Shargash rune spells?

[French Desperate WindChild]

34 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Yes Enclosure #1 (1997),

The Cult of Shargash by Pam Carlson & Martin Laurie, gives the cult skills as mace and spear, and gives divine magics of crush and Truespear.

Is there anything else that has origin of the mace?

I remembered I read it somewhere :

 

Quote

nitiate Membership Requirements: Standard. Cult Skills: Athletics, Dance, Lore (Military Tactics, Shargash Theology), Play Instrument (Drums), Shield, Spear, Unarmed, 1H Hammer. Cult Spells: Bludgeon, Demoralise, Fireblade, Ignite, Strength. Common Divine Magic: All. Special Divine Magic: Crush, Sinews of Shargash.

glorantha the 2nd age cults of glorantha  (volume 1),

 

[metcalph]

29 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Apparently Artmal is Tolat's nephew and together they defeated Umath, and Tolat gifted the Red Sword to Artmal so Artmal gives his worshippers True Sword.  

That's known in Teshnos.  I was just surprised the Dara Happans know of the relationship as well.  Personally I blame Sheng Seleris. 

[Darius West]

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

That's known in Teshnos.  I was just surprised the Dara Happans know of the relationship as well.  Personally I blame Sheng Seleris. 

Yeah, about that, I reckon  2 gods separated by that amount of distance winding up as the same god smacks more of godlearning than mere syncretism 😞

[soltakss]

I just assumed that Shargarsh took a mace from a conquered darkness being. He is also the Drummer, so maybe the mace is part of that.

Personally, I hope he keeps the mace, as a solar deity wielding a darkness weapon just annoys players of Yelmalians.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

as a solar deity wielding a darkness weapon just annoys players of Yelmalians

As much (but not more) than a solar weapon wielded by a darkness deity.

[Darius West]

On 3/17/2021 at 6:44 PM, soltakss said:

I thought he had Crush as well, he does in my games.

Shargash did have Crush in the previous write-up in The Enclosure.  Not so in RQ:GoG.  It's removal is a bit of a shame.  I enjoyed the whole "Gilgamesh on PCP" aesthetic that a berserk sun worshipper with a spear and a club invoked.

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Shargash did have Crush in the previous write-up in The Enclosure.  Not so in RQ:GoG.  It's removal is a bit of a shame.  I enjoyed the whole "Gilgamesh on PCP" aesthetic that a berserk sun worshipper with a spear and a club invoked.

As it was a fan version, it was unlikely to have formed the basis for the Cults of Glorantha version. 

[dumuzid]

On 3/17/2021 at 4:00 PM, metcalph said:

That's known in Teshnos.  I was just surprised the Dara Happans know of the relationship as well.  Personally I blame Sheng Seleris.

The Dara Happans know that Shargash and the Blue Moon are siblings.  It is a little surprising that Dara Happans know about Artmal, but maybe there's stories about him visiting Mernita that haven't come to light yet.

[Alex]

1 hour ago, dumuzid said:

The Dara Happans know that Shargash and the Blue Moon are siblings.  It is a little surprising that Dara Happans know about Artmal, but maybe there's stories about him visiting Mernita that haven't come to light yet.

Bit of a head-scratcher, all right.  If this were Stafford Library territory, we'd doubtless have just learned of Madeupfunkypeloriansoundingname, little-known and little independently worshipped stabby Blue Moon deity and Annilla-relative, who is essentially for most purposes a Shargash subcult.  These days we're more likely to cut to the masks-of-the-same-deity chase, and call it an associated cult of a normally geographically very different god.

[dumuzid]

I've theorized elsewhere of a bat-troll-Artmal worshiped by the Blue Moon Plateau trolls

[Alex]

7 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

I've theorized elsewhere of a bat-troll-Artmal worshiped by the Blue Moon Plateau trolls

It's a dirty bat-troll job, but somebatty's got to bat-troll-do it!

