropology degree, or it starts to rust (that metaphor probably does not work so well in Glorantha, except maybe among those damned Mostali and their foul death metal).

However, I came here not to dust off my lecture notes, but to ask for clarification: when does the Colymar tribal assembly occur? Fire Season makes more sense militarily, if the assembly also serves as mustering time for the militia, but the GM Adventures book clearly states that it takes place during Movement Week of Storm Season. So which is correct? Was Queen Leika exiled during the summer of 1615, before harvest time, or was she exiled at the end of the year, only a few weeks before Sacred Time? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

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23 minutes ago, wanderingelf said:

when does the Colymar tribal assembly occur? Fire Season makes more sense militarily, if the assembly also serves as mustering time for the militia, but the GM Adventures book clearly states that it takes place during Movement Week of Storm Season. So which is correct?

I've always used Fireseason (think there was old precedent for this in Thunder Rebels) as it seemed to make sense from a travel and gathering perspective.

However, Movement Week of Stormseason is the high holy day of Orlanth, and time for initiation into manhood, so there may well be large gathering then anyway that a Tribal Assembly would fit with.

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