There's the names Quatanara and Mahaquata (t)rolling around, or "Lesilla, or a daughter of hers", but I wouldn't take that cheque to the canon bank in any real confidence of being able to cash it.

Another possible case of "same god(dess), different mask, different name", as per usual.

[dumuzid]

I dunno, some art posted ages ago from the pending Gods book showed Bozkatang with Mahaquata flapping around him, i think there's still canon support for Mahaquata and Lesilla being at least permutations of the same deity.  I've always been quite fond of how the trolls found celestial castoffs like the Blue Moon and Black Sun and raised them back up as powers to help them fight the Chaos War.

The Blue Moon secrets held by the trolls should be key to unfolding elements of the Hero Wars like the return of the Zaranistangi and the quest for the bones of Artmal.  They certainly are in my campaign.

[Darius West]

20 hours ago, David Scott said:

As it was a fan version, it was unlikely to have formed the basis for the Cults of Glorantha version. 

Yeah, the Enclosure version of Shargash didn't include the whole Shargash/Tolat/Red Planet issue, but it was a more entertaining read, and in many ways grounded Alkoth and its role in Dara Happa more clearly within the literature. 

I personally like and enjoy regional granularity in cults.  I am not interested in the fact that Shargash and Tolat are the same god, I am interested in how the cult of Alkoth differs from the cult of the Amazons. Clearly they should have different associated cults, variance in the mythology, and differing forms of worship and standards of admission.  Yes there will be similarities, but they are in essence quite different cults, in the same way Japanese Hidden Christianity was massively different to the Roman Catholicism that began it. 

For this reason I really enjoyed the Enclosure version of Shargash, and was a bit underwhelmed by the RQ:GoG version by comparison. 

[Dogboy]

On 9/23/2021 at 11:11 AM, David Scott said:

As it was a fan version, it was unlikely to have formed the basis for the Cults of Glorantha version. 

As it was Jeff & Neils fanzine, which likely used stuff from their house campaign, I can't but giggle at this. It wouldn't be the first time their fan-works became canon.
 

 

On 9/24/2021 at 8:11 AM, Darius West said:

Yeah, the Enclosure version of Shargash didn't include the whole Shargash/Tolat/Red Planet issue, but it was a more entertaining read, and in many ways grounded Alkoth and its role in Dara Happa more clearly within the literature. 

I personally like and enjoy regional granularity in cults.  I am not interested in the fact that Shargash and Tolat are the same god, I am interested in how the cult of Alkoth differs from the cult of the Amazons. Clearly they should have different associated cults, variance in the mythology, and differing forms of worship and standards of admission.  Yes there will be similarities, but they are in essence quite different cults, in the same way Japanese Hidden Christianity was massively different to the Roman Catholicism that began it. 

For this reason I really enjoyed the Enclosure version of Shargash, and was a bit underwhelmed by the RQ:GoG version by comparison. 

Yeah, I quite liked their version, and and agree regional granularity is important, Tolat and Shargash are 2 completely different cults. Sure they worship aspects of the same god, but without someone actually binding them together they will be very different cults in my Glorantha.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Dogboy said:

As it was Jeff & Neils fanzine, which likely used stuff from their house campaign, I can't but giggle at this. It wouldn't be the first time their fan-works became canon.

Having been involved in the discussions that led to the Shargash cult writeup, I can say that it was developed from our interpretations of GRoY, FS, the Alkoth book, and other material.   I don't recall if Pam or Martin L. ever used explicitly in a campaign - we were largely trying to flesh out what a cult and culture of Alkoth might be.  It definitely included our ideas of Red, Green, and Black Kings.

 

[Dogboy]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Having been involved in the discussions that led to the Shargash cult writeup, I can say that it was developed from our interpretations of GRoY, FS, the Alkoth book, and other material.   I don't recall if Pam or Martin L. ever used explicitly in a campaign - we were largely trying to flesh out what a cult and culture of Alkoth might be.  It definitely included our ideas of Red, Green, and Black Kings.

 

I stand corrected.

[Dogboy]

On 9/24/2021 at 8:11 AM, Darius West said:

Yes there will be similarities, but they are in essence quite different cults, in the same way Japanese Hidden Christianity was massively different to the Roman Catholicism that began it. 

For this reason I really enjoyed the Enclosure version of Shargash, and was a bit underwhelmed by the RQ:GoG version by comparison. 

I agree, I can see them as two quite different cults. The reasoning for no RuneLords(ladies) makes sense for the Alkothi Shargashi, as the Lunar authorities have muzzled the cult, so it acts as purely foot-soldiers or funerary priests, but surely the Tolatings wouldn't have that prohibition.

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Having been involved in the discussions that led to the Shargash cult writeup, I can say that it was developed from our interpretations of GRoY, FS, the Alkoth book, and other material.   I don't recall if Pam or Martin L. ever used explicitly in a campaign - we were largely trying to flesh out what a cult and culture of Alkoth might be.  It definitely included our ideas of Red, Green, and Black Kings.

 

Yeah, and with perfect 20/20 hindsight, it was completely over the top. Shargash in Peloria - especially by the Third Age - is a second tier cult. 75k cultists tops. Now that's a lot - but comparable to the Antirius, Lowfires or Polaris, rather than much smaller than cults like Yelm or Lodril, let alone the Seven Mothers (which has more than ten ties the cult of Shargash). He's a war god and a city god, and by the current Wane his cult has been forced to accept not only the supremacy of Yelm, but of the Red Goddess. Alkoth is definitely comparatively diminished in 1625 compared to 225.

This of course was part of the problem posed by GRoY - it was filled with cool information, but was sent some 14 centuries ago. 

[Dogboy]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

Yeah, and with perfect 20/20 hindsight, it was completely over the top. Shargash in Peloria - especially by the Third Age - is a second tier cult. 75k cultists tops. Now that's a lot - but comparable to the Antirius, Lowfires or Polaris, rather than much smaller than cults like Yelm or Lodril, let alone the Seven Mothers (which has more than ten ties the cult of Shargash). He's a war god and a city god, and by the current Wane his cult has been forced to accept not only the supremacy of Yelm, but of the Red Goddess. Alkoth is definitely comparatively diminished in 1625 compared to 225.

This of course was part of the problem posed by GRoY - it was filled with cool information, but was sent some 14 centuries ago. 

Yup, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Jose]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:28 AM, Darius West said:

Ceteris paribus, the RuneQuest: Gods of Glorantha advanced copy offers the following:

Berserker, Dismiss Fire elemental (S & M), Summon Fire Elemental (S & M), Summon Demon (S, M, &L).

Alkor gives Cremate Dead, Artmal gives True Sword, Anilla (Shargash's sister)gives Absorption, Hastatus gives True Spear,  Lodril gives Fire Spear, Oslira gives Bless Crops (Rice), Yelm gives Sunspear.

What spell does he give to oslira? 

[Darius West]

11 hours ago, Jose said:

What spell does he give to oslira? 

Fear (p95).

[Jose]

7 hours ago, Darius West said:

Fear (p95).

I thought about shield, it must be yelm or Lodril who give it to her

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Jose said:

I thought about shield, it must be yelm or Lodril who give it to her

She does not get Shield from any associated deity.  She is not a fighter after all but associated with the Fertility Rune.

[Godlearner]

6 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

She does not get Shield from any associated deity.  She is not a fighter after all but associated with the Fertility Rune.

You do not need to be a fighter to benefit from this spell, especially if you receive it from an associated cult. Example: Ernalda.

[Scotty]

2 hours ago, Jose said:

I thought about shield, it must be yelm or Lodril who give it to her

No shield from any associates. Lodril is worshiped as Mohenjar and so gives Support, Yelm gives Cloud Clear. Engizi has no access to shield either (except of course Fireshield)